It is pretty clear to see that the zone read is being easily neutralized in it's second NFL year. Just look at the statlines for RG3 and Kaep.
RG3 2012: 20 TD 5 INT 65.6% Completion 5.1% TD Percentage 1.3% INT Percentage 8.1 YPA
Passer Rtg: 102.4 QBR: 71.41
RG3 2013: 6 TD 5 INT 59.8% Completion 2.9% TD Percentage 2.4% INT Percentage 6.9 YPA
Passer Rtg: 80.4 QBR: 30.86
Kaep 2012: 10 TD 3 INT 62.4% Completion 4.6% TD Percentage 1.4% INT Percentage 8.3 YPA
Passer Rtg: 98.3 QBR: 76.79
Kaep 2013: 8 TD 5 INT 55.9% Completion 5.0 TD Percentage 3.1% INT Percentage 7.2 YPA
Passer Rtg: 83.9 QBR: 56.04
QBR and passer ratings have fallen off of a cliff, YPA is down by more than a yard per player and they are throwing INT's at double the frequency they were last season. Defensive coordinators are just too smart and defenses too talented for gimmicky trends to continue. It was fun while it lasted.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...epCo00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...ifRo01.htm
Well there are also some extenuating circumstances, such as injuries to SF receiving weapons and RG3's recovery from ACL....
I'm sure defenses are catching up somewhat too, but its probably too early to take too much from your findings either way. However, it won't shock me if indeed you wind up correct.
Quote:Well there are also some extenuating circumstances, such as injuries to SF receiving weapons and RG3's recovery from ACL....
I'm sure defenses are catching up somewhat too, but its probably too early to take too much from your findings either way. However, it won't shock me if indeed you wind up correct.
If RG3 keeps this pace up, he will have the biggest dropoff in the history of the QBR statistic. I think it's a lot more than circumstance, as both players numbers have fallen across the board.
QBR is a ridiculous stat. Don't know how ESPN got anyone not on their staff to use it.
I think you need more than just two examples, but I think Athletes who are QB's tend to decline after their first year once defenses have enough tape on them. Look at Tebow for example. Those who can adapt will survive in the NFL. Those who can't won't. Whereas QB's who are Athletes tend to continue doing well, because the defense can't make them be something they aren't.
Quote:QBR is a ridiculous stat. Don't know how ESPN got anyone not on their staff to use it.
I think you need more than just two examples, but I think Athletes who are QB's tend to decline after their first year once defenses have enough tape on them. Look at Tebow for example. Those who can adapt will survive in the NFL. Those who can't won't. Whereas QB's who are Athletes tend to continue doing well, because the defense can't make them be something they aren't.
Absolutely. That adjustment is settling down and becoming more of a pocket passer. You will extend your career and become much better in the long run. If I were an OC for these teams, I would ditch some of these gimmicky offensive concepts and try and groom both RG3 and Kaep into more conventional passers. RG3 has already indicated that is his wish.
Quote:QBR is a ridiculous stat. Don't know how ESPN got anyone not on their staff to use it.
I think you need more than just two examples, but I think Athletes who are QB's tend to decline after their first year once defenses have enough tape on them. Look at Tebow for example. Those who can adapt will survive in the NFL. Those who can't won't. Whereas QB's who are Athletes tend to continue doing well, because the defense can't make them be something they aren't.
Tebow? Bad example. The last game Tebow started as a playoff game. There is a difference between stats falling and not playing because your coach is Rex Ryan.
7 games through 2013, Russel Wilson looks like this.
7 games: 1489 yards, 61.5% rate, 7.96 average, 11 tds to 4 INTs, 97 rating.
2012 through 7 games he looked like this.
7 games: 1230 yards, 59.5% rate, 7.02 average, 8 tds to 7 INTs, 82.1 rating.
Guess Russel is special.
Quote:Tebow? Bad example. The last game Tebow started as a playoff game. There is a difference between stats falling and not playing because your coach is Rex Ryan.
The point is that once teams had enough tape to on Tebow to see his multitude of weaknesses they figured out how to stop him.
Quote:The point is that once teams had enough tape to on Tebow to see his multitude of weaknesses they figured out how to stop him.
Tape? All that took was a couple of Polaroids!
.gif "Laughing")
It's like the wildcat. The read option has come, and is going. When you open your QB to being hit, you are doing a disservice to him and the team.
Quote:It's like the wildcat. The read option has come, and is going. When you open your QB to being hit, you are doing a disservice to him and the team.
Like the wildcat, it can be effective in spots, you just can't get away with running it all the time. Defense is always easier when you know what's coming.
Quote:If RG3 keeps this pace up, he will have the biggest dropoff in the history of the QBR statistic.
So that's like what...six months then?
zone read qbs went undefeated this week? that thad lewis dude is a boss, from ps to starter and could easily been 2-0 against the better defenses in the nfl. can we trade gabbert for him lol
Zone Read Option isn't "dead". The defenses are trying to adjust to it, but the qbs and their offense are improvising, using both the Read options and tradition offense.
Way to cherry pick in your in your example, OP. RG3 had an ACL surgery so of course he won't be as effective early in the season. (It took A.P 6 weeks before he went on to have the greatest season of his career). From the way he performed in the game against the Bears, it looks like RG3 is back.
As for Keep, well, the 49ers are one of the most stacked team in the NFL, so he didn't have to do a lot for them to win.
By the way, how come you didn't include Russell Wilson in hour example, OP? Hmm...cherry picking?
Quote:Zone Read Option isn't "dead". The defenses are trying to adjust to it, but the qbs and their offense are improvising, using both the Read options and tradition offense.
Way to cherry pick in your in your example, OP. RG3 had an ACL surgery so of course he won't be as effective early in the season. (It took A.P 6 weeks before he went on to have the greatest season of his career). From the way he performed in the game against the Bears, it looks like RG3 is back.
As for Keep, well, the 49ers are one of the most stacked team in the NFL, so he didn't have to do a lot for them to win.
By the way, how come you didn't include Russell Wilson in hour example, OP? Hmm...cherry picking?
Because RW is much more of a traditional pocket passer than either of these two.
Quote:Because RW is much more of a traditional pocket passer than either of these two.
No, he's not. Seattle runs the read option just as much as the other two teams. Where Russell Wilson shines is him being able to take what the defense gives him and avoid big hits.
Quote:No, he's not. Seattle runs the read option just as much as the other two teams. Where Russell Wilson shines is him being able to take what the defense gives him and avoid big hits........
And being better from the pocket despite his size and no they dont run the read option with him nearly as much as Kaep and RG3 have. They tend to do alot of PA rollouts from Wilson being under center not from the Gun which gives the look and feel of the read option stuff just in a more traditional pro style offense way.
Quote:And being better from the pocket despite his size and no they dont run the read option with him nearly as much as Kaep and RG3 have. They tend to do alot of PA rollouts from Wilson being under center not from the Gun which gives the look and feel of the read option stuff just in a more traditional pro style offense way.
The reason why the PA works is because they actually had a running game. Go to youtube and watch full redskins games last season. Most of his passes were PA rollouts from under center; Heck, even Troy Aikman commented several times that RG3 has one of the best PA fakes. Obviously, the PA currently doesn't work for Washington because they didn't have a running game until last week vs Bears -- surprisingly, their running game was good because RG3 can actually do a couple read option plays.
Wilson is good, but his supporting casts and defense are even better. WAS supporting casts aren't even close to what Seattle has on the field.
Quote:Like the wildcat, it can be effective in spots, you just can't get away with running it all the time. Defense is always easier when you know what's coming.
I'm asking because I honestly don't know. How many times has the Wildcat, or version of been run this year? I don't think I've seen it.
How about last two years?
Quote:zone read qbs went undefeated this week? that thad lewis dude is a boss, from ps to starter and could easily been 2-0 against the better defenses in the nfl. can we trade gabbert for him lol
Give it a few weeks. He'll get on tape and teams will; figure out how to stop him. He's not an nfl qb.