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Quote:We will just have to agree to completely disagree on this subject....

Agreeing to disagree without coming to a higher understanding first, is completely stupid.

Quote:People used to believe the world was flat and that people of color were inferior to white people....doesn't mean they were right.



Believing that transgendered people aren't mentally ill is not me being "politically correct"... It has nothing to do with being PC. I'm not trying to tip toe around and not hurt anyone's feelings with what I believe.



I also have a belief system that I'm not afraid to make known...mine just happens to be based on science.

Actually it was already common knowledge to many of the World's Ancient Civilizations that the Earth was not flat. If your belief system is based primarily on Science than I respect that. But please don't make garbage claims about most of the people on Earth back then believing that it was only flat. It's pure ignorance to think and say otherwise.

Quote:Actually it was already common knowledge to many of the World's Ancient Civilizations that the Earth was not flat. If your belief system is based primarily on Science than I respect that. But please don't make garbage claims about most of the people on Earth back then believing that it was only flat. It's pure ignorance to think and say otherwise.

 

She said people, not all people, not even most people. She also didn't say when in history people believed it. Anyway, what you claim is not true. There were some civilizations that realized that the Earth was spherical earlier than others. There's no way you can say it was common knowledge among all ancient civilizations.

 

The biggest misconception is that people believed the Earth was flat when Columbus sailed to find the new world. That is a myth. The earliest idea of a spherical Earth was around the 6th century BC, but it the idea that the Earth is a sphere didn't get more widespread circulation.until after the 3rd century BC. The idea of a flat Earth was commonly believed in China as late as the 17th century. The Quran mentions a flat earth, and Christian writers as late as the Middle Ages describe a flat Earth. Do you know how many people there were in China during the 17th century, or how many Muslims and Christians there were in the Middle Ages?

 

You really should check yourself before you call what someone else posts garbage.

Quote:She said people, not all people, not even most people.

Yes, but the way that the "Flat Earth" discussion is presented most of the time, implies that most people during that time (And more specifically Religious people.) believed that the Earth was flat. FYI, I am not trying to start a Flat Earth debate here.

 

I am not going to go that much farther in this discussion as I feel that this topic has already gotten way out of hand and has been hijacked by certain individuals wanting to spread their own agendas. I agree with Eric that the only way that this topic can be properly discussed any further is either on another forum where Political issues are more welcomed, or through a PM. The COC here is simply too strict to allow for any Political/Religious discussions. And don't try and tell me that this is not a Political topic, or atleast a topic that is turning into one.

Quote:Yes, but the way that the "Flat Earth" discussion is presented most of the time, implies that most people during that time (And more specifically Religious people.) believed that the Earth was flat. FYI, I am not trying to start a Flat Earth debate here.

 

I am not going to go that much farther in this discussion as I feel that this topic has already gotten way out of hand and has been hijacked by certain individuals wanting to spread their own agendas. I agree with Eric that the only way that this topic can be properly discussed any further is either on another forum where Political issues are more welcomed, or through a PM. The COC here is simply too strict to allow for any Political/Religious discussions. And don't try and tell me that this is not a Political topic, or atleast a topic that is turning into one.

As soon as you start with the "agenda" crap, I know that it's not worth the bother of trying to have a discussion any longer. I guess this isn't something we feel strongly about...it's just something we're trying to get over on all the "good" people in the world. Guess we are all just serpents trying to hand you the apple of your demise.

As I see this, the original post questions should a homo sapien that is scientifically, physical and medically confirmed to be a female be allowed to enter the contest of Home Coming King (an honor bestowed traditionally on homo sapiens of the male spcies) because "she" feels/believes that "she" is in fact a male?  

 

To those that support the physical female/mental male I ask where do you draw the line?  For example if I as a confirmed by science and the medical fields a male, be allowed to grab the first female I see and drag her back to my cave/home because I "feel" that I am actually a Homo Cro Magnon and that is how males of that scientific time period procreated?  Would you allow this scenario?  

 

How about this one:  Should we allow HS males to shower in the girls locker room because they feel and believe they are female?  and Vice verse?  How about if it is your daughter in the girls shower and a male comes strolling in?

 

My point is where do you draw the line?  Or do you?  Not judging, just curios about lines.

Quote:As I see this, the original post questions should a homo sapien that is scientifically, physical and medically confirmed to be a female be allowed to enter the contest of Home Coming King (an honor bestowed traditionally on homo sapiens of the male spcies) because "she" feels/believes that "she" is in fact a male?  

 

To those that support the physical female/mental male I ask where do you draw the line?  For example if I as a confirmed by science and the medical fields a male, be allowed to grab the first female I see and drag her back to my cave/home because I "feel" that I am actually a Homo Cro Magnon and that is how males of that scientific time period procreated?  Would you allow this scenario?  

 

How about this one:  Should we allow HS males to shower in the girls locker room because they feel and believe they are female?  and Vice verse?  How about if it is your daughter in the girls shower and a male comes strolling in?

 

My point is where do you draw the line?  Or do you?  Not judging, just curios about lines.

Excellent point, and excellent scenarios. I have been following along, and personally, I don't see any way I can disagree with what the school board here decided.

Quote:As I see this, the original post questions should a homo sapien that is scientifically, physical and medically confirmed to be a female be allowed to enter the contest of Home Coming King (an honor bestowed traditionally on homo sapiens of the male spcies) because "she" feels/believes that "she" is in fact a male?  

 

To those that support the physical female/mental male I ask where do you draw the line?  For example if I as a confirmed by science and the medical fields a male, be allowed to grab the first female I see and drag her back to my cave/home because I "feel" that I am actually a Homo Cro Magnon and that is how males of that scientific time period procreated?  Would you allow this scenario?  

 

How about this one:  Should we allow HS males to shower in the girls locker room because they feel and believe they are female?  and Vice verse?  How about if it is your daughter in the girls shower and a male comes strolling in?

 

My point is where do you draw the line?  Or do you?  Not judging, just curios about lines.

In the case of Cro Magnon man...his rights to be himself doesn't give him the right to touch anyone else. You can live like Cro Magnon man all you want...you just can't make any one else do it. TG people aren't making anyone else change into a different sex...they are doing it to themselves.


In the case of the shower situation...it gets a little slippery. Best way to deal is to let them have their own showers....unless they have transformed themselves completely into the opposite sex.

Quote:In the case of Cro Magnon man...his rights to be himself doesn't give him the right to touch anyone else. You can live like Cro Magnon man all you want...you just can't make any one else do it. TG people aren't making anyone else change into a different sex...they are doing it to themselves. To play devil's advocate, TG aren't making anyone else do it, but they want others to think of them as a different sex then what they really are.


In the case of the shower situation...it gets a little slippery. Best way to deal is to let them have their own showers....unless they have transformed themselves completely into the opposite sex. Then if this was the case there needs to be a homecoming court for transgender kids, straight kids, lesbians, boys who are gay (or is it Gay boys TMD?) :whistling: , extremely religious kids, extremely non religious kids...etc.

Quote:As far as I'm concerned, you can insult me personally whether you agree with me or not. The post you cited was not meant to validate anything; both Eric and TMD posted content that insulted my intelligence, I responded in kind.

 

Go back and read this thread from the beginning. Eric's reaction was to categorize those who disagreed with him as being PC, then followed that up with accusations that I am intolerant and implied that I am unwilling or even afraid to debate him. Neither assertion could be further from the truth. Well, possibly one, partially, which I will address. As long as Eric isn't taking actual actions to discriminate against a TG person or persons, I will defend his right to state and defend his position with everything at my disposal.

 

I see nothing wrong with stating an opinion here then declining to discuss it further due to CoC concerns. I've done it myself. Having said that, it is a cheap shot to post something, then cite the CoC as a reason to not expound, and then imply that I'm not willing to discuss it in another venue because I'm intolerant or even scared.

 

This is the forum in which the topic has been posted. I admit, I will not bang my head against the wall debating the subject on political grounds, which I can't fathom being a factor in this particular discussion, or especially religious grounds. Obviously, I cannot even begin to explain why, beyond saying nothing will be resolved. Regarding that, Eric is right, I don't care what he has to say from a religious viewpoint, but it has nothing to do with intolerance or political correctness.

 

Can you point out where we or I insulted your intelligence? I said I know MY views are not PC I didn't say you held your views because of PC, and I've gone pretty darn far into this conversation, which is skating a very thin line on the COC. Forgive me almighty mod for attempting to stay within the guidelines.

 

Never said you didn't want to debate me either, I think you read to much into general talk, most of my responses aren't even to your post, I've talked more with BchBunnie then anyone. Cheap shot would be you suggesting your views are based and founded on science when you and I both know that is only interpreted results which are always debatable and far from scientific fact.

 

Try not to take it so personal that I disagree with you.

Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bchbunnie4" data-cid="6868" data-time="1380155037">
In the case of Cro Magnon man...his rights to be himself doesn't give him the right to touch anyone else. You can live like Cro Magnon man all you want...you just can't make any one else do it. TG people aren't making anyone else change into a different sex...they are doing it to themselves. To play devil's advocate, TG aren't making anyone else do it, but they want others to think of them as a different sex then what they really are.


In the case of the shower situation...it gets a little slippery. Best way to deal is to let them have their own showers....unless they have transformed themselves completely into the opposite sex. Then if this was the case there needs to be a homecoming court for transgender kids, straight kids, lesbians, boys who are Gay (or is it Gay boys TMD?) :whistling: , extremely religious kids, extremely non religious kids...etc.

</blockquote>
Or have just one homecoming court where everyone can join....and if someone chooses to abstain because of some personal belief, then that's all on them. That's a little different than a room full of naked kids.

Quote: 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bchbunnie4" data-cid="6868" data-time="1380155037">
<div>
In the case of Cro Magnon man...his rights to be himself doesn't give him the right to touch anyone else. You can live like Cro Magnon man all you want...you just can't make any one else do it. TG people aren't making anyone else change into a different sex...they are doing it to themselves. To play devil's advocate, TG aren't making anyone else do it, but they want others to think of them as a different sex then what they really are.


In the case of the shower situation...it gets a little slippery. Best way to deal is to let them have their own showers....unless they have transformed themselves completely into the opposite sex. Then if this was the case there needs to be a homecoming court for transgender kids, straight kids, lesbians, boys who are Gay (or is it Gay boys TMD?) :whistling: , extremely religious kids, extremely non religious kids...etc.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

see, Trav incorrectly capitalized "gay". 

Quote:see, Trav incorrectly capitalized "gay".

Yeah...I'm SURE that wasn't intentional or anything... :whistling:

Quote:Yeah...I'm SURE that wasn't intentional or anything... :whistling:

 

as was my response to him....but he did provide a good example of exactly what I have been seeing in the media/ papers. 

Quote:Yes, but the way that the "Flat Earth" discussion is presented most of the time, implies that most people during that time (And more specifically Religious people.) believed that the Earth was flat. FYI, I am not trying to start a Flat Earth debate here.

 

I am not going to go that much farther in this discussion as I feel that this topic has already gotten way out of hand and has been hijacked by certain individuals wanting to spread their own agendas. I agree with Eric that the only way that this topic can be properly discussed any further is either on another forum where Political issues are more welcomed, or through a PM. The COC here is simply too strict to allow for any Political/Religious discussions. And don't try and tell me that this is not a Political topic, or atleast a topic that is turning into one.

 

There is no debate about whether the earth is flat,. You specifically described her post as garbage based on your lack of knowledge of the facts.

 

It is pretty clear who has the agenda, you just can't push it here. Judging from the evidence above, I doubt very much you know as much as you claim you know, at least as far as facts are concerned.

Quote:Can you point out where we or I insulted your intelligence? I said I know MY views are not PC I didn't say you held your views because of PC, and I've gone pretty darn far into this conversation, which is skating a very thin line on the COC. Forgive me almighty mod for attempting to stay within the guidelines.

 

Never said you didn't want to debate me either, I think you read to much into general talk, most of my responses aren't even to your post, I've talked more with BchBunnie then anyone. Cheap shot would be you suggesting your views are based and founded on science when you and I both know that is only interpreted results which are always debatable and far from scientific fact.

 

Try not to take it so personal that I disagree with you.

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="EricC85" data-cid="6015" data-time="1380067833">
<div>
like I said the parameters of the COC make it impossible to have this discussion in full here, hit me up o twitter or PM me if your really interested, which I know your not.

</div>
</blockquote>
 

Seriously? You're really going to play the mod card?

 

Since I haven't stated the exact basis of my views, nor even my actual views on the science, you really aren't making any sense

 

here.

 

Quote:as was my response to him....but he did provide a good example of exactly what I have been seeing in the media/ papers. 

 

You mean people bait you in the papers, too?

Quote:Seriously? You're really going to play the mod card?

 

Since I haven't stated the exact basis of my views, nor even my actual views on the science, you really aren't making any sense

 

here.

 


 

You mean people bait you in the papers, too?

You might want to change your response color...it was a little hard to follow this way.

Quote:Actually it was already common knowledge to many of the World's Ancient Civilizations that the Earth was not flat. If your belief system is based primarily on Science than I respect that. But please don't make garbage claims about most of the people on Earth back then believing that it was only flat. It's pure ignorance to think and say otherwise.

I don't think the flat earth example was supposed to be a definitive, black & white example. More an example of views changing as more evidence and knowledge became available. Which is exactly what science does; it changes it views based on what observed and the same is true in the case of LGBT people. It used to be classified as a mental illness, these days we have better knowledge and understanding and it's not considered to be an illness anymore. Nor is there any believe that someone can choose to be gay or transgender.

Quote:Or have just one homecoming court where everyone can join....and if someone chooses to abstain because of some personal belief, then that's all on them. That's a little different than a room full of naked kids.

That's the point. One homecoming court where a female is queen, male is king. No need for special circumstances.

Quote:see, Trav incorrectly capitalized "gay". 

I edited in the wrong spot. I had lowercase gay, then in the parentheses a capitalized Gay to check with you which was absolutely correct. Post has been fixed.