(10-05-2017, 05:14 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2017, 04:59 PM)JaguarsWoman Wrote: [ -> ]Family considerations is one of countless major issues and, unfortunately, forgotten by all the people who think the biggest problem is geography. Of course it also applies to coaches and training staff.
I never liked the idea of having regular season games in London. Why can't they just do it in preseason like when Paul Tagliabue was the commissioner?
Part of the family considerations equation is geography. It's difficult for family members to be away from the United States for long periods of time. Even more so than for players, coaches, and trainers. All of which have long days of preparation during most of the week.
The reason for regular season games in London is it's a much greater money making opportunity for the NFL. Being that the NFL has 4 games this season in London, compared to 3 in recent seasons, it's evident that the NFL likes the numbers that these games are producing.
Especially if the players have little kids. What I meant was all people seem to talk about publicly is passports, jet lag, etc. for the participants when they travel.
It would be nice if they could do it in Canada, which would be much easier for everyone involved - and the family members left behind.
(10-05-2017, 05:26 PM)JaguarsWoman Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2017, 05:14 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]Part of the family considerations equation is geography. It's difficult for family members to be away from the United States for long periods of time. Even more so than for players, coaches, and trainers. All of which have long days of preparation during most of the week.
The reason for regular season games in London is it's a much greater money making opportunity for the NFL. Being that the NFL has 4 games this season in London, compared to 3 in recent seasons, it's evident that the NFL likes the numbers that these games are producing.
Especially if the players have little kids. What I meant was all people seem to talk about publicly is passports, jet lag, etc. for the participants when they travel.
It would be nice if they could do it in Canada, which would be much easier for everyone involved - and the family members left behind.
For several years, the Bills played a regular season game every year in Toronto and had a pre-season game every other year in Toronto. Attendance declined substantially and it was discontinued.
(10-05-2017, 06:32 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2017, 05:26 PM)JaguarsWoman Wrote: [ -> ]Especially if the players have little kids. What I meant was all people seem to talk about publicly is passports, jet lag, etc. for the participants when they travel.
It would be nice if they could do it in Canada, which would be much easier for everyone involved - and the family members left behind.
For several years, the Bills played a regular season game every year in Toronto and had a pre-season game every other year in Toronto. Attendance declined substantially and it was discontinued.
I was just thinking what if a team much better than the Bills did it? Some teams that have been to London (including your Lions) were better than those can't-win-often Bills.
Of course, it is natural Shad Khan volunteered for London when the NFL wanted a game in the UK because he used to live there. I just understand why the NFL ignored all the issues with playing five time zones away.
Let's get back to the topic. I think it is great that Shad Khan can have fun both on and off the job instead of be all business. It's also great that he wanted what the players wanted to do for the Star Spangled Banner.
Khan is gone. I've said it for 3 years; he's taking the team to London. J-mizzal is beyond naive. Investing $75 million into Jacksonville was done ONLY to show Goodall how committed Khan is to the NFL. $75 mil is NOTHING for someone worth $7 billion. If Khan, a globalist takes his show to London----he makes BILLIONS in revenue, not millions. The Jags would instantly be Britain's team. The merchandise, TV deal, etc would be enormous.
Sadly, some of the naive fans are going to be shocked as soon as the NFL and Goodall give Shad the green light.
Bahahaha yes, Shad is so committed to Jacksonville, he's now agreeing to give away TWO home games. Wake up sheep.
(10-05-2017, 09:44 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is gone. I've said it for 3 years; he's taking the team to London. J-mizzal is beyond naive. Investing $75 million into Jacksonville was done ONLY to show Goodall how committed Khan is to the NFL. $75 mil is NOTHING for someone worth $7 billion. If Khan, a globalist takes his show to London----he makes BILLIONS in revenue, not millions. The Jags would instantly be Britain's team. The merchandise, TV deal, etc would be enormous.
Sadly, some of the naive fans are going to be shocked as soon as the NFL and Goodall give Shad the green light.
Bahahaha yes, Shad is so committed to Jacksonville, he's now agreeing to give away TWO home games. Wake up sheep.
On the contrary, it's a very significant amount of money. Put it in perspective. Keep in mind the lifestyle that he's accustomed to. If your "wealth" is only $7 thousand dollars, spending $75 dollars is a significant chunk out of it (assuming no income) especially when it comes to lifestyle. Also keep in mind that net worth includes properties and possessions.
Sadly, some of the naive Alfie minions think that they know more about Mr. Khan's plans for the future. Of course the Alfie minions are nothing more than sheep.
The team isn't moving.
Khans a smooth mover. Always looking at new deals and business partnership.
I'll say this, if the Jaguars somehow fail in Jacksonville (it won't) it won't be due to a lack of effort and commitment from the owner. It's pretty clear he's working his tail off to make Jacksonville work. If that means flirting with London a bit in the name of business opportunities then so be it.
It suits Khan perfectly to play around with London. He's building a strong brand over in the UK and setting up our future well.
The problem is, if the NFL is really determined to put a team in London, then that would take away our "home" game over there, and negatively impact the revenue of the Jaguars' franchise. Unless the team that moved was the Jaguars.
I don't think Khan would move the team for money. Every time I read his net worth, it's gone up about a billion dollars. I think if he moves, he would move because he loves London.
There are other things to consider, of course. Like the amount of money Khan continues to invest in Jacksonville. And also, the relocation fee will be astronomical. I don't think the logistics are impossible. I could see the London team making long multi-game road trips in the United States, to avoid the problem of constant long plane flights and jet lag.
It's hard to read his intentions, because he seems to love Jacksonville, and he seems to love London as well. I think a lot of it will depend on the progress of the Shipyards project. Does he see Jacksonville developing? Jacksonville is like the girl next door. London is a supermodel.
And with the Jags stable here in Jacksonville after his skills.....who's to say Khan wouldn't be the first to be awarded and own a second team?
The London Rovers.
(10-05-2017, 09:44 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is gone. I've said it for 3 years; he's taking the team to London. J-mizzal is beyond naive. Investing $75 million into Jacksonville was done ONLY to show Goodall how committed Khan is to the NFL. $75 mil is NOTHING for someone worth $7 billion. If Khan, a globalist takes his show to London----he makes BILLIONS in revenue, not millions. The Jags would instantly be Britain's team. The merchandise, TV deal, etc would be enormous.
Sadly, some of the naive fans are going to be shocked as soon as the NFL and Goodall give Shad the green light.
Bahahaha yes, Shad is so committed to Jacksonville, he's now agreeing to give away TWO home games. Wake up sheep.
With the lease agreement, he couldn’t just pull up stakes and move the team without opening up the books to a judge showing the team has lost money for three consecutive years. Either that, or they’d have to prove in the courts that the city has not fulfilled their obligation to maintain the stadium and facilities to match the needs of an NFL franchise. Since neither of those things are going to happen, the odds of the team moving are almost zero.
Naïveté requires one to ignore facts, which you’ve done an outstanding job of in this post.
The cost to move the franchise minus the relocation fee would be closer to $200 million. Considering Khan has all but pledged to invest $500 million into the city aside from the investments made for the team itself, his best position is to stay put, continue to pursue his vision for the team and this city, and turn Jacksonville into a market similar to cities like Nashville or Charlotte. That’s a far more likely approach.
BTW, Khan hasn’t agreed to give up two home games. He has expressed interest in playing back to back games in London. The team has said it would be a home/away scenario. The only sheep here are people like you who continue to perpetuate the notion that this team is destined for London, buying into the media narrative. It’s highly unlikely.
IMO London is being used as a bargaining chip. EverBank Field, even with all the upgrades is due a major renovation in the next five years. That's roughly the same time span the league hopes to put a team in London. I fully expect the Jaguars to shift to two games per year in London (one home, one away) and use their London fanbase as an argument in negotiations with the city for said renovations.
(10-05-2017, 11:31 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not liking Kahn's or Lamping's response to the question.
Yeah, that is the kind of noncommitment I expect at this point. I kind of hope we do play 2 games in London in a row, even if its home games. Will decrease the chances of us moving IMO as it will strengthen our ties. Like I have always said, we won't know if its really gonna happen till another team tries to 'steal' London from Khan. Then we will see how far his commitment really goes. 175 million for upgrades isn't much to a guy who spends 200 million on a yacht, especially when you consider he will get 10 years of use out of it.
(10-06-2017, 11:34 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]IMO London is being used as a bargaining chip. EverBank Field, even with all the upgrades is due a major renovation in the next five years. That's roughly the same time span the league hopes to put a team in London. I fully expect the Jaguars to shift to two games per year in London (one home, one away) and use their London fanbase as an argument in negotiations with the city for said renovations.
Agree, if we don't have a new stadium being built in 5 years, we will probably lose the Jags. The only part I disagree is that it will be two 'away' games. Khan wants the London revenue, needs to be home games to maximize that. If the NFL goes to an 18 game schedule, 2 games in London is a done deal.
(10-06-2017, 08:27 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2017, 09:44 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is gone. I've said it for 3 years; he's taking the team to London. J-mizzal is beyond naive. Investing $75 million into Jacksonville was done ONLY to show Goodall how committed Khan is to the NFL. $75 mil is NOTHING for someone worth $7 billion. If Khan, a globalist takes his show to London----he makes BILLIONS in revenue, not millions. The Jags would instantly be Britain's team. The merchandise, TV deal, etc would be enormous.
Sadly, some of the naive fans are going to be shocked as soon as the NFL and Goodall give Shad the green light.
Bahahaha yes, Shad is so committed to Jacksonville, he's now agreeing to give away TWO home games. Wake up sheep.
With the lease agreement, he couldn’t just pull up stakes and move the team without opening up the books to a judge showing the team has lost money for three consecutive years. Either that, or they’d have to prove in the courts that the city has not fulfilled their obligation to maintain the stadium and facilities to match the needs of an NFL franchise. Since neither of those things are going to happen, the odds of the team moving are almost zero.
Naïveté requires one to ignore facts, which you’ve done an outstanding job of in this post.
The cost to move the franchise minus the relocation fee would be closer to $200 million. Considering Khan has all but pledged to invest $500 million into the city aside from the investments made for the team itself, his best position is to stay put, continue to pursue his vision for the team and this city, and turn Jacksonville into a market similar to cities like Nashville or Charlotte. That’s a far more likely approach.
BTW, Khan hasn’t agreed to give up two home games. He has expressed interest in playing back to back games in London. The team has said it would be a home/away scenario. The only sheep here are people like you who continue to perpetuate the notion that this team is destined for London, buying into the media narrative. It’s highly unlikely.
He can make money here while moving the Jags, they don't have to go together. Waterfront property will still be valuable. We have already talked about the lease penalty of 100 million. Its not that much if your franchise goes up a billion in value. Relocation fee even at 500 million would still be a net gain.
Non-commitment is the opposite of what Mark Lamping said. He made it clear that the reason for all this London business is to "strengthen Jacksonville."
(10-06-2017, 03:39 PM)JaguarsWoman Wrote: [ -> ]Non-commitment is the opposite of what Mark Lamping said. He made it clear that the reason for all this London business is to "strengthen Jacksonville."
JW just trust us on this one. He didn't commit to Jacksonville. This is classic double speak, and not something that is easily explained in a concrete manner, but I will try.
Imagine a scenario where a Guy asks a girl on a romantic date:
Guy: Hey you want to go watch the notebook together?
Girl: Movies are good, I really enjoy watching them with you.
Guy: So we meeting up Friday?
Girl: You know I can't answer that.
This guy wants a date. The girl said that movies are good, and she enjoys watching them with him. But when he actually asks her to come do it, she says she cannot answer (i.e. can't commit). In other words, even tho she said that movies are good and that she enjoys watching them with that guy, she doesn't like going on dates with him enough to plan to actually do it. Or she is lying and really doesn't like the guy at all, and is saying nice things to make him feel better.
That is the difference between 'we are strengthening jacksonville' and ' we have no plans to move.' One of them is a statement that is not directly related to the question. Someone else can explain further if you don't understand.
(10-06-2017, 03:47 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]JW just trust us on this one. He didn't commit to Jacksonville. This is classic double speak, and not something that is easily explained in a concrete manner, but I will try.
Imagine a scenario where a Guy asks a girl on a romantic date:
Guy: Hey you want to go watch the notebook together?
Girl: Movies are good, I really enjoy watching them with you.
Guy: So we meeting up Friday?
Girl: You know I can't answer that.
This guy wants a date. The girl said that movies are good, and she enjoys watching them with him. But when he actually asks her to come do it, she says she cannot answer (i.e. can't commit). In other words, even tho she said that movies are good and that she enjoys watching them with that guy, she doesn't like going on dates with him enough to plan to actually do it. Or she is lying and really doesn't like the guy at all, and is saying nice things to make him feel better.
That is the difference between 'we are strengthening jacksonville' and ' we have no plans to move.' One of them is a statement that is not directly related to the question. Someone else can explain further if you don't understand.
I don't see a comparison there because "strengthen Jacksonville" is a clear intent. "I really enjoy watching movies" does not show an intent to watch the movie.
(10-05-2017, 06:51 PM)JaguarsWoman Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2017, 06:32 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]For several years, the Bills played a regular season game every year in Toronto and had a pre-season game every other year in Toronto. Attendance declined substantially and it was discontinued.
I was just thinking what if a team much better than the Bills did it? Some teams that have been to London (including your Lions) were better than those can't-win-often Bills.
Of course, it is natural Shad Khan volunteered for London when the NFL wanted a game in the UK because he used to live there. I just understand why the NFL ignored all the issues with playing five time zones away.
One of end results of the Toronto experiment with the Bills relates to the Jaguars situation. Being that Toronto is only around 90 miles from Buffalo, it was assumed that Bills games would get strong support there. It didn't happen, especially the longer the Bills played games in Toronto.
Dean Spanos is finding out that the 100 or so mile difference between San Diego and Los Angeles should be measured in light years. Most of San Diego wants no part of the LA Chargers, except for them to fail.
Based on what's transpired in Toronto and in Los Angeles, it would be a mistake for the Jaguars to play regular season games as the ' home' team in Orlando. The team is better off continuing the London series.
(10-06-2017, 04:10 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]One of end results of the Toronto experiment with the Bills relates to the Jaguars situation. Being that Toronto is only around 90 miles from Buffalo, it was assumed that Bills games would get strong support there. It didn't happen, especially the longer the Bills played games in Toronto.
Dean Spanos is finding out that the 100 or so mile difference between San Diego and Los Angeles should be measured in light years. Most of San Diego wants no part of the LA Chargers, except for them to fail.
Based on what's transpired in Toronto and in Los Angeles, it would be a mistake for the Jaguars to play regular season games as the 'home' team in Orlando. The team is better off continuing the London series.
Actually I was thinking about the Patriots playing in Toronto. Surely they would rather root for a perennial winner, right?
But since you're on the idea of moving south, there is this: the Packers played a home game in Milwaukee for several years. How did that turn out?
I have gone back and forth on this issue but have come to the personal conclusion that the Jags will eventually relocate. Unlike most people who do, I don't think Shad secretly wants to move but believe that he (or whoever is the owner after him) will have no choice because the league is really becoming oriented towards mega-markets, now more than ever and I don't see that change slowing. I wouldn't be surprised in the next 20 years to see most of the bottom 5 or 10 markets relocate for mega-markets maybe outside of the US. Hope I'm wrong but I think that's just where professional sports on the scale of the NFL is going.
(10-06-2017, 08:27 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (10-05-2017, 09:44 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is gone. I've said it for 3 years; he's taking the team to London. J-mizzal is beyond naive. Investing $75 million into Jacksonville was done ONLY to show Goodall how committed Khan is to the NFL. $75 mil is NOTHING for someone worth $7 billion. If Khan, a globalist takes his show to London----he makes BILLIONS in revenue, not millions. The Jags would instantly be Britain's team. The merchandise, TV deal, etc would be enormous.
Sadly, some of the naive fans are going to be shocked as soon as the NFL and Goodall give Shad the green light.
Bahahaha yes, Shad is so committed to Jacksonville, he's now agreeing to give away TWO home games. Wake up sheep.
With the lease agreement, he couldn’t just pull up stakes and move the team without opening up the books to a judge showing the team has lost money for three consecutive years. Either that, or they’d have to prove in the courts that the city has not fulfilled their obligation to maintain the stadium and facilities to match the needs of an NFL franchise. Since neither of those things are going to happen, the odds of the team moving are almost zero.
Naïveté requires one to ignore facts, which you’ve done an outstanding job of in this post.
The cost to move the franchise minus the relocation fee would be closer to $200 million. Considering Khan has all but pledged to invest $500 million into the city aside from the investments made for the team itself, his best position is to stay put, continue to pursue his vision for the team and this city, and turn Jacksonville into a market similar to cities like Nashville or Charlotte. That’s a far more likely approach.
BTW, Khan hasn’t agreed to give up two home games. He has expressed interest in playing back to back games in London. The team has said it would be a home/away scenario. The only sheep here are people like you who continue to perpetuate the notion that this team is destined for London, buying into the media narrative. It’s highly unlikely.
I agree with what you said, except for the part about the lease. My impression is that he has two options: walk away from the lease by paying the penalty, which does not require him to open the books, or, walk away without a penalty, which would require him to jump through hoops, prove he lost money, open the books, etc etc.
So, I may be wrong, but this is the way I remember it- he doesn't have to open the books if he pays the penalty, which as I recall would come to something like 100 million dollars.
This whole London deal- to me, the NFL would be much better off just rotating a slate of games through London with different teams playing there. It would give the fans over there a chance to see their favorite teams, provide profits for teams that are struggling to make money in their home cities, and alleviate the need to move a team there, with all the logistical and financial hassles of basing themselves over there. I don't know why the fans in London would want their own team, when they can in effect have all the teams.
And I'll repeat something I said before. People who think Khan would move the team to make money are ignoring the fact that, if you look at how Khan's net worth has risen since buying the team- it's gone up by 4 or 5 BILLION dollars since he bought the team-
the guy is making billions of dollars selling bumpers. He doesn't need to move the team to make money. So I don't think money would be his motivation for moving the team. It would have to be some other reason.
(10-07-2017, 05:53 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]And I'll repeat something I said before. People who think Khan would move the team to make money are ignoring the fact that, if you look at how Khan's net worth has risen since buying the team- it's gone up by 4 or 5 BILLION dollars since he bought the team- the guy is making billions of dollars selling bumpers. He doesn't need to move the team to make money. So I don't think money would be his motivation for moving the team. It would have to be some other reason.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha...683810243f
Forbes' update from two weeks ago had us as the 25th most valuable franchise at 2.07 billion dollars. It was estimated a London franchise right now would be worth just north of 4 billion, 2nd only to the Cowboys 4.8 billion. This doesn't include the monopoly a London franchise would have with a lot of extremely lucrative revenue streams being the only team in Europe. You don't think that's going to tempt Shad, or whichever other owner? It doesn't matter how rich you are, 2+ billion dollars is going to get your juices flowing. If the logistics can be overcome, someone will be volunteering to move their team there. There might even be a fight over it.
I think it's going to be fairly simple to know if it's going to be us or not. Sometime in the not near but not far future, Shad is going to ask the city for a brand new stadium that is at least half if not more publicly funded. If the city agrees they will stay, if not they will go the London route.