Now we all are upset about what we have at qb but nothing can change that. So let's focus on what the offensive game plan should be going forward.
Offensively we should place a major emphasis on the run game. We have a qb that cannot throw the ball or read a defense but let's place that to the side. The biggest issue is that he turns the ball over at an extr really high rate. If we focus on the run it place us in manageable down and distance. Using play action, role outs, options play and moving the pocket allows Bortles to use his mobility or throw to a dumpoff. At this point that is all we have in the passing game.
2nd and 7 and 3rd and 6 gives you a new play book. Throwing on early downs just is not going to work for this team. Focus on the run period and take the ball out of Bortles had. That will drastically reduce the turnovers and keep us playing the field position games until the defense can get a big play or we wear down their defense.
2016 Game Plan (should have been):
Don't Promote the QB Coach to Offensive Coordinator when your QB has significantly regressed.
(09-18-2017, 10:33 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Now we all are upset about what we have at qb but nothing can change that. So let's focus on what the offensive game plan should be going forward.
Offensively we should place a major emphasis on the run game. We have a qb that cannot throw the ball or read a defense but let's place that to the side. The biggest issue is that he turns the ball over at an extr really high rate. If we focus on the run it place us in manageable down and distance. Using play action, role outs, options play and moving the pocket allows Bortles to use his mobility or throw to a dumpoff. At this point that is all we have in the passing game.
2nd and 7 and 3rd and 6 gives you a new play book. Throwing on early downs just is not going to work for this team. Focus on the run period and take the ball out of Bortles had. That will drastically reduce the turnovers and keep us playing the field position games until the defense can get a big play or we wear down their defense.
Hey Forrest, This already is the game plan.
That's already the game plan until the other team takes a 2 score lead in the 2nd half and then you have to largely abandon the run.
That being said, you do have to keep defenses on their toes by throwing on 1st or 2nd down occasionally even if your QB is what Blake is. Fournette is great about getting an extra yard or two that other backs wouldn't get, but you can't be playing to get to 3rd and short every series because you aren't going to convert 3rd downs at 75% or probably even at 50% consistently. Jags are currently ranked 21st in the league with a 36% 3rd down conversion rate. It's going to have to be a lot better than that combined with fewer turnovers for this team to win more games than it loses or we'll need to somehow manufacture more big plays. Running on 1st and 2nd and passing on 3rd is predictable and won't likely lead to many big plays.
(09-18-2017, 10:35 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]2016 Game Plan (should have been):
Don't Promote the QB Coach to Offensive Coordinator when your QB has significantly regressed.
Agreed but I think that move was more about keep familiarity with Bortles so Coughlin can fully evaluate Bortles ability. At this point it kind of is what we all thought. But we gotta figure something out this year. The schedule is cake and there is opportunity to win games.
(09-18-2017, 10:33 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Now we all are upset about what we have at qb but nothing can change that. So let's focus on what the offensive game plan should be going forward.
Offensively we should place a major emphasis on the run game. We have a qb that cannot throw the ball or read a defense but let's place that to the side. The biggest issue is that he turns the ball over at an extr really high rate. If we focus on the run it place us in manageable down and distance. Using play action, role outs, options play and moving the pocket allows Bortles to use his mobility or throw to a dumpoff. At this point that is all we have in the passing game.
2nd and 7 and 3rd and 6 gives you a new play book. Throwing on early downs just is not going to work for this team. Focus on the run period and take the ball out of Bortles had. That will drastically reduce the turnovers and keep us playing the field position games until the defense can get a big play or we wear down their defense.
You don't think they are already doing this? (they are)
Dude, they ran on 7 of the 9 first downs they had in the first half of the game Sunday.
(09-18-2017, 10:46 AM)tkappa511 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 10:33 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Now we all are upset about what we have at qb but nothing can change that. So let's focus on what the offensive game plan should be going forward.
Offensively we should place a major emphasis on the run game. We have a qb that cannot throw the ball or read a defense but let's place that to the side. The biggest issue is that he turns the ball over at an extr really high rate. If we focus on the run it place us in manageable down and distance. Using play action, role outs, options play and moving the pocket allows Bortles to use his mobility or throw to a dumpoff. At this point that is all we have in the passing game.
2nd and 7 and 3rd and 6 gives you a new play book. Throwing on early downs just is not going to work for this team. Focus on the run period and take the ball out of Bortles had. That will drastically reduce the turnovers and keep us playing the field position games until the defense can get a big play or we wear down their defense.
Hey Forrest, This already is the game plan.
I felt like this should be reiterated because this is exactly what we didn't do yesterday. Giving your top 4 pick 14 carries and your struggling qb 42 pass attempts seems like the opposite. You can say that's the game plan but that's not what I saw yesterday. I saw a team trying to get. It's throwing on 1st and 10 and panicking when they got a penalty that backed them up. Even in that scenario run the ball andtry to create a manageable 3rd down or just punt and play feild position.
I'll admit special teams hurt this team as well but I saw a team trying to mix in passing with the run. That will not work. We have to run until we have to have pass. That is the only was to cut down the turnover and stay in the game
(09-18-2017, 10:58 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 10:33 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Now we all are upset about what we have at qb but nothing can change that. So let's focus on what the offensive game plan should be going forward.
Offensively we should place a major emphasis on the run game. We have a qb that cannot throw the ball or read a defense but let's place that to the side. The biggest issue is that he turns the ball over at an extr really high rate. If we focus on the run it place us in manageable down and distance. Using play action, role outs, options play and moving the pocket allows Bortles to use his mobility or throw to a dumpoff. At this point that is all we have in the passing game.
2nd and 7 and 3rd and 6 gives you a new play book. Throwing on early downs just is not going to work for this team. Focus on the run period and take the ball out of Bortles had. That will drastically reduce the turnovers and keep us playing the field position games until the defense can get a big play or we wear down their defense.
You don't think they are already doing this? (they are)
Dude, they ran on 7 of the 9 first downs they had in the first half of the game Sunday.
What are the stats on that in the second half cause that's when the game got out of hand?
(09-18-2017, 10:57 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]That's already the game plan until the other team takes a 2 score lead in the 2nd half and then you have to largely abandon the run.
That being said, you do have to keep defenses on their toes by throwing on 1st or 2nd down occasionally even if your QB is what Blake is. Fournette is great about getting an extra yard or two that other backs wouldn't get, but you can't be playing to get to 3rd and short every series because you aren't going to convert 3rd downs at 75% or probably even at 50% consistently. Jags are currently ranked 21st in the league with a 36% 3rd down conversion rate. It's going to have to be a lot better than that combined with fewer turnovers for this team to win more games than it loses or we'll need to somehow manufacture more big plays. Running on 1st and 2nd and passing on 3rd is predictable and won't likely lead to many big plays.
I agree but that has to be the game plan. If Blake has to drop back chances are something horrible will happen. We aren't just talking about an inaccurate guy. We are talking about someone who will give up multiple turnovers a game. That's what I see. When you turn the ball over 3 times you will lose 99% of the time. This is why we have been losing. You can't average almost 2 turnovers a game and expect to win. That has to be addressed first and the only way to stop that is limit to amount of times the ball is in Blakes hand.
(09-18-2017, 11:03 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 10:46 AM)tkappa511 Wrote: [ -> ]Hey Forrest, This already is the game plan.
(09-18-2017, 10:58 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You don't think they are already doing this? (they are)
Dude, they ran on 7 of the 9 first downs they had in the first half of the game Sunday.
What are the stats on that in the second half cause that's when the game got out of hand?
When the game is "out of hand" are you suggesting they not attempt to win? I mean, you can't go all ground and pound when you're down by three scores and have 12 minutes on the clock.
We all know that putting the ball in Blake's hands is a crapshoot at best, but you aren't going to come from behind without throwing the football. You just can't. Especially when your opponent has begun to have success stopping your run game.
(09-18-2017, 10:35 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]2016 Game Plan (should have been):
Don't Promote the QB Coach to Offensive Coordinator when your QB has significantly regressed.
I was led to believe that Bortles was doing well under Marrone
We'll have to see how the receivers come along in the next few games, but right now it looks like ARob might be worth whatever he's gonna ask for. Blake had the most success during ARob's best year where he was catching almost every contested ball. He didn't do that as well last year which I believe was due to a lot of missed PI calls and frustration with the QB play (being a bit of a diva on the field is definitely a concern), but his presence on the field seems to have been missed greatly yesterday.
(09-18-2017, 11:24 AM)The Hammer Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 10:35 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]2016 Game Plan (should have been):
Don't Promote the QB Coach to Offensive Coordinator when your QB has significantly regressed.
I was led to believe that Bortles was doing well under Marrone
He was. That was his first bad game under Marrone. No one in that article or thread said Bortles was a good QB. In fact it was primarily the opposite.
(09-18-2017, 11:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 11:03 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]
What are the stats on that in the second half cause that's when the game got out of hand?
When the game is "out of hand" are you suggesting they not attempt to win? I mean, you can't go all ground and pound when you're down by three scores and have 12 minutes on the clock.
We all know that putting the ball in Blake's hands is a crapshoot at best, but you aren't going to come from behind without throwing the football. You just can't. Especially when your opponent has begun to have success stopping your run game.
The score was 6-3 by half time and 9-3 5 minutes into the third quarter. Right after we come out of the half Bortles immediately throws a pick. The play calling was 1 and 10 Fournette for 4 yards, 2 and 6 incomplete pass, 3 and 6 interception. You have to run again on second down. At that point. The kid can't throw twice in a row without a turn over. That's my point. I'm would think we are better off having a three and out then even attempt to pass the ball because he will turn the ball over.
My gripe isn't that he can't play we all know that. We have to stop turning the ballover 2-4 times a game and that starts with limiting his passes attempts in general.
(09-18-2017, 11:35 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 11:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]When the game is "out of hand" are you suggesting they not attempt to win? I mean, you can't go all ground and pound when you're down by three scores and have 12 minutes on the clock.
We all know that putting the ball in Blake's hands is a crapshoot at best, but you aren't going to come from behind without throwing the football. You just can't. Especially when your opponent has begun to have success stopping your run game.
The score was 6-3 by half time and 9-3 5 minutes into the third quarter. Right after we come out of the half Bortles immediately throws a pick. The play calling was 1 and 10 Fournette for 4 yards, 2 and 6 incomplete pass, 3 and 6 interception. You have to run again on second down. At that point. The kid can't throw twice in a row without a turn over. That's my point. I'm would think we are better off having a three and out then even attempt to pass the ball because he will turn the ball over.
My gripe isn't that he can't play we all know that. We have to stop turning the ballover 2-4 times a game and that starts with limiting his passes attempts in general.
Yeah but the thing is, the only reason he had 34 attempts or even anything over 25 is because we were down 2 scores in the 2nd half. They were limiting his attempts. He only had 12 attempts in the 1st half. Never throwing on 1st or 2nd isn't an option in pro football. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't focus on the run early to setup 3rd and short, but you have to pass there occasionally. You're trying to drive a square peg of a point through the round hole of reality here.
(09-18-2017, 11:51 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 11:35 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]The score was 6-3 by half time and 9-3 5 minutes into the third quarter. Right after we come out of the half Bortles immediately throws a pick. The play calling was 1 and 10 Fournette for 4 yards, 2 and 6 incomplete pass, 3 and 6 interception. You have to run again on second down. At that point. The kid can't throw twice in a row without a turn over. That's my point. I'm would think we are better off having a three and out then even attempt to pass the ball because he will turn the ball over.
My gripe isn't that he can't play we all know that. We have to stop turning the ballover 2-4 times a game and that starts with limiting his passes attempts in general.
Yeah but the thing is, the only reason he had 34 attempts or even anything over 25 is because we were down 2 scores in the 2nd half. They were limiting his attempts. He only had 12 attempts in the 1st half. Never throwing on 1st or 2nd isn't an option in pro football. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't focus on the run early to setup 3rd and short, but you have to pass there occasionally. You're trying to drive a square peg of a point through the round hole of reality here.
I personally understand that is not optional in pro football but there is no other option. Again if you turn the ball over 3 times agave you will lose. All the other stuff doesn't even matter. You turn the ballover three time and you lose. We have to figure out how not to turn the all over at a high rate and that starts by taking the ball out of Blakes hands. We do not have a pro qb so we cannot play pro ball, hence why we saw some option stuff last week. As long as Blake is here that is how we have to play.
To me driving the square peg is continuing to give the ball to a turnover machine and telling him to go win the game. That hasn't worked since he got here. We haven't won more than 5 games since he's been here lol. Asking him to do anything will result in a loss. That to me is reality.
It is no longer a game plan issue. We doubled down on the existing coaches so I'm not sure it is a coaching issue. This type of game plan will always require near perfect execution because you are covering for the liability present at QB.
Looks like we are going to see up and down play all year because of the limitations we have at QB. The guy aims the ball and makes every pass seem like a major effort. He has a serviceable Offensive line but no help at TE either so it all comes down to playing with a lead.
(09-18-2017, 11:24 AM)The Hammer Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2017, 10:35 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]2016 Game Plan (should have been):
Don't Promote the QB Coach to Offensive Coordinator when your QB has significantly regressed.
I was led to believe that Bortles was doing well under Marrone
You apparently didn't follow any of the Jaguars preseason.
I don't want to keep killing the qb. It is what it is. I'm just trying to figure out what we can do to still win some games. It's early in the season and other teams have won before with horrible quarterbacks. This tanking thing is getting old.
(09-18-2017, 12:19 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]This photo and explanation fits very well
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bigg...tp#image=1
Slide 17 is lazy journalism which seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. They were limiting his attempts as I explained above.
The game plan didn't lose us the game yesterday. It's just unfortunately the only game plan we can roll with because of Blake as you mentioned before. There's really 0 margin for error (unless the D does what it did in week 1 and puts up points for us) and we had way too many errors yesterday. This one came down to penalties and turnovers. The first turnover was on Cam's inability to slow down Orakpo on the sack fumble. The two interceptions were largely Blake's fault. The first being a pretty big swing in the game. We were on the cusp of being in FG range and probably were in range for Myers if we absolutely had to kick. He threw an ill advised low pass which was tipped at the line and intercepted and the tacks drove down the field to get their own FG right before the half. That's a 6 point swing in what was a defensive battle at the time. The second was Blake's inaccuracy on display as he threw behind Lee who reached back for it and tipped it up for the 2nd INT.
You can throw some INTs and still be successful. Most QBs in the league throw their share. Blake not only throws a lot of them, he also does it in such a back breaking way. Last year he put points on the board for the other team or set the opponent up in scoring position on a regular basis. Yesterday, he pretty much took points off the board for us and then our D who did an admirable job as long as they could were unable to prevent the tacks from getting a FG as time expired at the end of the half.