Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(08-03-2017, 10:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny because it's hard to argue against anything they've said. Bortles has 11 wins under his belt. His completion percentage is 58%. His turnovers are up there and they're some of the most costly throughout the NFL.

I don't care about Colin's political stance. Doesn't bother me that he exercised his right to peacefully protest. Regardless of how I personally feel about it.

Bottom line. Even if you think he's not better than Bortles. He's certainly better than Henne and Allen. And at this point you may not have to pay him a big one year deal to get him in here since apparently nobody seems to want him. At the very minimum I would kick the tires this pre-season with him, and RGIII. I would have already brought both of them in here to compete with Henne at the minimum.

This team is more than likely going to have a strong ground game and stout defense this year. That's something Colin is familiar with. People like to say his play suffered. Of course it did. The entire team suffered. Tomsula failed. Kelly failed. It's a dysfunctional team being ran by a young and foolish owner.

He's just now figuring it out by locking up Lynch and Shanahan for a five year commitment. But, again, back to our team. 11 wins in the last few years under Bortles. Mistakes after mistakes made. This team can't afford to be picky and choosey at the QB position. And nobody on this board can tell me otherwise or convince me that at the MINIMUM, Colin or RGIII offers some form of upgrade or potential over Henne and Allen at this position.

lets use that same logic with blake bortles no running game, bad defense and worst coaching but it's funny how you and others dismissed it because unlike Kaep ya'll expect blake to overcome those things.

(08-03-2017, 11:25 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2017, 10:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny because it's hard to argue against anything they've said. Bortles has 11 wins under his belt. His completion percentage is 58%. His turnovers are up there and they're some of the most costly throughout the NFL.

I don't care about Colin's political stance. Doesn't bother me that he exercised his right to peacefully protest. Regardless of how I personally feel about it.

Bottom line. Even if you think he's not better than Bortles. He's certainly better than Henne and Allen. And at this point you may not have to pay him a big one year deal to get him in here since apparently nobody seems to want him. At the very minimum I would kick the tires this pre-season with him, and RGIII. I would have already brought both of them in here to compete with Henne at the minimum.

This team is more than likely going to have a strong ground game and stout defense this year. That's something Colin is familiar with. People like to say his play suffered. Of course it did. The entire team suffered. Tomsula failed. Kelly failed. It's a dysfunctional team being ran by a young and foolish owner.

He's just now figuring it out by locking up Lynch and Shanahan for a five year commitment. But, again, back to our team. 11 wins in the last few years under Bortles. Mistakes after mistakes made. This team can't afford to be picky and choosey at the QB position. And nobody on this board can tell me otherwise or convince me that at the MINIMUM, Colin or RGIII offers some form of upgrade or potential over Henne and Allen at this position.

lets use that same logic with blake bortles no running game, bad defense and worst coaching but it's funny how you and others dismissed it because unlike Kaep ya'll expect blake to overcome those things.

I've been a supporter of Bortles going into last year and this year. I was optimistic. But some of his issues seem to strictly be on him. The poor throwing motions, the decision making, the footwork and the inaccuracy. He just seems to fall apart at times out there. 

You're overlooking the fact that I am not even saying that Colin should come in TODAY and be the starter over Blake. I am saying, Blake is the guy at the moment. But, what do we have to lose in replacing Henne or Allen with QB's that have played at solid levels before? Just in case he does collapse this year.

It's hard for me to articulate in words how much I don't care about this.

(08-03-2017, 11:45 AM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard for me to articulate in words how much I don't care about this.

Don't a lot of the other players that took a knee still have a job? So clearly taking a knee isn't a job killer.

Kaep's problem is that he isnt good enough to be a guaranteed starter. Most teams either have their established starter or are like us and still hoping their young QB will make the next step. Which leaves Kaep's only legitimate hope to find a spot as a backup. But backup QBs are mostly irrelevant and if a team has to rely on their backup for a significant amount of time, your season is most likely done. So why bring in all the unnecessary off the field distraction for a relatively unimportant position filled by a player marginally better than his competition for the spot?

Couple that with the fact that it will turn off some fans, it just doesnt make sense. The NFL has admitted the political stance hurt ratings and large numbers of Americans flat out disagree with him. It's a business decision. And I dont blame any of these teams for passing on him.

The Bortles hate has gone way overboard.

He has played 3 seasons and his last 2 are 1st and 2nd all-time in yards and touchdowns for the Jaguars. The flaw in his game has been interceptions, yet he has statistically improved in that area every season. If it weren't for about 8 very fluky interceptions last season, he would have significantly jumped in that area. He needs to be better in order for us to be an elite team, but have you guys not seen enough terrible quarterback play to realize that he is not a terrible quarterback?

It's just weird how nationally so many are starting to jump on Bortles as the posterboy for bad quarterback play when there are so many quarterbacks out there that wish they put up the same numbers as Bortles. How is Jameis Winston considered one of the good up-and-coming quarterbacks of the league, but Bortles is a lousy quarterback who throws too many picks? Do people know that they are almost identically statistically and that Winston throws picks at a higher rate than Bortles, even with last year's fluky interceptions? Good thing Brett Favre didn't start playing football in today's era because he would have been ran out of the league and tarred and feathered as the worst quarterback to ever play the game.

(08-03-2017, 09:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2017, 09:33 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's definitely a race thing, that's what Sherman is saying in that whole article.

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Sherman tried to make it a race thing. 'Cause he's a toolbag. 
Same with the poster I responded to earlier in the post you quoted.

But Kap not being hired right now is most assuredly not a race thing. 

There are GMs that won't hire him because his activism rubs them, others in their front office, or a large % of their fanbase the wrong way from a patriotism standpoint. (disrespecting the flag/anthem)

Then there are others that won't hire him because they are convinced he won't do anything to help their football team. 

For many it's both of these. 

There isn't an NFL team out there not hiring someone because he's African-American or has been outspoken about issues affecting the African-American community. 

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  That would immediately eliminate dozens of NFL players that are currently employed and many of them are star players.

Ok, it's a political protest about racial matters then, but it most certainly is about racial matters.

Kaep could be the next coming of Fran Tarkenton, and the Jags wouldn't touch him. And they shouldn't.

Jacksonville is a military town. When Kaep refused to honor the flag, the vast majority of vets didn't look kindly on it. It's not a racial issue. Had someone like Tom Brady taken the same stance, he too would not be accepted here.

LOL. Brady could punch his wife in the face and kick his son into a wall. Half this damn city would still want him here. Don't [BLEEP] yourself.

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(08-03-2017, 10:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This team can't afford to be picky and choosey at the QB position. And nobody on this board can tell me otherwise or convince me that at the MINIMUM, Colin or RGIII offers some form of upgrade or potential over Henne and Allen at this position.

I think you have a valid point that Kaep & RGIII would be upgrades over Henne.  But K wouldn't be a sufficient upgrade to outweigh the sideshow he's bring as a backup qb.  I would have loved to see RGIII in camp competing to be the backup.

Let's not forget, Kaep is a big supporter of Fidel Castro because of his education policies. Let's forget everything else he's ever done, it's his education policies that we'll talk about.

The problem with Kaepernick is he is short sided. He may have had good intentions kneeling, but he wants to play dumb on the millions of people that could possibly be offended by him disrespecting the American flag and what it stands for. Let's also not forget that he kneeled for 2-3 games before the media picked it up and at the time he was disgruntled he wasn't starting, no mention he was kneeling as a social justice issue.

Kaep is much like Tebow, a side show. I didn't want Tebow her because he wasn't that great of a qb that was going to bring a lot of media and attention to the team that wasn't going to be sustainable. It was going to be a no win situation for the Jags. I look at Kaep the same way for most teams in the NFL.

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(08-03-2017, 12:46 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2017, 10:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This team can't afford to be picky and choosey at the QB position. And nobody on this board can tell me otherwise or convince me that at the MINIMUM, Colin or RGIII offers some form of upgrade or potential over Henne and Allen at this position.

I think you have a valid point that Kaep & RGIII would be upgrades over Henne.  But K wouldn't be a sufficient upgrade to outweigh the sideshow he's bring as a backup qb.  I would have loved to see RGIII in camp competing to be the backup.

What has RGIII ever done to make you say that?  His rookie year was it, and since then he's been complete garbage.  Kaepernick has his merits, but its hard to make it work.  Football is a business and if an owner is going to lose a $1 over Kaepernick, why would they do it?

Blake had been very poor overall, yes.

But a saints player needs to frankly shut his pie hole.

Last time blake played the saints, he threw for 370 yards and 4 TDs.

I don't think neither Kaepernick nor RGIII are at the points of their careers where they would be content in being a backup. The last thing we need on this team is a quarterback controversy over some mediocre quarterbacks at best. We all know the amount of hate Bortles gets and what bringing in highly celebrity competition would do to this team.

(08-02-2017, 11:36 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]The people who think kaepernick is a good qb are black.  Its a black thang.

At what point are Kaepernick's accomplishments (i.e. taking a team to the Super Bowl) considered part of the discussion?  After all, merit is SOOO important to our conservative bretheren...right?

Yes, Kaepernick was benched for Gabbert, but the 49ers haven't exactly been known for making smart decisions over the past few years.  Why do we automatically assume that was the right decision?

When Kaepernick was benched after 11 games, he had 16 TDs to 4 INTs, a 59.2 completion percentage, and 6.8 y/a.

Gabbert came in, had a TD-INT ratio of 5-6, had a 56.9 completion %, and 5.8 y/a, and had no more wins than Kaepernick.

Perhaps the 49ers awful start wasn't all on Kaepernick.  The team was DEAD LAST in defense.

Regarding Kaepernick's kneeling during the National Anthem, I think much of the moralizing against him is spectacularly disingenuous.

If the country that flag represents is great enough to be beyond the reproach of someone like Kaepernick, who did nothing but silently kneel during the national anthem, then one would surmise certainly it is great enough to enforce its own laws.  Yet when Cliven Bundy refused to pay grazing fees in accordance to federal law over twenty years, the government of this country tried to enforce its laws and either collect the fees rightfully owed or take him to jail.  It was met with organized armed resistance with mostly white men with guns.  Very powerful guns.

Now in the aftermath of this recent rash of police shootings, one response from the right repeatedly resonated in the discourse.  "He should have complied with the police."  According to this logic, lethal police force in each instance was justified because the suspects in question did not do what the police ordered.  (For the moment, we will leave aside the question of how twelve year old Tamir Rice could reasonably process and comply with police in the < 3 seconds it took from the time police arrived to the time he was shot for holding a BB gun in an open carry state.)  But the simple equation is that non compliance justifies law enforcement use of lethal force according to conservative reaction to almost  all of these instances.  I will admit I am not well versed in weaponry, nor am I in law enforcement. But to me, pointing firearms at law enforcement officers epitomizes non compliance, and, using the logic referenced above, should have created a reasonable apprehension or fear that life is endangered, and justified lethal force by law enforcement.

However, the conservative response to the Bundy militia incident was quite different than it was to the numerous controversies regarding citizens interactions with police.  There, this great country was not justified in enforcing its own laws.  There were no military, past or present, to take umbrage at the disrespect shown our country.  There were no finger wagging conservatives saying law enforcement was justified in killing the thugs.  Instead, these people who provided armed resistance to law enforcement were hailed as "heroes" by the likes of Sean Hannity, who saw them as a sort of righteous buffer against government overreach. This is far from an aberrational response.  There are many on the right who view Randy Weaver and his family as martyrs for engaging in a shootout against federal law enforcement in the siege at Ruby Ridge, just as there are those on the right sympathetic to the the people in the Waco standoff.

The differences of fact and dichotomy of response raise numerous questions.

Do blue lives matter less if they are a federal shade of blue or enforcing federal law?  Does it depend upon which federal law is being enforced?

For that matter, are local laws more worthy to be enforced than federal laws?

Is it possible for local law enforcement to overreach and infringe upon people's constitutional rights, or is that the sole purview of the federal government?

What is the appropriate way to protest what you perceive as unjust government action?  Does that standard change if we are talking local government action vs. federal?

Is the way to survive a non compliant interaction with police to walk around with a bunch of guys conspicuously carrying weapons taking up strategic positions where they believe such interactions would take place?

Kaepernick raised questions by his protest.

Does the race of the person interacting with police make a difference in surviving a police encounter?  Given the application of the facts of these various cases to the logic applied by conservatives-to say nothing of long standing historical precedent, it is a question worthy of discussion.

Only Kaepernick is being vilified for his kneeling.  Why?

What makes the Weavers of Ruby Ridge and the Bundy militia heroes for their armed resistance to law enforcement, while the Tamir Rices and Trayvon Martin's of the world are dismissed as thugs?

Did the military members not bravely serve this country for citizens to exercise their freedom of speech, or did that only apply to people who provided armed resistance to the law enforcement of this great country?  Do military members seriously think a man kneeling silently is less of an insult to this country than armed men pointing guns at federal law enforcement?

(08-03-2017, 12:59 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think neither Kaepernick nor RGIII are at the points of their careers where they would be content in being a backup.  The last thing we need on this team is a quarterback controversy over some mediocre quarterbacks at best.  We all know the amount of hate Bortles gets and what bringing in highly celebrity competition would do to this team.

They had better be content with coming is as backups.  Otherwise they might as well retire today.  They need to work on their craft, get better, and earn their way to a starting job.

Quote:UFC Knight: What has RGIII ever done to make you say that?  His rookie year was it, and since then he's been complete garbage. 

He shows flashes of talent, something you don't see from Henne.  His running ability was ruined in Washington.  Maybe he can develop the accuracy, etc.

It's hard to talk about this because of what it involves. But the comments are valid because Bortles haven't shown what's needed. I'd take kap as a back up to Bortles than Henne any day of the week.... But I'm not ready to say we should replace Bortles for him.... Yet lol

Also, I've always been a supporter of kap and his cause for doing it. I would have recommended doing something a little different, but in order to bring attention to something, you have to sometimes do things that aren't wise or popular. But everyone who despises what he did doesn't understand or care about what he was protesting. And for all of the "white" posters saying it's a black thing, you need to care and see it as a human thing. If you don't care, I pity you. If you don't care because you're a racist, I pity you even more. The sitting thing was dumb because that was total disrespect. But kneeling I have no issue with. I'm really only posting this because of one poster who stated this was a black thing. That statement pisses me off because we'll never see true change until everyone sees it as important; this why kap brought more attention to it.

PS. I'm not black and I'm prior service. So there is no hipocracy here; just understanding..... Bortles better not suck it up this year.....

Lots of fence straddling between football and politics here, guys.

Let's please make an effort to keep the politics in that other forum. I know the article linked gets into it - but don't turn thi sthread into a full on political or social rights discussion.

Here's a thread about it for those who want to explore that non-football side of the issue:

https://duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=21723

(08-02-2017, 11:36 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]The people who think kaepernick is a good qb are black.  Its a black thang.

Im black and I can tell you now that I've always thought that CK was never a good QB. But, he is better than Henne and every other backup QB in this league.


CK just has a horrible football IQ. 

You on the other hand just has a horrible IQ. Smh.