10-02-2013, 11:03 AM
Quote:Yes.....now you are getting it.....they should have gotten a 2nd from this deal, and probably another 3rd or 4th....
but Caldwell was fleeced.
Nope.
10-02-2013, 11:03 AM
10-02-2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:Monroe wasn't going to resign with us and did we really want to use the franchise tag? Any value is better than no value. The supplemental picks for losing players isn't as good as what you can get for yourself.
Really?? So what supplemental pick would you think we would have been given for a starting LT? I mean we are getting 3rd day picks, what a fourth rounder, fifth rounder and a sixth? What exactly are we going to do with those picks???? Let them ride the bench right. Are we going to get our next starting RT in the fourth, fifth or sixth round? Maybe, but not really.
10-02-2013, 11:15 AM
Quote:Really?? So what supplemental pick would you think we would have been given for a starting LT? I mean we are getting 3rd day picks, what a fourth rounder, fifth rounder and a sixth? What exactly are we going to do with those picks???? Let them ride the bench right. Are we going to get our next starting RT in the fourth, fifth or sixth round? Maybe, but not really.You can't trade supplemental picks. Having picks lets you create package deals and maneuver in the draft.
10-02-2013, 11:18 AM
Quote:Maybe in Imaginationland.
Why isn't this possible? D6 yesterday made a great point, Dallas gave up a 1st,3rd, 6th for Roy Williams, and I find that Monroe is far more valuable than Roy was. Indy gave up a 1st for a middle of the pack RB. (again Monroe to me is valued higher than a RB)
These GM's respectfully did the job of getting value for their players in a draft pick(s). Caldwell is giving away Monroe for nothing. Again I ask, can we draft our starting RT in the fourth, fifth or sixth round?
10-02-2013, 11:22 AM
Yes it is possible to get a starting RT in the 4-6 rounds. Late round picks pan out to be all sorts of great players. We are stuck waiting to see what happens.
10-02-2013, 11:24 AM
Quote:You can't trade supplemental picks. Having picks lets you create package deals and maneuver in the draft.
C'mon really. So ok we will have the top pick in every round and we will maneuver where? We will not give up our position in the first three picks so lets say we take our #4 and an extra 5th and 6th to move where? back into the 3rd round. Not going to happen. Most everything below the 4th round is depth on the roster. We need impact players now, starters. Not bench warmers.
I can't wait to hear what picks we get.
10-02-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:Why isn't this possible? D6 yesterday made a great point, Dallas gave up a 1st,3rd, 6th for Roy Williams, and I find that Monroe is far more valuable than Roy was. Indy gave up a 1st for a middle of the pack RB. (again Monroe to me is valued higher than a RB)
These GM's respectfully did the job of getting value for their players in a draft pick(s). Caldwell is giving away Monroe for nothing. Again I ask, can we draft our starting RT in the fourth, fifth or sixth round?
Certainly you can draft a starting RT in that range.
10-02-2013, 11:27 AM
Quote:Why isn't this possible? D6 yesterday made a great point, Dallas gave up a 1st,3rd, 6th for Roy Williams, and I find that Monroe is far more valuable than Roy was. Indy gave up a 1st for a middle of the pack RB. (again Monroe to me is valued higher than a RB)
These GM's respectfully did the job of getting value for their players in a draft pick(s). Caldwell is giving away Monroe for nothing. Again I ask, can we draft our starting RT in the fourth, fifth or sixth round?
not only that but Miami offered KC a 3rd+ for Brandon Albert.....
The Jags themselves got a 5th for Mike Thomas of all people....
The Jags got a 3rd + a 5th for an aging, declining Marcus Stroud who was in a similar contract situation as Monroe (contract running out)
I'm not even sure we're getting a 4, 5 & 6 for Monroe.....It might just be a 5 & a 6, which sucks.
10-02-2013, 11:28 AM
Quote:Yes it is possible to get a starting RT in the 4-6 rounds. Late round picks pan out to be all sorts of great players. We are stuck waiting to see what happens.
Possible yes, but how has your logic helped the Jags so far in the last 10 years with all the tackles and guards we have drafted in rounds 4-6?
10-02-2013, 11:30 AM
I don't like the trade because the line is really bad this year.... that said something long term is better than nothing. The market sets what we get. You need a trade partner. Brandon Albert is better at his position than Monroe is at his position.
10-02-2013, 12:04 PM
To me, it makes more sense to franchise Monroe and see if his value goes up after that. It makes sense, to me, to pay Monroe top 5 money for 1 year only, even if he isn't top 5. I don't get saying that this is a 12-game proposition for both sides. It's 12+16 =28 games and that should be worth more than a 4 and a 5. Especially a 4 and a 5 from a good team.
10-02-2013, 12:18 PM
Quote:To me, it makes more sense to franchise Monroe and see if his value goes up after that. It makes sense, to me, to pay Monroe top 5 money for 1 year only, even if he isn't top 5. I don't get saying that this is a 12-game proposition for both sides. It's 12+16 =28 games and that should be worth more than a 4 and a 5. Especially a 4 and a 5 from a good team.
Maybe, but the Jags drafted a LT in Joeckel and may think he can be better then Monroe. If that is the case, then franchising him for another year only sets back your future at LT.
I wish they had gotten a RT in free agency this year.
Still, hard to judge trade until we know what we got. Everyone is still guessing. Anyways, if Caldwell knew this is what he was going to do, then I think he should have taken a RT in free agency, drafted Joeckel at LT and made it apparent Monroe was on the trading block.
10-02-2013, 12:22 PM
Quote:Do they understand yet that they are getting a 12 game rental? And then he's a free agent?
They also have 12 weeks as an exclusive chance to get him under long term contract
10-02-2013, 12:27 PM
Quote:They also have 12 weeks as an exclusive chance to get him under long term contractdont they have the option to franchise him if he cant get a contract? an option we also had
10-02-2013, 12:27 PM
what if the jags turn these 4th and 5th picks into a 3rd in the draft? no is the trade ok?
I didnt like this trade at first but if he was going to walk anyway then its not that bad. No team would have traded a 1st or 2nd for a guy that they may not sign anyway
I didnt like this trade at first but if he was going to walk anyway then its not that bad. No team would have traded a 1st or 2nd for a guy that they may not sign anyway
10-02-2013, 12:32 PM
Quote:Maybe, but the Jags drafted a LT in Joeckel and may think he can be better then Monroe. If that is the case, then franchising him for another year only sets back your future at LT.
I wish they had gotten a RT in free agency this year.
Still, hard to judge trade until we know what we got. Everyone is still guessing. Anyways, if Caldwell knew this is what he was going to do, then I think he should have taken a RT in free agency, drafted Joeckel at LT and made it apparent Monroe was on the trading block.
Good post.
This whole Monroe trade just seemed rushed and unnatural to me. Like Caldwell literally decided yesterday he needed to catch up with the Browns and start making trades.
10-02-2013, 12:32 PM
We could get a decent guard and RT with mid round picks.
I'll judge the trade after the draft.
I'll judge the trade after the draft.
10-02-2013, 12:35 PM
Quote:Good post.
This whole Monroe trade just seemed rushed and unnatural to me. Like Caldwell literally decided yesterday he needed to catch up with the Browns and start making trades.
Well, after knowing what we received, I don't think we got good value. I never thought we would get a 1st round player, but 2nd or 3rd? Yeah, that seemed reasonable. At the same time, we have no idea how long he has been working on it, how many teams he called, what he was offered etc... Maybe that is the value for Monroe. Anyways, all we can do is wait and see if this works out in our favor.
10-02-2013, 01:08 PM
So if we assume that the latest Rotoworld post is correct, the Jags traded Monroe for the Ravens 4th and 5th round picks, here is a general look at the draft value they received:
Let's say Ravens fall around barely missing the wildcard this year, so we'll put them at draft pick #20. According to this draft value chart: (http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php) they got the following draft value (ignoring supplementals):
4th round - number 20 (116 overall) = 62 pts
5th round - number 20 (148 overall) = 32.2 pts
To trade these picks up ~ equals: 4th round - number 6
If we compare it to last years draft (feel free to try others) that results in:
4th round: <span>Khaseem Greene</span> - LB
5th round: <span>Stansly Maponga</span> - LB
or after a trade up:
4th round (6th pick) - <span>Alex Okafor</span> - DE
**feel free to try later drafts, but don't let cherry picking influence you.
IMO it's tough to look at giving up a top ten LT, who's just starting his prime at 26 for the type of player that are normally found at those draft spots. Particularly with a team that has a ton of cap mobility, wants to bring in a top of the line QB, and just drafted a rookie tackle. Why not pay big on this guy/franchise him, even if he does end up at RT if Joekel beats him out of the LT position in a year or two. A good/great set of bookends are required to bring up a young rookie QB. Reasonable Gs and Cs, can be found in the mid to late rounds, but cutting ties with a top starter doesn't make much sense. Building through the draft requires you to re-sign players that worked out from your own draft!
Let's say Ravens fall around barely missing the wildcard this year, so we'll put them at draft pick #20. According to this draft value chart: (http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php) they got the following draft value (ignoring supplementals):
4th round - number 20 (116 overall) = 62 pts
5th round - number 20 (148 overall) = 32.2 pts
To trade these picks up ~ equals: 4th round - number 6
If we compare it to last years draft (feel free to try others) that results in:
4th round: <span>Khaseem Greene</span> - LB
5th round: <span>Stansly Maponga</span> - LB
or after a trade up:
4th round (6th pick) - <span>Alex Okafor</span> - DE
**feel free to try later drafts, but don't let cherry picking influence you.
IMO it's tough to look at giving up a top ten LT, who's just starting his prime at 26 for the type of player that are normally found at those draft spots. Particularly with a team that has a ton of cap mobility, wants to bring in a top of the line QB, and just drafted a rookie tackle. Why not pay big on this guy/franchise him, even if he does end up at RT if Joekel beats him out of the LT position in a year or two. A good/great set of bookends are required to bring up a young rookie QB. Reasonable Gs and Cs, can be found in the mid to late rounds, but cutting ties with a top starter doesn't make much sense. Building through the draft requires you to re-sign players that worked out from your own draft!
10-02-2013, 01:15 PM
Quote:So if we assume that the latest Rotoworld post is correct, the Jags traded Monroe for the Ravens 4th and 5th round picks, here is a general look at the draft value they received:
Let's say Ravens fall around barely missing the wildcard this year, so we'll put them at draft pick #20. According to this draft value chart: (<a class="bbc_url" href='http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php'>http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php</a>) they got the following draft value (ignoring supplementals):
4th round - number 20 (116 overall) = 62 pts
5th round - number 20 (148 overall) = 32.2 pts
To trade these picks up ~ equals: 4th round - number 6
If we compare it to last years draft (feel free to try others) that results in:
4th round: <span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);"><a class="bbc_url" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaseem_Greene'>Khaseem Greene</a>
</span><span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);"> - LB
</span>
<span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">5th round:
</span><span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);"><a class="bbc_url" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stansly_Maponga'>Stansly Maponga</a>
</span><span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);"> - LB
</span>
<span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">or after a trade up:
</span>
<span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">4th round (6th pick) -
</span><span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);"><a class="bbc_url" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Okafor'>Alex Okafor</a>
</span><span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);"> - DE
</span>
<span style="background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">**feel free to try later drafts, but don't let cherry picking influence you.
</span>
IMO it's tough to look at giving up a top ten LT, who's just starting his prime at 26 for the type of player that are normally found at those draft spots. Particularly with a team that has a ton of cap mobility, wants to bring in a top of the line QB, and just drafted a rookie tackle. Why not pay big on this guy/franchise him, even if he does end up at RT if Joekel beats him out of the LT position in a year or two. A good/great set of bookends are required to bring up a young rookie QB. Reasonable Gs and Cs, can be found in the mid to late rounds, but cutting ties with a top starter doesn't make much sense. Building through the draft requires you to re-sign players that worked out from your own draft!
Excellent post.