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Quote:In theory burning a flag is free speech and should be allowed.  The problem with burning the flag is most people are only doing it to incite violence and to try to make a certain segment of people mad.  It's no different than someone using racist language to a group of people to make them mad to incite violence. 

 

You now see burning of a flag done when members of both sides are clashing.  It provides a tense environment, puts police, people, the community in a more dangerous place.  If you can prevent these types of things from happening why wouldn't you?  If it was done during a peaceful protest that's one thing, but most people burning flags aren't doing it during those times.

All of this. I couldn't have said it better. And a peaceful protest is going to turn ugly when folks start burning flags. 

 

As a veteran I would like it is people wouldn't burn the flag or otherwise be disrespected. Too many people have paid the ultimate price for it to be used for purposes other than it's orginal intention. And I don't mean the flag just in it's material form but it's true symbolic form or original reason for it's existence. From wlkipedia: 

 

"The flag of the United States of America, often referred to as the American flag, is the national flag of the United States of America. It consists of thirteen equal horizontal stripes of red (top and bottom) alternating with white, with a blue rectangle in the canton (referred to specifically as the "union") bearing fifty small, white, five-pointed stars arranged in nine offset horizontal rows, where rows of six stars (top and bottom) alternate with rows of five stars. The 50 stars on the flag represent the 50 states of the United States of America, and the 13 stripes represent the thirteen British colonies that declared independence from the Kingdom of Great Britain, and became the first states in the US."
There is nothing oppressive about that. 

 

It's sad that the flag, or anything for that matter, can have it's true use, meaning, etc., twisted into something completely different to where it's not recognizable anymore. I've heard people say in the last couple of years that the American flag is about the oppression of minorities. Where on earth did that come from? It's not a symbol of oppression, people choose to use it as such and still others see as such. If the misuse of a symbol trumps its original meaning, then the swastika, a symbol used by Hindus would forever be tarnished by the Nazis, which in most ways it certainly has been. Yet the (swastika) symbol adorns many temples in India and no one calls them Nazis (but this could be that not many people know about it, or perhaps don't care.) 

I disagree with any kind of ban, even though I don't like seeing our flag desecrated.  Freedom of Expression or "free speech" is a Constitutional Right.

 

Having said that, I also disagree with taking down Confederate flags and monuments.

Quote:The only reason people burn a flag is because that flag has meaning to someone else. If it was just a piece of cloth no-one would care about burning it and no-one would. The very fact you and other people care about the flag to a large extent entices other people to burn it. 

 

maybe, but if everybody was just like, "ya burn it, we dont care" i dont think any kind of mass unifying of people would happen. the kinds of people who burn flags would just find something else to burn.

Here is something to consider.  What would happen if I were to go out and purchase a rainbow flag, proceed to city hall and light it up?  How would I be treated by the media?  Politicians?  Democrats?  Republicans?  Hero or hated "phobe"?

 

As a veteran I am highly upset by the desecration of the symbol of what makes this country what it is.  It offends me that people disrespect and desecrate something that so many have sacrificed so much for including their life.  With that said, the reason I wore the uniform was to protect the right of these "people" to do just that.

Quote:Here is something to consider.  What would happen if I were to go out and purchase a rainbow flag, proceed to city hall and light it up?  How would I be treated by the media?  Politicians?  Democrats?  Republicans?  Hero or hated "phobe"?

 

Here is something to consider: Regardless of how people respond to you, you wouldn't be thrown in jail for doing it.

Quote:Here is something to consider: Regardless of how people respond to you, you wouldn't be thrown in jail for doing it.

 

Yet liberals like you would deem it as "hate speech".

 

Should someone be thrown in jail for flying a Confederate flag?  Is doing so "hate speech"?

Quote:Yet liberals like you would deem it as "hate speech".


Should someone be thrown in jail for flying a Confederate flag? Is doing so "hate speech"?

Who was thrown in jail for flying a confederate flag?

Quote:Here is something to consider.  What would happen if I were to go out and purchase a rainbow flag, proceed to city hall and light it up?  How would I be treated by the media?  Politicians?  Democrats?  Republicans?  Hero or hated "phobe"?

 

As a veteran I am highly upset by the desecration of the symbol of what makes this country what it is.  It offends me that people disrespect and desecrate something that so many have sacrificed so much for including their life.  With that said, the reason I wore the uniform was to protect the right of these "people" to do just that.

If you publicly burned a rainbow flag, public reaction would be intense and divided. Part of the media would demonize you, part would idolize you, and the morons who let the cable news networks dictate their thought patterns would react accordingly. Facebook would light up with some people decrying it as an act of pure, simple hatred, and plenty of others cheering you on for finally putting those filthy queers in their place.

 

Now go burn an American flag. Same reaction, just reversed. Maybe more muted, because we're used to the idea of American flags being burned in protest. We're not used to rainbow flags being burned. In fact, I'd argue that the rainbow flag burning carries an element of extreme hatred to it that burning the American flag wouldn't. Burning an American flag is commentary on the government, the actions of society, something along those lines. Burning a rainbow flag is a direct, targeted statement of hate, disgust or intimidation towards an entire group of people. In fact, in many ways, I'd say it's on par with burning a cross.

 

That's not to say that burning a flag or a cross should be illegal. As long as it's not taking place on someone's property without their consent or being used to clearly target one person or group of people with violent threats, I could really care less. It should all be protected free speech. When you systematically silence (or at least discourage the speech of) groups of people, you get the type of deep divisions and backlash that we're seeing now.

Quote:Yet liberals like you would deem it as "hate speech".

 

Should someone be thrown in jail for flying a Confederate flag?  Is doing so "hate speech"?

 

Newsflash: I don't think someone should be thrown in jail for flying a confederate flag either.  

 

I do however think that the state should not fly the confederate flag at public buildings unless for the purpose of historical commemoration.  

 

Answer this, would burning a 'bible' be considered hate speech?

Quote:Here is something to consider: Regardless of how people respond to you, you wouldn't be thrown in jail for doing it.

You missed the point of my post entirely.  I posed a question in the first paragraph I answered your question in my second.  

With all the problems in our country, and the world...

 

Quote:If you publicly burned a rainbow flag, public reaction would be intense and divided. Part of the media would demonize you, part would idolize you, and the morons who let the cable news networks dictate their thought patterns would react accordingly. Facebook would light up with some people decrying it as an act of pure, simple hatred, and plenty of others cheering you on for finally putting those filthy queers in their place.

 

Now go burn an American flag. Same reaction, just reversed. Maybe more muted, because we're used to the idea of American flags being burned in protest. We're not used to rainbow flags being burned. In fact, I'd argue that the rainbow flag burning carries an element of extreme hatred to it that burning the American flag wouldn't. Burning an American flag is commentary on the government, the actions of society, something along those lines. Burning a rainbow flag is a direct, targeted statement of hate, disgust or intimidation towards an entire group of people. In fact, in many ways, I'd say it's on par with burning a cross.

 

That's not to say that burning a flag or a cross should be illegal. As long as it's not taking place on someone's property without their consent or being used to clearly target one person or group of people with violent threats, I could really care less. It should all be protected free speech. When you systematically silence (or at least discourage the speech of) groups of people, you get the type of deep divisions and backlash that we're seeing now.

 

I would say the rainbow flag represents gays the same way the American flag represents veterans. Burning both illicit similar emotional response with many in both groups I am willing to bet.

 

I consider it hateful expression to burn the American flag. Same with burning the rainbow flag, a cross, or the Quran. How about we just keep that kind of stuff off public grounds?

Quote:I would say the rainbow flag represents gays the same way the American flag represents veterans. Burning both illicit similar emotional response with many in both groups I am willing to bet.

 

I consider it hateful expression to burn the American flag. Same with burning the rainbow flag, a cross, or the Quran. How about we just keep that kind of stuff off public grounds?

First Amendment says that public grounds are exactly where that sort of thing should happen.

Quote:If you publicly burned a rainbow flag, public reaction would be intense and divided. Part of the media would demonize you, part would idolize you, and the morons who let the cable news networks dictate their thought patterns would react accordingly. Facebook would light up with some people decrying it as an act of pure, simple hatred, and plenty of others cheering you on for finally putting those filthy queers in their place.

 

Now go burn an American flag. Same reaction, just reversed. Maybe more muted, because we're used to the idea of American flags being burned in protest. We're not used to rainbow flags being burned. In fact, I'd argue that the rainbow flag burning carries an element of extreme hatred to it that burning the American flag wouldn't.
Burning an American flag is commentary on the government, the actions of society, something along those lines.
Burning a rainbow flag is a direct, targeted statement of hate, disgust or intimidation towards an entire group of people. In fact, in many ways, I'd say it's on par with burning a cross.

 

That's not to say that burning a flag or a cross should be illegal. As long as it's not taking place on someone's property without their consent or being used to clearly target one person or group of people with violent threats, I could really care less. It should all be protected free speech. When you systematically silence (or at least discourage the speech of) groups of people, you get the type of deep divisions and backlash that we're seeing now.

Well thought out response.  I appreciate that you took the time and consideration to take my hypothetical question serious.  

 

In response to the hi-lighted above, I could argue that to the family and friends of someone that lost their life defending what the American flag represents that the desecration of that symbol is reprehensible.  

Quote:Well thought out response.  I appreciate that you took the time and consideration to take my hypothetical question serious.  

 

In response to the hi-lighted above, I could argue that to the family and friends of someone that lost their life defending what the American flag represents that the desecration of that symbol is reprehensible.  

 

Just because one person is offended by something doesn't mean someone else should be forbidden to do it. Deity knows that takes us terrible places.

Let's lock everyone up who doesn't conform!

If only Trump were so tough on all desecration of the flag, like when that Duck Dynasty clown wore one as a bandana at the RNC. I'm so shocked Trump would be an enormous hypocrite on something. That's so unlike him.

Quote:Many feel the same way as you do. Flag burning incites a very passionate, raw emotion in people, especially veterans, that can incite violence. Sort of like yelling racial slurs in public.


Some people can look the other way, some will try and stop it with violence. That is why using speech or expression which incites violence is not considered free speech.

Like cartoons of the prophet Mohammed?

Quote:That is the question.

 

Where do you stand, constituents of the political board?

 

I personally don't care what a person does with a flag, which puts me on the "against" banning side I suppose, but in the end *sings* IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER to me because I don't care if they ban it either.

 

Everyone is seemingly against hate speech, the common argument being hate speech is not free speech. Well, what about hate expression? Flag burning is certainly a hateful expression.

 

Maybe no flag burning on public property is a good compromise?

I refuse to let others define hate speech. That is the fast track to fascism/communism/despotism. Flag burning, while extremely disrespectful is protected. However, treason is not. There's a fine line there.

Quote:I am not so sure the first amendment implies that hate speech can only be directed towards people, and not organizations.

Well if corporations are people, you may have a point.