Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-02-2017, 08:43 AM)BklynJag Wrote: [ -> ]How did he walk through a hotel with a huge gun.

It's Vegas.  They have so many large events going on there from day to day that it wouldn't be unusual to see someone walk it with large containers that could be explained away easily as vendor material or samples for XYZ Convention.  It's not like hotels are checking luggage.  The guy didn't waltz into a hotel with a big rifle slung over his shoulder.

(10-02-2017, 10:53 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't take y'all long to move from sadness and shock to a debate over gun control.

The gun control mantra started within a matter of minutes, and has gotten steadily louder throughout the day.  

(10-02-2017, 11:28 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 09:16 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think we should regulate that a little better?

3 things you can't take away from rednecks ... NASCAR, Tobacco, and Guns

Nothing like using a little ignorant stereotyping, huh?

I'm not a NASCAR or tobacco fan.  I'm definitely not a redneck.  I do own guns, as do many of my friends.  

(10-02-2017, 11:52 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 10:53 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't take y'all long to move from sadness and shock to a debate over gun control.

And Hillary beat them to it.

Yes, the new issue is the NRA trying to make suppressors easier to get.  According to Hillary, had the shooter used a silencer, nobody would have been aware they were being shot at and there could have been more victims.  The shooter didn't use a silencer, so this is nothing more than a straw man argument.

(10-02-2017, 12:36 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:33 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Ahhh the good ol "We need more regulation" argument...

Because regulation and prohibition works SO WELL for the US Gov't.

Can't we at least ask the question?  How did he get an automatic weapon?  How many other people have automatic weapons?  

Aren't those perfectly reasonable questions?

It's a great question.  We should start a registry of all those who own fully automatic weapons legally.

Oh wait.  It already exists.

The government can regulate to their hearts content.  They can pile on the laws as deep as they want.  If someone has a will to convert a weapon from semi to fully automatic, there's nothing you're going to do to curb that.  Laws only impact those who are law abiding.  With a minimum level of gun smithing skills, and access to Youtube, you can convert just about any semi-automatic weapon into a fully automatic one.  I've seen gun shops post videos of fully automatic Glocks.  This isn't some intricate technology that requires a degree in engineering.  

The bottom line here is that if someone wants to do evil, and they want to do it using a gun that is fully automatic, they're probably not going through the proper channels to make that happen.  It's kind of like all the shootings in Chicago.  How many of those do you think are committed using legally registered firearms discharged by law abiding citizens?

BTW, there was a terror attack in Canada over the weekend.  Dude used a truck and a knife to run over several people, and stab a police officer.  Should we look into regulating UHaul rentals and knife sales too?

(10-02-2017, 12:56 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know anything for sure, but my guess is that he modified a semi-automatic into an automatic. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't know of any other way. Unless he had a permit to own automatic weapons which means he had gone through a very intense vetting process already.

Well, yes, he probably modified a semi automatic weapon into an automatic weapon.  But I want to know how he did that.  Where did he get the parts?  Who sold him the parts?  How easy is it to do this?  How many other people have done this? 

I'm not asking for any new gun control, because it is already illegal to own an automatic weapon.

It is not illegal for certain models. All you need is a $200 tax stamp and usually permission from the local sheriff and application to the ATF. It falls under the NFA. Under that you can buy tanks, bazookas, grenade launchers anti-tank weapons. But it is not cheap to do it legally.

(10-02-2017, 12:38 PM)Frailbones Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:14 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I hate NASCAR and tobacco, but nobody is taking my guns. The reality is, you couldn't do it anyway. It would start a civil war. Besides, like 99.9% of the legal gun owners in America, I'm not the type of person you have to worry about. Every gun owner I know is a law abiding citizen who either uses their firearms for home protection, hunting, sports or simply as part of a collection. It's the crazy people who are the dangerous ones and they only make up a miniscule fraction of the population. It takes a truly unstable person to fire at a random crowd full of innocent concert goers, who are just out for a good time. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

I don't think anyone is arguing that this dude is a stable person.

I think what most people want is to make it harder for everyone to buy guns. Not take away your guns but lets make it very difficult to get them. Even if it deters one crazy person from buying a gun because it's that hard, it's worth it.

Buying illegal guns will still happen but I have no clue where to buy them. Couldn't even tell you where to start. This guy most likely didn't buy his off the street.

What harm is done by attempting to limit the amount of guns a person can legally buy and having it become harder to buy a gun?

Really? There are gun shows all over, flea markets, craigslist, the dark web and back alleys where illegal guns are bought and sold. Getting an illegal gun is way easier than purchasing one from a store. In a store, they do intense background checks, you fill out tons of paperwork which is then called in, to be verified by government officials and then in some cases, there is a waiting period. If you don't pass everything on that background check, you don't get the gun. I used to work at a retail store in the sporting goods department where we sold guns. I had to turn down many people for one reason or another and these were just basic guns. Purchasing a legally bought firearm, is not easy by any means. People who have never bought a gun just assume you walk in, pay the money and walk out. That's not how it works at all.

(10-02-2017, 11:28 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 09:16 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think we should regulate that a little better?

3 things you can't take away from rednecks ... NASCAR, Tobacco, and Guns

Otherwise known as Americans, or more appropriately, U.S. citizens.

(10-02-2017, 09:40 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]I liked to hear why this guy was "known" to local law enforcement. Why is it every time there is an incident like this in America we find out they were "know" yet nothing done to stop it? It really has become a pattern. Also, it appears mental illness really is on the rise with little to help to identify and treat it. Is there too large of a social stigma? Man, these situations are useless and devastating.

Usually means he's been arrested but the courts or prisons released him.

(10-02-2017, 10:53 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't take y'all long to move from sadness and shock to a debate over gun control.

Do you think they're the first to bring up gun control?

(10-02-2017, 11:34 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]An old white terrorist.

That'll be one of the only reasons the media will talk about it, too. I guess the racist black dude shooting up a white church wasn't entertaining enough for everyone.

(10-02-2017, 12:17 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Biggest terrorist attack since 9/11 I think

Beats out Orlando by a few.

He chose a very expensive room which had the very best position for targeting the festival crowd, and was there for four nights. He spent a lot of money acquiring weapons (ten I've heard), much more if they were automatic weapons (we should find out soon). If they weren't already automatic he spent a lot of time learning how to modify them and then actually modifying them without error. His brother said he was not a gun person.

All of this sounds to me as if he had help, but maybe he was competent enough to pull it off alone, which goes against the theory that he was mentally ill.

The picture of the hotel shows TWO windows broken. Why? Did he move from one room to another?

(10-02-2017, 12:56 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:52 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know anything for sure, but my guess is that he modified a semi-automatic into an automatic. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't know of any other way. Unless he had a permit to own automatic weapons which means he had gone through a very intense vetting process already.

Well, yes, he probably modified a semi automatic weapon into an automatic weapon.  But I want to know how he did that.  Where did he get the parts?  Who sold him the parts?  How easy is it to do this?  How many other people have done this? 

I'm not asking for any new gun control, because it is already illegal to own an automatic weapon.

I know it's very easy. In many cases you don't even need special parts to make the modifications and it can be done at home with everyday tools. Personally, I don't know anyone who does it, because they don't wanna go to federal prison and they have no reason to lower the value of the guns. I would think that only someone who is up to no good, would want to modify a firearm into an automatic. Either that, or some stupid kid who isn't thinking about the consequences and just wants to show off. There's probably "how to" videos on Youtube giving step by step instructions of doing the conversions.

(10-02-2017, 10:53 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't take y'all long to move from sadness and shock to a debate over gun control.

There's a post for that kind of stuff in the proper forum.

(10-02-2017, 01:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 12:56 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Well, yes, he probably modified a semi automatic weapon into an automatic weapon.  But I want to know how he did that.  Where did he get the parts?  Who sold him the parts?  How easy is it to do this?  How many other people have done this? 

I'm not asking for any new gun control, because it is already illegal to own an automatic weapon.

I know it's very easy. In many cases you don't even need special parts to make the modifications and it can be done at home with everyday tools. Personally, I don't know anyone who does it, because they don't wanna go to federal prison and they have no reason to lower the value of the guns. I would think that only someone who is up to no good, would want to modify a firearm into an automatic. Either that, or some stupid kid who isn't thinking about the consequences and just wants to show off. There's probably "how to" videos on Youtube giving step by step instructions of doing the conversions.

There are videos on YouTube showing how to, and then the end result.  As I mentioned above, I've actually seen one using a Glock 17.  I don't believe they even needed any special components.  Using a few tools most households have, they were able to make the mod to take it from semi to fully automatic. It served no purpose other than for laughs at the range.  Now, this was a gun shop that demonstrated how easily any semi-automatic weapon could be converted, but it doesn't require a gunsmith to make the modifications.  That much was clear.

I do agree that the threat of prison time is a big motivator to NOT do the conversion.  I also think that for most gun owners, anything that devalues a weapon is usually avoided since most firearms are a pretty significant investment.  Still, you can go buy a dirt cheap High Point and convert it if you want, turning it into basically an Uzi.

(10-02-2017, 01:13 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]The picture of the hotel shows TWO windows broken. Why? Did he move from one room to another?

Main room and bathroom. Gave him. two vantage points. One where the people were, 2nd to cover where they were running to. Sicko, but not crazy.

(10-02-2017, 01:26 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 01:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I know it's very easy. In many cases you don't even need special parts to make the modifications and it can be done at home with everyday tools. Personally, I don't know anyone who does it, because they don't wanna go to federal prison and they have no reason to lower the value of the guns. I would think that only someone who is up to no good, would want to modify a firearm into an automatic. Either that, or some stupid kid who isn't thinking about the consequences and just wants to show off. There's probably "how to" videos on Youtube giving step by step instructions of doing the conversions.

There are videos on YouTube showing how to, and then the end result.  As I mentioned above, I've actually seen one using a Glock 17.  I don't believe they even needed any special components.  Using a few tools most households have, they were able to make the mod to take it from semi to fully automatic. It served no purpose other than for laughs at the range.  Now, this was a gun shop that demonstrated how easily any semi-automatic weapon could be converted, but it doesn't require a gunsmith to make the modifications.  That much was clear.

I do agree that the threat of prison time is a big motivator to NOT do the conversion.  I also think that for most gun owners, anything that devalues a weapon is usually avoided since most firearms are a pretty significant investment.  Still, you can go buy a dirt cheap High Point and convert it if you want, turning it into basically an Uzi.

Not to get off topic, but if you modified a High Point, you'd have constant jams. Those guns can barely handle being semi-automatic, much less automatic.

The sad fact is we would have to live in an unacceptable police state to keep guns out of the hands of someone who would do something like this.

(10-02-2017, 01:32 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]The sad fact is we would have to live in an unacceptable police state to keep guns out of the hands of someone who would do something like this.

True. There are no easy solutions. It would be great if there was, but that's just not the world we live in.

(10-02-2017, 01:28 PM)jseymour Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 01:13 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]The picture of the hotel shows TWO windows broken. Why? Did he move from one room to another?

Main room and bathroom. Gave him. two vantage points. One where the people were, 2nd to cover where they were running to. Sicko, but not crazy.

Someone like this can still be crazy while being calculated.  Look at the Columbine or Aurora theater shootings.  The perpetrators in both of those incidents were hardly sane, but they had well laid out plans to assure maximum casualties.  

We will eventually find out what motivated this guy.  Someone who pulls a mass casualty effort like this usually has some sort of manifesto to explain why they did what they did. 

(10-02-2017, 01:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 01:26 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]There are videos on YouTube showing how to, and then the end result.  As I mentioned above, I've actually seen one using a Glock 17.  I don't believe they even needed any special components.  Using a few tools most households have, they were able to make the mod to take it from semi to fully automatic. It served no purpose other than for laughs at the range.  Now, this was a gun shop that demonstrated how easily any semi-automatic weapon could be converted, but it doesn't require a gunsmith to make the modifications.  That much was clear.

I do agree that the threat of prison time is a big motivator to NOT do the conversion.  I also think that for most gun owners, anything that devalues a weapon is usually avoided since most firearms are a pretty significant investment.  Still, you can go buy a dirt cheap High Point and convert it if you want, turning it into basically an Uzi.

Not to get off topic, but if you modified a High Point, you'd have constant jams. Those guns can barely handle being semi-automatic, much less automatic.

lol - They are garbage, but you get the point. 

(10-02-2017, 01:32 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]The sad fact is we would have to live in an unacceptable police state to keep guns out of the hands of someone who would do something like this.

It's difficult to sniff someone out if they maintain a law abiding lifestyle, don't have any overt displays of mental illness, or open hostilities that might tip their hand to potential evil doing.  It's possible this guy had issues that would have been red flags, and it's also possible that he was able to obtain firearms illegally had they been known.  All of this will eventually come out.  There's a whole lot of speculation about what motivated this, but nobody knows for sure at this point.

(10-02-2017, 01:00 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 11:28 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]3 things you can't take away from rednecks ... NASCAR, Tobacco, and Guns

Nothing like using a little ignorant stereotyping, huh?

I'm not a NASCAR or tobacco fan.  I'm definitely not a redneck.  I do own guns, as do many of my friends.  

I don't think you got the equation.  I never said all gun owners were rednecks.

(10-02-2017, 01:32 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]The sad fact is we would have to live in an unacceptable police state to keep guns out of the hands of someone who would do something like this.

It's really going to suck for the Left if it turns out that these guns were from the Fast and Furious scandal, because it's REALLY hard to keep illegal guns out of the hands of criminals when the federal government is the distributor.

Is there anything to suggest Stephen Paddock was the shooter? The shots came from a room he rented and he is dead of an alleged self-inflicted gunshot. But what's the motivation? He didn't like country music? How did he get all this machinery into the hotel? Did he use NFA automatic weapons? They are tightly controlled.

(10-02-2017, 02:35 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Is there anything to suggest Stephen Paddock was the shooter?  The shots came from a room he rented and he is dead of an alleged self-inflicted gunshot.  But what's the motivation?  He didn't like country music?  How did he get all this machinery into the hotel?  Did he use NFA automatic weapons?  They are tightly controlled.

Is there anything to suggest he wasn't the shooter? What does Alex Jones think?

(10-02-2017, 02:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-02-2017, 02:35 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Is there anything to suggest Stephen Paddock was the shooter?  The shots came from a room he rented and he is dead of an alleged self-inflicted gunshot.  But what's the motivation?  He didn't like country music?  How did he get all this machinery into the hotel?  Did he use NFA automatic weapons?  They are tightly controlled.

Is there anything to suggest he wasn't the shooter? What does Alex Jones think?

That one threw me off as well.

I'm guessing the fact that the SWAT Team blew down his hotel room door as he blew off his own head with one of his semiautomatic weapons lead the police to believe that he may have had something to do with the mass murders.

I was just in Louisville Saturday night for a pretty huge outdoor musical festival and I was literally thinking that if someone wanted to do something terrible like this, it would be so damn easy to do it.

I don't have any answers on how you control something like this, all I can say is that it is total [BLEEP] that you can't go out and enjoy yourself without having to have that thought in the back of your mind that some crazy son of a [BLEEP] might just set off a bomb or start gunning people down for some stupid [BLEEP] belief or whatever the reason is.