I am sure most of you have not been paying attention, but PR is a perfect example of what will happen if we keep going down the entitlement path:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/busin...-debt.html
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/C...5-10-19-31
The first one is fascinating, and rather funny that the path the Times wants us to take is exactly the same as the one that is failing in PR (i.e. Government sponsored everything, they have had Socialized Medicine/single payer since 93 etc.). Anyway, we need some new stuff here, and this is a developing and very interesting topic.
Especially in regards to the Title 3 bankruptcy. IN the past, no US territory was allowed to do this. Currently no state is allowed to do it. But the pattern of changing the laws to allow PR to do it in 2016 could definately repeat itself, especially with the most teetering of states (Illinois etc).
I work with several Puerto Ricans who say they love their island but the powers-that-be down there make the stupidest decisions. Closing Roosevelt Roads being one of them. From what I gather, politicians in P.R. fancy themselves as mini-Maduros who see their role as defenders of the poor while plunging their hands elbow deep into the graft bucket. It's a vicious cycle that will never cease.
I'm sure those running California's unsustainable government into the ground will be taking notes on how to avoid responsibility and accountability when their chickens come home to roost as well.
Can't spend what you don't have. Printing money doesn't solve it. All bills come due.
Even more reasons why we need a Wall surrounding The Keys and the South Beach, Miami.
Quote:I'm sure those running California's unsustainable government into the ground will be taking notes on how to avoid responsibility and accountability when their chickens come home to roost as well.
Can't spend what you don't have. Printing money doesn't solve it. All bills come due.
California is relatively less risky as far as debt/pension funding goes etc. When I worked there for one of the UC's I took a long look at their pension funding, they have kept it pretty solvent. They are more fiscally responsible than states like NY or Illinois or Hawaii. Think more along the lines of states that have been blue for 50 years. California wasn't that way 25-30 years ago.
I think it also helps California that they have a large portions of fruits and vegetables grown there, plus silicon valley. They have a large economy, but no doubt given enough time, they too will be teetering on the edge if they continue their current path.
at this point they should force PR to become a state or leave and be solvent on their own. As a state we could control their spending a little better because right now their government has no motivation to be any form of fiscally responsible.
Become a state? Absolutely not. What a mess.
Quote:Become a state? Absolutely not. What a mess.
as a territory we are still financially supporting them yet they pay no taxes to us. essentially its an entire welfare state make them contribute or cut them out.
They've put statehood referendums up to vote in PR before. The last time it was very close to passing. If we were to adopt them as a state the expense would be huge and Puerto Ricans would have to adapt to a rule of law in which they are entirely unaccustomed and many are unwilling to accept.
Quote:California is relatively less risky as far as debt/pension funding goes etc. When I worked there for one of the UC's I took a long look at their pension funding, they have kept it pretty solvent. They are more fiscally responsible than states like NY or Illinois or Hawaii. Think more along the lines of states that have been blue for 50 years. California wasn't that way 25-30 years ago.
I think it also helps California that they have a large portions of fruits and vegetables grown there, plus silicon valley. They have a large economy, but no doubt given enough time, they too will be teetering on the edge if they continue their current path.
Despite their persistent narrative, California is in better shape than what we often hear from them.
Quote:Even more reasons why we need a Wall surrounding The Keys and the South Beach, Miami.
I may be misinterpreting you, but Puerto Ricans are US citizens. Are you suggesting we wall them out?
Quote:They've put statehood referendums up to vote in PR before. The last time it was very close to passing. If we were to adopt them as a state the expense would be huge and Puerto Ricans would have to adapt to a rule of law in which they are entirely unaccustomed and many are unwilling to accept.
I have always understood that about 1/3rd want to be a state, 1/3rd like it as is, and 1/3rd want to be completely independent. But with the mass exodus of their citizens to the US, they are already voting with their feet.
Why would they want to be a state? they have the best of both worlds right now, they don't pay federal taxes, get all of the benefits and protection of our military. It's only a bad deal for the rest of the 50 states, they should either be forced into statehood and abide by our laws and pay for their benefits or allowed to peruse their own path independent of our support.
Quote:Why would they want to be a state? they have the best of both worlds right now, they don't pay federal taxes, get all of the benefits and protection of our military. It's only a bad deal for the rest of the 50 states, they should either be forced into statehood and abide by our laws and pay for their benefits or allowed to peruse their own path independent of our support.
You can't "force" a territory to become a state, but I do agree with you that they either need to pay for benefits or become a sovereign nation. I'm also not crazy about them being able to come into the country freely. After all, they are not citizens and will soon become a burden to state and local governments.
Quote:You can't "force" a territory to become a state, but I do agree with you that they either need to pay for benefits or become a sovereign nation. I'm also not crazy about them being able to come into the country freely. After all, they are not citizens and will soon become a burden to state and local governments.
Anyone born in Puerto Rico after January 13, 1941 is considered to be a natural born citizen of the U.S.
Quote:Anyone born in Puerto Rico after January 13, 1941 is considered to be a natural born citizen of the U.S.
But not before then?
Does it work in reverse? If you chose to move to Puerto Rico from the US mainland, would that mean that you no longer need to pay income tax?
Quote:You can't "force" a territory to become a state, but I do agree with you that they either need to pay for benefits or become a sovereign nation. I'm also not crazy about them being able to come into the country freely. After all, they are not citizens and will soon become a burden to state and local governments.
Force isn't the right word but we can give them two offers statehood with all its benefits and responsibilities or complete independence
Quote:I may be misinterpreting you, but Puerto Ricans are US citizens. Are you suggesting we wall them out?
Yes -- just wall out anything that may hinder America Not Being Made Great Again.
.... when in doubt, shut it out. plus, they speak a different language and don't look like US Citizens.
... oops I better clarify that I'm being sarcastic before someone takes me seriously (JW this means you).
Quote:But not before then?
Does it work in reverse? If you chose to move to Puerto Rico from the US mainland, would that mean that you no longer need to pay income tax?
It's a bit confusing, but natives of Puerto Rico were granted citizenship in 1917. The 1941 date is when Congress established the birthright.
Residents of Puerto Rico don't pay federal income tax on earnings in Puerto Rico, but they do pay payroll taxes and federal income tax on earnings within the U.S.
Quote:Force isn't the right word but we can give them two offers statehood with all its benefits and responsibilities or complete independence
I can agree with that. However, do you do the same thing to places like Guam, American Samoa and some of the Virgin Islands?
Quote:It's a bit confusing, but natives of Puerto Rico were granted citizenship in 1917. The 1941 date is when Congress established the birthright.
Residents of Puerto Rico don't pay federal income tax on earnings in Puerto Rico, but they do pay payroll taxes and federal income tax on earnings within the U.S.
Honestly, I wasn't sure how that all worked. Does that apply to Puerto Rican natives only? As an example, say I decided to move to Puerto Rico and worked there, would I have to pay federal income taxes?