(08-08-2017, 12:09 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 12:01 PM)Jstewie15 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I miss the days of Eugene Monroe ,Vince Manuwai , Brad Meester ,Chris Naeole and Maurice Williams!
Monroe never played with Naoele, and only played five games together with Mo Williams.
Monroe was a rookie in 2009.
Naeole played his last game in 2007.
Yeah I was just mentioning a few names of guys. Our guard play besides Linder as a Rookie has been awful since Manuwai , Naeole , Williams and OT since Monroe/ Williams or really even Boselli/Searcy
(08-08-2017, 12:18 PM)Jstewie15 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 12:09 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Monroe never played with Naoele, and only played five games together with Mo Williams.
Monroe was a rookie in 2009.
Naeole played his last game in 2007.
Yeah I was just mentioning a few names of guys. Our guard play besides Linder as a Rookie has been awful since Manuwai , Naeole , Williams and OT since Monroe/ Williams or really even Boselli/Searcy
Agreed completely our G play has been awful since those guys. Linder has been good, but everyone else? Pfft.
(08-08-2017, 12:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 11:40 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
When they had Manuwai.
There were no OLs worth drafting in the top five. According to many draftniks including the Jaguars scouts, Cam Robinson was the best OL in the draft.
And to be completely honest, there was a certain group of posters who were championing for Cam Robinson to be selected by the Jags at #4 or later in the first in a trade back scenario this year.
(08-08-2017, 11:40 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 09:14 AM)Browntrouser Wrote: [ -> ]When was the last time the Jags had a top 10 line?
When they had Manuwai.
(08-08-2017, 11:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]...drafting a high profile RB before fully addressing the major needs on the O-Line is like putting the cart before the horse.
There were no OLs worth drafting in the top five. According to many draftniks including the Jaguars scouts, Cam Robinson was the best OL in the draft.
Who said we had to fill all the needs on the O-Line via the draft? Personally, I would've rather spent money to get Andrew Whitworth and T.J. Lang rather than Calais Campbell. Whitworth is old, but is still among the top 5-8 active LT's and would've been a good short term answer at LT. Lang is a former pro bowl player and would've secured the interior.
I went through a ton of mock drafts and I never saw a single one that had Robinson as the best O-Lineman in the draft. They always had Bolles, Ramczyk or Lamp as the top O-Lineman.
(08-08-2017, 12:04 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 11:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] The O-Line wasn't the only area that needed help, but from what I saw last year, it was certainly the biggest need and drafting a high profile RB before fully addressing the major needs on the O-Line is like putting the cart before the horse.
(Emphasis added)
I don't understand the insistence that the OL be built flawlessly before acquiring any skill players, irrespective of where the players rank in their particular draft classes or how hard it is to find particular positions.
There are people who think it pointless to draft a QB without having a perfect offensive line. Under this rationale, if you are in a position to draft a franchise QB, but you have a hole at RT and LG, you wait to take the G and T first, then come back and get the QB, as if elite skill players grow on trees.
The fact is, history has proven time and time again that the very best teams in NFL history have emphasized skill players in early rounds and offensive linemen in the mid to late rounds in building their teams.
The only way what you describe above is putting the cart before the horse is if you are taking inferior players over superior ones.
Not flawlessly. I just want competent players who can pass protect and open a running lane at least somewhat consistently.
It is pointless to play a rookie franchise QB if you have subpar O-Line. That's the best way to get a QB injured and kill a young guy's confidence.
You still draft that QB, but for God's sake, sit the kid and don't play him until the O-Line is stabilized. Otherwise, you mess with the kid's head.
(08-08-2017, 12:05 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 11:22 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Who are all these players we brought in?
#2 pick Joeckel
3rd round pick Linder
6th round pick Bowanko
3rd round pick Cann
2nd round pick Robinson
FA Beadles
FA Wisniewski
FA Parnell
FA Beachum
Trade: Albert
Is that supposed to be an impressive list?
(08-08-2017, 12:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Who said we had to fill all the needs on the O-Line via the draft? ...
(08-08-2017, 12:04 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](Emphasis added)
I don't understand the insistence that the OL be built flawlessly before acquiring any skill players, irrespective of where the players rank in their particular draft classes or how hard it is to find particular positions.
...
Not flawlessly. I just want competent players ...
(08-08-2017, 12:05 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]#2 pick Joeckel
3rd round pick Linder
6th round pick Bowanko
3rd round pick Cann
2nd round pick Robinson
FA Beadles
FA Wisniewski
FA Parnell
FA Beachum
Trade: Albert
Is that supposed to be an impressive list?
Ummm.
You asked who Caldwell brought in.
He told you.
Everyone realizes most of them are/were sub-par performers.
I would have liked to have seen us do more with the O-line last year too. But if Cam Robinson is the type of guy that a lot of people think he is (particularly Nick Saban) he should be a lot of help.
Would have been great to pick up a Guard somewhere. Free Agency or Draft.
(08-08-2017, 01:23 PM)The Eleventh Doctor Wrote: [ -> ]I would have liked to have seen us do more with the O-line last year too. But if Cam Robinson is the type of guy that a lot of people think he is (particularly Nick Saban) he should be a lot of help.
Would have been great to pick up a Guard somewhere. Free Agency or Draft.
Technically, they have added a guard that started ten games last season for the Cardinals.
But it's looking like he's not good enough to really challenge Cann and he's hurt at the moment as well.
(watford)
(08-08-2017, 01:23 PM)The Eleventh Doctor Wrote: [ -> ]Would have been great to pick up a Guard somewhere. Free Agency or Draft.
They did...
Albert LT/LG (this is how it was supposed to shake out, him at one, Robinson at the other)
Also signed Earl Watford for experience depth
-4 seasons with the Cards, with 12 starts in 33 games played...
So it isn't like they were just like "Oh we're all set" They made some moves... but didn't bring in 5 new starter faces. And didn't spend multiple mid round picks on OG (which is what half the MB wanted... Lamp in 2nd and Feeney in 3rd)
There has been a lot of shade thrown at the O-Line issues (especially by the BCC brethren) but I specifically remember ol Alfie saying he wasn't worried about them not bringing in or drafting a lot of O-Line guys...
I remember hearing how well Omameh was doing pre-injury and how well Parnell did post-injury if we hope they pick up there... and Linder is as good or better at Center....
LT was the only issue. If Cam Robinson is as advertised... I really don't get all the hooplah.
EDIT: I know you probably meant signing a big name FA... and I'm sure they tried to an extent... but they felt good enough about their guys to not overpay..
I suppose it would have been nice to end up with Zietler or one of the other top guys... but we can't get em all... they aren't pokemon lol
(08-08-2017, 10:15 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 08:55 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This O-line has been hexed ever since Dave let Monroe walk.
Monroe was never that good.
Monroe achieved legendary status once he was traded. Prior to that, the usual suspects wanted him gone.
(08-08-2017, 12:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-08-2017, 12:05 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]#2 pick Joeckel
3rd round pick Linder
6th round pick Bowanko
3rd round pick Cann
2nd round pick Robinson
FA Beadles
FA Wisniewski
FA Parnell
FA Beachum
Trade: Albert
Is that supposed to be an impressive list?
No, and that's entirely the point.
People said they didn't ignore offensive line, but chose the wrong players - which I agree with. You seemed to disagree, asking who they've brought in.
(08-08-2017, 08:47 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]HERE IS MY ATTENTION SEEKING THREAD OF THE DAY!
SOMEONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO ME...
The block feature is weird... I can see the thread, but when I open it all I see are responses, though quoted responses still show the blocked person... (No way of just making them disappear out of my life? lol)
ANYWAY BACK TO POUNDING ON THE TABLE UNTIL SOMEONE VALIDATES MY WHINY CRYING NONSENSE!
IIIIII SHOOOOUUUULLLD BE GM!
Well hey, look BA is coming back... Oline...fixed?
Wow man you are really cool
(08-08-2017, 01:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 12:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Who said we had to fill all the needs on the O-Line via the draft? ...
Not flawlessly. I just want competent players ...
Is that supposed to be an impressive list?
Ummm.
You asked who Caldwell brought in.
He told you.
Everyone realizes most of them are/were sub-par performers.
The problem is, that it isn't an impressive list and people do realize they are sub par. That should show that either our front office, coaching staff or our scouting department doesn't realize what it takes to build a solid O-Line.
(08-08-2017, 02:07 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2017, 12:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]
Is that supposed to be an impressive list?
No, and that's entirely the point.
People said they didn't ignore offensive line, but chose the wrong players - which I agree with. You seemed to disagree, asking who they've brought in.
No. Maybe my sarcasm didn't translate through the writing, but what I meant was that by not bringing in top rated/consistent starters via free agency or not spending multiple picks on high round O-Linemen when it was such a need, was a complete failure in my opinion. Sorry if that didn't translate. Sometimes I forget people can't see the sarcasm on my face as I'm typing.
Anyone know how Bowanko has looked ? An ideal lineup to me would be him at C and Linder at RG, provided Bowanko has looked good at C.
(08-08-2017, 06:41 PM)JAXsonVIL Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone know how Bowanko has looked ? An ideal lineup to me would be him at C and Linder at RG, provided Bowanko has looked good at C.
Or maybe, has he looked better at center than either Omameh or Cann have at guard?
(08-08-2017, 06:41 PM)JAXsonVIL Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone know how Bowanko has looked ? An ideal lineup to me would be him at C and Linder at RG, provided Bowanko has looked good at C.
I'm willing to bet we'll see during the preseason. They know he can hold down the C position so it's odd that they haven't really let him branch out to the G position in camp. If it's about the best five, throw him out there in the RG spot to see what he can do. He certainly appears nastier and stronger than Cann.
I thought we could have done more for the O Line, definitely in the draft we could have. We didn't really go after Mack when he was a FA, even after we made him the offer sheet a few years back.. You'd think he would have been a targeted signing. That seems to have hurt us, he is lights out in ATL. There were a handful of guards in the 3rd and 4th we could have snagged and didn't. Our depth is just as bad as last year on the O line. We let a decent LT go, traded for a bum, and drafted an OT. We did nothing noteworthy inside, this team will likely struggle there, especially vs Houston.
I do not expect to win either game vs the Texans, even with nobody at QB for them... I just don't see how we move the ball or score any points.
Guys, we are gong to install a power run focused attack, what does it matters if we are going to have two crappy guards, a rookie left tackle and a underperforming right tackle? Oh wait.
The Jags front office is a whole lot more content with the o line play than the vast majority of the fan base, including myself. Maybe they know what they are doing. A look at the win-loss record under Caldwell suggests the opposite. These are the same geniuses that watched the last three years of game film and concluded, "no changes need to be made to the QBs on the roster."
(08-08-2017, 11:19 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]I thought we could have done more for the O Line, definitely in the draft we could have. We didn't really go after Mack when he was a FA, even after we made him the offer sheet a few years back.. You'd think he would have been a targeted signing. That seems to have hurt us, he is lights out in ATL. There were a handful of guards in the 3rd and 4th we could have snagged and didn't. Our depth is just as bad as last year on the O line. We let a decent LT go, traded for a bum, and drafted an OT. We did nothing noteworthy inside, this team will likely struggle there, especially vs Houston.
I do not expect to win either game vs the Texans, even with nobody at QB for them... I just don't see how we move the ball or score any points.
I think that had to do with the fact the believed Linder would be a great center (which they called correctly) and wanted to salvage Joeckel's career here (which obviously didn't happen). Not to mention Mack was coming off a less than stellar year due to injury and he was a couple years older.