3 Strikes, You’re Out! City to Let Overdose “Victims” Die After 3rd Time
Do we continue to save people who are willingly putting drugs into their bodies and overdosing? That is the question one city has been struggling with for a while, and they are making a decision as to whether they should let the overdosing “victim” die after the third time being saved.
http://eaglerising.com/45079/3-strikes-y...-3rd-time/
(06-28-2017, 02:23 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]3 Strikes, You’re Out! City to Let Overdose “Victims” Die After 3rd Time
Do we continue to save people who are willingly putting drugs into their bodies and overdosing? That is the question one city has been struggling with for a while, and they are making a decision as to whether they should let the overdosing “victim” die after the third time being saved.
http://eaglerising.com/45079/3-strikes-y...-3rd-time/
I'm against anything like this. Like it or not, addiction is in fact a disease and should be treated accordingly. You don't just "ignore" the problem, you treat it and address it.
Think of it this way. If someone that is a heavy smoker and drinker goes into cardiac arrest 3 times to you let that person die as well? What about someone who is overweight?
One of my favorite quotes is on Ronald Reagan's grave. It reads as follows.
"I
know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph, and there is purpose and worth to each and every life".
You don't let someone die just because you don't like their lifestyle or life choices.
(06-28-2017, 04:39 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-28-2017, 02:23 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]3 Strikes, You’re Out! City to Let Overdose “Victims” Die After 3rd Time
Do we continue to save people who are willingly putting drugs into their bodies and overdosing? That is the question one city has been struggling with for a while, and they are making a decision as to whether they should let the overdosing “victim” die after the third time being saved.
http://eaglerising.com/45079/3-strikes-y...-3rd-time/
I'm against anything like this. Like it or not, addiction is in fact a disease and should be treated accordingly. You don't just "ignore" the problem, you treat it and address it.
Think of it this way. If someone that is a heavy smoker and drinker goes into cardiac arrest 3 times to you let that person die as well? What about someone who is overweight?
One of my favorite quotes is on Ronald Reagan's grave. It reads as follows.
"I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph, and there is purpose and worth to each and every life".
You don't let someone die just because you don't like their lifestyle or life choices.
Completely agree. We as a society can't wash our hands of someone because we disagree with the life choices they've made. There is always a chance for redemption even for the worst among us.
not sure hipa would even allow this, medical personnel have to attempt to save people.
(06-28-2017, 05:38 PM)realtorpat Wrote: [ -> ]not sure hipa would even allow this, medical personnel have to attempt to save people.
If they're keeping a database of confidential medical information (which an overdose would be categorized as such) without the consent of the patient, and they're using that to determine whether they'll send emergency medical personnel to the scene of an overdose, then they could be in violation of HIPAA laws.
Medical personnel do have to attempt to save the life unless instructed otherwise. So, if the person has a DNR or something like that, they wouldn't. In this case, the 911 operators are basically being told that if this is strike 3 for this person, hang up. So, it never gets to the medical personnel.
If cities are going to play the ultimate arbiter in determining if someone lives or dies, and they base it on economics, we're all screwed. Today we're talking about drug addicts overdosing. Like JIB pointed out above, that can devolve very quickly to include anyone who has any sort of risk associated with them. The next time they look at pinching pennies, it could be three strikes and out if you're a diabetic who has had two incidents where paramedics needed to be called, and on the third one, they hang up on you. Once you establish a precedent, it's easy to move the goal line for the sake of saving a buck.
I'll share a personal story regarding a drug addict.
My son, at the time he was in his early 20's became addicted to pain killers. He staged a "break in" at our home, but it was pretty obvious that it wasn't a "real" break in. He was too stupid to realize how it was easily picked up (I won't go into details). The main target... pills and money.
He later got picked up after being questioned by police investigators regarding the "break in" because he had some pills on him. He had enough of the pills on him that he was charged with "possession with intent to distribute". The thing is though, he never intended to "distribute" any of his stash. They were all for his own use.
We let him go through the "normal" legal process (public defender) up until it came to the point where he was facing serious prison time. At that point we finally hired an attorney and got him into what was known as "drug court". He had to go through rehab, do community service and long story short, he has been drug-free ever since.
Remember, when this happened he was in his early 20's (I believe 23). Just recently he celebrated his 33rd birthday, has a beautiful wife, a good job and is an upstanding member of society. He still to this day will not even take a drink of alcohol and does not take any pills. He's an active member of AA and NA (Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous).
My point about this is, you cant lump drug addicts into one category.
Another something to think about. You can never give up on a person. As Ronald Reagan said, "there is purpose and worth to each and every life".
I know all about drug addiction, I was addicted to speed (worked graveyard shift) and LSD......
Last trip, or ony drugs for that matter, was July 18th 1990 (At a Grateful Dead Concert).....
I was 29.....
Been clean every since
(06-28-2017, 08:44 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]I know all about drug addiction, I was addicted to speed (worked graveyard shift) and LSD......
Last trip, or ony drugs for that matter, was July 18th 1990 (At a Grateful Dead Concert).....
I was 29.....
Been clean every since
You were addicted to LSD?
(06-28-2017, 07:40 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I'll share a personal story regarding a drug addict.
My son, at the time he was in his early 20's became addicted to pain killers. He staged a "break in" at our home, but it was pretty obvious that it wasn't a "real" break in. He was too stupid to realize how it was easily picked up (I won't go into details). The main target... pills and money.
He later got picked up after being questioned by police investigators regarding the "break in" because he had some pills on him. He had enough of the pills on him that he was charged with "possession with intent to distribute". The thing is though, he never intended to "distribute" any of his stash. They were all for his own use.
We let him go through the "normal" legal process (public defender) up until it came to the point where he was facing serious prison time. At that point we finally hired an attorney and got him into what was known as "drug court". He had to go through rehab, do community service and long story short, he has been drug-free ever since.
Remember, when this happened he was in his early 20's (I believe 23). Just recently he celebrated his 33rd birthday, has a beautiful wife, a good job and is an upstanding member of society. He still to this day will not even take a drink of alcohol and does not take any pills. He's an active member of AA and NA (Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous).
My point about this is, you cant lump drug addicts into one category.
Another something to think about. You can never give up on a person. As Ronald Reagan said, "there is purpose and worth to each and every life".
Unfortunately most addicts don't have this kind of support system and just get cycled through the system over and over.
I live in Huntington, WV (basically ground zero for the heroin crisis). A quarter of the people who live in the county are on heroin. No exaggeration, you can look it up. The heroin zombies are nodding off behind the wheel and running into people left and right. An elderly fella was ran off of a bridge after a couple OD'd behind the wheel. He died from his injuries later. I get sick of seeing these people get narcan and go right back to what they were up to before.
My wife is a cardiac nurse. The majority of her patients used to be elderly folks. Now, they are primarily IV drug users who have burned up a heart valve. Medicaid pays for them to get valve replacements so they get a new valve to burn up on our dime. Between narcan and medicaid, they have zero consequences for their actions.
So the part of me that is sick of dealing with these pieces of garbage says that three strikes sounds good. However, no medical professional is allowed to let some heroin junkie die.
I am against it. I have a lot of history of addiction in my own family. Especially when it comes to alcohol and meth. It's a disease. And not all of us can just walk away or quit something that easily. Or quit cold turkey.
And, most of the time the friendliest people and strongest people you may run across on a day-to-day basis could be secretly and quietly fighting an addiction.
(06-28-2017, 08:44 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]I know all about drug addiction, I was addicted to speed (worked graveyard shift) and LSD......
Last trip, or ony drugs for that matter, was July 18th 1990 (At a Grateful Dead Concert).....
I was 29.....
Been clean every since
Welcome Back to Deer Creek !!! click & enjoy
https://archive.org/details/gd90-07-18.s...sbeok.shnf
(06-29-2017, 02:36 PM)Dumptruck Wrote: [ -> ]I live in Huntington, WV (basically ground zero for the heroin crisis). A quarter of the people who live in the county are on heroin. No exaggeration, you can look it up. The heroin zombies are nodding off behind the wheel and running into people left and right. An elderly fella was ran off of a bridge after a couple OD'd behind the wheel. He died from his injuries later. I get sick of seeing these people get narcan and go right back to what they were up to before.
My wife is a cardiac nurse. The majority of her patients used to be elderly folks. Now, they are primarily IV drug users who have burned up a heart valve. Medicaid pays for them to get valve replacements so they get a new valve to burn up on our dime. Between narcan and medicaid, they have zero consequences for their actions.
So the part of me that is sick of dealing with these pieces of garbage says that three strikes sounds good. However, no medical professional is allowed to let some heroin junkie die.
I understand your frustration and feeling regarding the "three strikes" law, but at the same time I personally couldn't just let someone die because of a psychological/physiological disease. It goes back to actually helping these people overcome the need to put dangerous chemicals into their bodies. Yes I know, alcohol and nicotine are also dangerous chemicals that people put into their bodies (including myself) but it's not the same thing.
Allowing someone to die without helping them or attempting to help them is just not the moral or right thing to do.
(06-29-2017, 03:16 AM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ] (06-28-2017, 08:44 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]I know all about drug addiction, I was addicted to speed (worked graveyard shift) and LSD......
Last trip, or ony drugs for that matter, was July 18th 1990 (At a Grateful Dead Concert).....
I was 29.....
Been clean every since
You were addicted to LSD?
Dude...
(06-29-2017, 02:36 PM)Dumptruck Wrote: [ -> ]I live in Huntington, WV (basically ground zero for the heroin crisis).
WV got played in the election.
Everyone thinks the coal industry is coming back, which won't happen.
30% of your population is on medicaid (with 10% of those being on extended medicaid) -- they are about to get totally screwed. Soon they will be faced with paying $300 for that single pill that used to cost $3 under their prior insurance.
Heroin (a $10 stamp) may not be a bad idea for your retired population .... might as well go out with a good buzz and not die in pain which seems to be inevitable once this thing gets passed.
(06-29-2017, 04:04 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]30% of your population is on medicaid (with 10% of those being on extended medicaid) -- they are about to get totally screwed. Soon they will be faced with paying $300 for that single pill that used to cost $3 under their prior insurance.
Saw something on the news that 50% of people with children are on medicaid. Which I will say if you are on medicaid you probably shouldn't be having children.
(06-29-2017, 04:04 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (06-29-2017, 02:36 PM)Dumptruck Wrote: [ -> ]I live in Huntington, WV (basically ground zero for the heroin crisis).
WV got played in the election.
Everyone thinks the coal industry is coming back, which won't happen.
30% of your population is on medicaid (with 10% of those being on extended medicaid) -- they are about to get totally screwed. Soon they will be faced with paying $300 for that single pill that used to cost $3 under their prior insurance.
Heroin (a $10 stamp) may not be a bad idea for your retired population .... might as well go out with a good buzz and not die in pain which seems to be inevitable once this thing gets passed.
You can't be that ignorant.
1. The Senate bill makes no changes to Medicaid until 2025. And even then it merely reduces the yearly spending increase to the inflation rate rather than the higher medical inflation rate.
2. At least without Obama's dictatorial anti-coal regulations, the coal industry has a chance. Whether the coal industry comes back will now depend on the supply of natural gas, rather than the desires of an extremist. If the coal industry does come back (or if the economy otherwise recovers) then the percentage of WV citizens on Medicaid will decrease.
3. Right now the Mrs. and I can buy all of our prescription drugs without using insurance for less than the cost of the insurance co-pay. Obamacare raised the co-pays so high that that became a reality.
(06-29-2017, 06:47 PM)realtorpat Wrote: [ -> ] (06-29-2017, 04:04 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]30% of your population is on medicaid (with 10% of those being on extended medicaid) -- they are about to get totally screwed. Soon they will be faced with paying $300 for that single pill that used to cost $3 under their prior insurance.
Saw something on the news that 50% of people with children are on medicaid. Which I will say if you are on medicaid you probably shouldn't be having children.
How dare you insinuate that individuals should be responsible for the consequences of their decisions! Its up to the productive and responsible to pay for those people's judgement lapses.
(06-29-2017, 09:12 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-29-2017, 06:47 PM)realtorpat Wrote: [ -> ]Saw something on the news that 50% of people with children are on medicaid. Which I will say if you are on medicaid you probably shouldn't be having children.
How dare you insinuate that individuals should be responsible for the consequences of their decisions! Its up to the productive and responsible to pay for those people's judgement lapses.
my bad, sometimes my white male privilege forgets how much I owe to society. Anyway, back to working two jobs while going to school for two different careers that will one day intersect.
(06-29-2017, 04:04 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (06-29-2017, 02:36 PM)Dumptruck Wrote: [ -> ]I live in Huntington, WV (basically ground zero for the heroin crisis).
WV got played in the election.
Everyone thinks the coal industry is coming back, which won't happen.
30% of your population is on medicaid (with 10% of those being on extended medicaid) -- they are about to get totally screwed. Soon they will be faced with paying $300 for that single pill that used to cost $3 under their prior insurance.
Heroin (a $10 stamp) may not be a bad idea for your retired population .... might as well go out with a good buzz and not die in pain which seems to be inevitable once this thing gets passed.
Haha they have been played in every election since I can remember. Coal is king and any alternative means of employment is shunned like it is testicular cancer. After the better half finishes her MSN and I my MBA, we are headed to Jax.