Anquan wants back in and the Bills say they'll trade his rights - worth a 6th or 7th rounder?
Just askin'
(10-27-2017, 11:39 AM)Billycool Jag Wrote: [ -> ]Anquan wants back in and the Bills say they'll trade his rights - worth a 6th or 7th rounder?
Just askin'
Nope. He's old and never really was a burner. I'd rather bring in some young guys.
(10-27-2017, 10:49 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 10:40 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Who is overly impressed?
I'm just saying he's pretty good depth. LF is the workhorse... can't have a bunch of studs at every depth position lol
I'm not saying he should start or get too many more carries. He has more value as a backup than some 6th or 7th round draft pick.
No, he doesn't. We should constantly be looking to upgrade our weakest positions. Backup RB is a weak position, especially when it appears we will be dumping Ivory after the season. I believe we can find a much better change of pace RB in the mid to late rounds of the draft. If we could get a late round pick for Yeldon, take it and use it towards possibly drafting a 2nd QB, (as a backup plan.) I fully advocate drafting a couple of QB's in the next draft. One early and one late.
I'm not interested in getting into a back and forth about it.
We're at the point where we are cutting late round picks.
Yeldon isn't the star of our offense and I'd be more worried about depth at LB, OL, and WR. And we need playmakers at QB and TE.
RB is really the least of our worries. For THIS season, we're good with what we have, imo. And for next season I'd be just fine with Fournette, Yeldon, and Grant as our primary 3 backs.
I disagree with your assessment of Yeldon as it pertains to his value for this team VS that of some late round pick. Yeah, I guess an extra late round pick would help moving up in the draft, but a 7th isn't going to help us move up for a premier QB. And Yeldon isn't netting anything more than a 6th or 7th.
(10-27-2017, 11:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 11:39 AM)Billycool Jag Wrote: [ -> ]Anquan wants back in and the Bills say they'll trade his rights - worth a 6th or 7th rounder?
Just askin'
Nope. He's old and never really was a burner. I'd rather bring in some young guys.
This team doesn't need burners.
Boldin brings in a sure set of hands with good route running. We don't have a pass catching TE and Boldin is not that far off from being that. He's very good in the blocking game too.
I don't necessarily want to bring in Boldin but I don't hate the idea either.
I agree. While we could use a burner for sure, it's not a pressing problem, especially with Westbrook on his way back. What we need is a reliable, high volume, target that can consistently get open and AB can do that with the bonus of fighting for extra yards.
(10-27-2017, 11:29 AM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeldon gets a lot of undue hate around here. Too many think that he is some terrible running back. He is the most shifty running back we have with good size to finish runs whenever he does get low. He's an above average running back.
At this point he's pretty much indispensable for a couple of reasons. Fournette is banged up and we need him to split carries with Ivory if Fournette misses any time. Next season, I could very easily see the Jags giving Ivory his walking papers because of his contract, which would make Yeldon the primary backup unless we were to highly draft another running back, which is unlikely.
Just because he's the most "shifty" RB on our team, doesn't mean he's good. It just means we've done a bad job filling the RB position, before we drafted Fournette. If we got rid of both Ivory and Yeldon, why would we have to spend a
high draft pick on a backup RB? Why not a mid round pick? RB's tend to slip in the draft anyway. The Leonard Fournette's of the world, who are sure-fire first round picks, don't come along very often. Most years, you can get a solid RB in the middle rounds, especially when you're just needing a change of pace backup. I want someone who is more consistent than Yeldon. He's been terribly inconsistent his entire time here. Consistency is a key component of RB. Guys like Tarik Cohen, Tevin Coleman, Alvin Kamara and Chris Thompson are the perfect change of pace guys. All of them were taken in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.
Semantics here, but I consider a high draft pick to be 3rd and 4th rounders since they'll contribute and not uncommonly start on a team. This team has far bigger fish to fry than to drop a 3rd rounder on a RB when you already have Ivory and Yeldon.
Would you honestly want to trade Fournette away at the end of this season if he finished with 1300 yards and 4.1 yards per carry? Because that is what Yeldon has averaged in 2 years and 1 game behind an awful offensive line. Not to mention he is by far our best pass blocking running back and 3rd down back. I'd say that is pretty consistent. I'm not saying Yeldon is a great running back, but we should consider ourselves fortunate to have him instead of trying to tar and feather him and run him out of town at first opportunity.
(10-27-2017, 11:52 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 10:49 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]No, he doesn't. We should constantly be looking to upgrade our weakest positions. Backup RB is a weak position, especially when it appears we will be dumping Ivory after the season. I believe we can find a much better change of pace RB in the mid to late rounds of the draft. If we could get a late round pick for Yeldon, take it and use it towards possibly drafting a 2nd QB, (as a backup plan.) I fully advocate drafting a couple of QB's in the next draft. One early and one late.
I'm not interested in getting into a back and forth about it.
We're at the point where we are cutting late round picks.
Yeldon isn't the star of our offense and I'd be more worried about depth at LB, OL, and WR. And we need playmakers at QB and TE.
RB is really the least of our worries. For THIS season, we're good with what we have, imo. And for next season I'd be just fine with Fournette, Yeldon, and Grant as our primary 3 backs.
I disagree with your assessment of Yeldon as it pertains to his value for this team VS that of some late round pick. Yeah, I guess an extra late round pick would help moving up in the draft, but a 7th isn't going to help us move up for a premier QB. And Yeldon isn't netting anything more than a 6th or 7th.
I'm not really trying to argue and I agree that we have more pressing needs, but we have way less needs than we had a year ago and I sincerely believe we can fill almost all if not every need we have via this next draft and free agency. I believe we can address WR, a transition QB and LB in free agency. I also have high hopes for Blair Brown, as he flashed some skills in the preseason. I would definitely select QB, OL and TE in the first 3 rounds of the draft. In the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. I look for more O-Line help, RB help, Safety depth, WR depth and another young QB as a backup plan. I believe if we address these areas we're a Superbowl contender. Given Fournette's injury history in college, I believe we would be much better served finding a consistent change of pace backup. As it stands, I don't trust Yeldon at all to be the primary backup unless we were playing the Colts 16 games in a row. I would definitely take a late round pick for him and use that selection to add a second QB via the draft.
(10-27-2017, 10:41 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What would it take now for Yeldon? After Yeldon's career game last week, what do you feel it would take to get Yeldon? I have been his biggest critic but after last weeks game he just looked different. I know its one game but he looks improved, no jumping around behind the line, one cut go. I would rather trade Ivory honestly and if you asked me last week what would I want for Yeldon I would probalby say a 6th rounder. After last week though I would probably want a 3rd if a team wants him bad enough. I hope he is our backup going forward but I would definitely do it for a 3rd and maybe a high 4th.
After last week his value is probably the highest its been since his rookie year
It's amazing what good run blocking can do for a guy's performance. He didn't suddenly learn how to play RB.
He always knew how to play RB just not very good, players do improve though and it was clear he has gotten better. Our line wasn't good at all the last few years but there where times where he was indecisive and went the wrong way or hit the wrong hole
. It wasn't the case last Sun. though.
(10-27-2017, 11:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 11:50 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Nope. He's old and never really was a burner. I'd rather bring in some young guys.
This team doesn't need burners.
Boldin brings in a sure set of hands with good route running. We don't have a pass catching TE and Boldin is not that far off from being that. He's very good in the blocking game too.
I don't necessarily want to bring in Boldin but I don't hate the idea either.
I didn't necessarily mean we needed a burner, I simply meant Anquan Boldin was always considered a slow WR, even when he was young. He made a living utilizing his route running and solid hands. He was a possession receiver. We have those types of receivers. Given his age, I don't think he even has the minimum speed needed right now to be a consistent contributor, so I wouldn't waste a draft pick to trade for him. If we were gonna trade (which I wouldn't trade
for anyone at this point unless it was a player for player deal,) I would trade for an actual TE, not someone who could try and mask the fact that we lack consistency at TE.
(10-27-2017, 12:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 10:41 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]It's amazing what good run blocking can do for a guy's performance. He didn't suddenly learn how to play RB.
He always knew how to play RB just not very good, players do improve though and it was clear he has gotten better. Our line wasn't good at all the last few years but there where times where he was indecisive and went the wrong way or hit the wrong hole . It wasn't the case last Sun. though.
With bad blocking, what's he going to decide? Into which OL's back to run? Which defender should be the one to tackle him after little to no gain?
(10-27-2017, 08:55 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017, 07:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What would it take now for Yeldon? After Yeldon's career game last week, what do you feel it would take to get Yeldon? I have been his biggest critic but after last weeks game he just looked different. I know its one game but he looks improved, no jumping around behind the line, one cut go. I would rather trade Ivory honestly and if you asked me last week what would I want for Yeldon I would probalby say a 6th rounder. After last week though I would probably want a 3rd if a team wants him bad enough. I hope he is our backup going forward but I would definitely do it for a 3rd and maybe a high 4th.
After last week his value is probably the highest its been since his rookie year
One game does not make him more appealing as trade bait, especially when you look at the defense he was running against.
Don't be disappointed if the team makes no moves before the trade deadline. With injuries happening, I doubt they'll trade away a guy like Yeldon in hopes of adding draft picks. Now, if some team approached them and offered what you suggested, they'd probably pull the trigger, but I doubt seriously anything of the sort is going to happen based on one game.
Why would I be disappointed? I like what this team is doing but you always look to get better. I would trade him for anything less than a 4th and I doubt anyone would give that so I'm good with keeping Yeldon for depth as long as he produces when given the opportunity
(10-27-2017, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 12:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He always knew how to play RB just not very good, players do improve though and it was clear he has gotten better. Our line wasn't good at all the last few years but there where times where he was indecisive and went the wrong way or hit the wrong hole . It wasn't the case last Sun. though.
With bad blocking, what's he going to decide? Into which OL's back to run? Which defender should be the one to tackle him after little to no gain?
As bad as our blocking was there where times that he didn't make the right decisions. I remember asking my self a few different time why in the hell did he doo that, or don't dance around behind the line of scrimmage and go north and south. He looked like a different runner last week even when the line in front of him didn't block good. Players don't improve, you think he is the same player he was as when we drafted him?
(10-27-2017, 12:14 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Semantics here, but I consider a high draft pick to be 3rd and 4th rounders since they'll contribute and not uncommonly start on a team. This team has far bigger fish to fry than to drop a 3rd rounder on a RB when you already have Ivory and Yeldon.
Would you honestly want to trade Fournette away at the end of this season if he finished with 1300 yards and 4.1 yards per carry? Because that is what Yeldon has averaged in 2 years and 1 game behind an awful offensive line. Not to mention he is by far our best pass blocking running back and 3rd down back. I'd say that is pretty consistent. I'm not saying Yeldon is a great running back, but we should consider ourselves fortunate to have him instead of trying to tar and feather him and run him out of town at first opportunity.
I agree. I didn't mean to imply I would actually spend a 3rd rounder on a RB. In fact, I'll make it known, that my first 3 picks would include a QB, TE and O-Linemen, depending who is on the board when we select. Those are our biggest needs. Ivory will probably be cut though after the season since we could save some money by letting him go and given Fournette's injury history, I don't trust Yeldon to be the primary backup. I would easily draft a RB in that 4th to 5th round range, because I want someone I can trust to consistently keep our running game going when Fournette is out and we aren't playing the Colts.
Why are you talking about trading Fournette? Fournette and Yeldon are completely different players. Other than Robinson, the O-Line has almost the same exact starters as ir did last season and with those guys, Fournette has done more in a handful of games than Yeldon has done in his entire career. We can do better at backup RB. Why are you against progress?
(10-27-2017, 12:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 10:41 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]It's amazing what good run blocking can do for a guy's performance. He didn't suddenly learn how to play RB.
He always knew how to play RB just not very good, players do improve though and it was clear he has gotten better. Our line wasn't good at all the last few years but there where times where he was indecisive and went the wrong way or hit the wrong hole . It wasn't the case last Sun. though.
That's a cheap 'out'. He hit the wrong holes... Show me a few examples of hitting a hole that wasn't where the play was designed.
TJ Yeldon has great vision, great agility, above average hands and pass blocking. If you want to criticize him, at least be critical of where he actually struggles. He lacks homerun speed and is too tall and upright to be a good short yardage or goal line back.
I'd be fine with a 7th for Boldin, but that's probably it. Need a sure set of hands that doesn't drop game winning field goal attempts.
(10-27-2017, 12:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]With bad blocking, what's he going to decide? Into which OL's back to run? Which defender should be the one to tackle him after little to no gain?
As bad as our blocking was there where times that he didn't make the right decisions. I remember asking my self a few different time why in the hell did he doo that, or don't dance around behind the line of scrimmage and go north and south. He looked like a different runner last week even when the line in front of him didn't block good. Players don't improve, you think he is the same player he was as when we drafted him?
It's funny, because I am thinking the same thing about Ivory this year.
I believe players can and do improve. But I don't think Sunday's performance by Yeldon is necessarily the result of some dramatic improvement on Yeldon's part. It's not as if he hasn't had 100 yard games before. He had two before this one. It's not as if he hasn't had runs in excess of 20 yards before. I think his attributable to a better offensive line with competent coaching determined to establish a run first mindset against an over matched and inept defense.
(10-27-2017, 12:44 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 12:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He always knew how to play RB just not very good, players do improve though and it was clear he has gotten better. Our line wasn't good at all the last few years but there where times where he was indecisive and went the wrong way or hit the wrong hole . It wasn't the case last Sun. though.
That's a cheap 'out'. He hit the wrong holes... Show me a few examples of hitting a hole that wasn't where the play was designed.
TJ Yeldon has great vision, great agility, above average hands and pass blocking. If you want to criticize him, at least be critical of where he actually struggles. He lacks homerun speed and is too tall and upright to be a good short yardage or goal line back.
I agree with this assessment.
I don't know if you remember him, but he reminds me a lot of Amp Lee.
As for critiquing backs for missing a hole, I seem to recall after an early game this year that on the Monday night Jaguars show, they showed a clip of Ivory missing a hole. It may take me a while to find it.
(10-27-2017, 12:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 12:14 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Semantics here, but I consider a high draft pick to be 3rd and 4th rounders since they'll contribute and not uncommonly start on a team. This team has far bigger fish to fry than to drop a 3rd rounder on a RB when you already have Ivory and Yeldon.
Would you honestly want to trade Fournette away at the end of this season if he finished with 1300 yards and 4.1 yards per carry? Because that is what Yeldon has averaged in 2 years and 1 game behind an awful offensive line. Not to mention he is by far our best pass blocking running back and 3rd down back. I'd say that is pretty consistent. I'm not saying Yeldon is a great running back, but we should consider ourselves fortunate to have him instead of trying to tar and feather him and run him out of town at first opportunity.
I agree. I didn't mean to imply I would actually spend a 3rd rounder on a RB. In fact, I'll make it known, that my first 3 picks would include a QB, TE and O-Linemen, depending who is on the board when we select. Those are our biggest needs. Ivory will probably be cut though after the season since we could save some money by letting him go and given Fournette's injury history, I don't trust Yeldon to be the primary backup. I would easily draft a RB in that 4th to 5th round range, because I want someone I can trust to consistently keep our running game going when Fournette is out and we aren't playing the Colts.
Why are you talking about trading Fournette? Fournette and Yeldon are completely different players. Other than Robinson, the O-Line has almost the same exact starters as ir did last season and with those guys, Fournette has done more in a handful of games than Yeldon has done in his entire career. We can do better at backup RB. Why are you against progress?
We agree on a lot, just differ greatly in our assessments of Yeldon. You think he is a bum and I think he is above average and we aren't going to bridge that gap. I have no problem improving the team, I just don't think you improve on Yeldon short of using a draft pick in the 1st to 3rd or getting lucky.
As far as what's changed since last year, we greatly improved run blocking at LT and LG. Parnell is healthy and finally run blocking at an adequate level again. And probably the biggest change is that we added a fullback not named Tyson Alualu.
(10-26-2017, 09:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017, 09:31 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]He has a 7 mil cap hit so it would be a net of 4 mil in savings.
Yes
(10-26-2017, 09:31 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]He has a 7 mil cap hit so it would be a net of 4 mil in savings.
You don't think he is worth 4 mil?
Ivory is averaging 10 touches a game give or take. Is that worth 4 mil? If Yeldon is deemed better couldn’t that money be used elsewhere like re-signing ARob or on another free agent prospect?
(10-27-2017, 12:51 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017, 12:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. I didn't mean to imply I would actually spend a 3rd rounder on a RB. In fact, I'll make it known, that my first 3 picks would include a QB, TE and O-Linemen, depending who is on the board when we select. Those are our biggest needs. Ivory will probably be cut though after the season since we could save some money by letting him go and given Fournette's injury history, I don't trust Yeldon to be the primary backup. I would easily draft a RB in that 4th to 5th round range, because I want someone I can trust to consistently keep our running game going when Fournette is out and we aren't playing the Colts.
Why are you talking about trading Fournette? Fournette and Yeldon are completely different players. Other than Robinson, the O-Line has almost the same exact starters as ir did last season and with those guys, Fournette has done more in a handful of games than Yeldon has done in his entire career. We can do better at backup RB. Why are you against progress?
We agree on a lot, just differ greatly in our assessments of Yeldon. You think he is a bum and I think he is above average and we aren't going to bridge that gap. I have no problem improving the team, I just don't think you improve on Yeldon short of using a draft pick in the 1st to 3rd or getting lucky.
As far as what's changed since last year, we greatly improved run blocking at LT and LG. Parnell is healthy and finally run blocking at an adequate level again. And probably the biggest change is that we added a fullback not named Tyson Alualu.
Robinson has made a big difference, I agree. LG is largely the same players we had last season, but like you I agree that the biggest change was the addition of the FB. Why we didn't use a true FB before this season, is beyond me. Hopefully, we have learned our lesson and will continue utilizing the position from here on out.