Oehser on the topic:
John: It’s unpadded work during OTAs; so the importance of how anyone looks is minimal. I, too, believe Linder will play center. That’s because I believe
Branden Albert will play left tackle for the Jaguars next season, with
Cam Robinson at left or right guard, Linder at center,
A.J. Cann at right or left guard and
Jermey Parnell at right tackle.
If that scenario doesn’t play out and Linder plays guard, I would guess
Tyler Shatley or Bowanko likely will play center – more likely Shatley.
Quote:Something to bear in mind during all of this speculation is that Bowanko is a different body type than many centers and was drafted to be an athletic ZBS guy.
He may not really fit well in the supposed power run game being cooked up right now at Everbank.
I've been thinking that for a while now.
Marrone answers many of the OL questions...
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/nfl.../445244429
Quote:
- Marrone said he was the one who initially suggested that Brandon Linder move to center last year. He said Linder has worked at center and guard this offseason, but parroted the lineman by saying that he was playing more at guard.
He also mentioned Earl Watford and Patrick Omameh as other potential starting guards.
- Marrone said the reason why A.J. Cann has moved to the left side is because he played that position in college. He wants Linder at right guard (right now) because he played the position during his first two NFL seasons. He didn't want Linder to have to go to left guard and play a position he wasn't used to.
He added that Tyler Shatley has been at center, but that Luke Bowanko and Chris Reed are also working at the position.
(Emphasis added)
The interesting part is the (right now) like what's going to change that? Only guy coming in would be Albert but what effect would he have on C/RG? Albert comes back that means Robinson has to play Lg which mean Cann has to play RG which means Linder has to play C, that's a lot of movement because Albert won't get his expletive to camp
Quote:... that's a lot of movement because Albert won't get his expletive to camp
Well, technically,
camp starts on July 26th for Albert.
Quote:The interesting part is the (right now) like what's going to change that? Only guy coming in would be Albert but what effect would he have on C/RG? Albert comes back that means Robinson has to play Lg which mean Cann has to play RG which means Linder has to play C, that's a lot of movement because Albert won't get his expletive to camp
...or else Cam moves to RT and Parnell takes a seat while everything else remains the same.
Regardless of what Marrone says about Parnell I think Robinson has a better chance to take his spot than Alberts if Albert shows up on the 26th.
flgators...
Robinson starting over Parnell at RT is not out of the realm of possibility.
There are numerous advantages to having him start at RT as opposed to LG.
1. Albert at LT and Robinson at RT would give us a more balanced offensive line.
2. Robinson would allow us to put a better athlete outside to combat strong pass rushers.
3. We'd still have a power side if Robinson were at RT and Linder were at RG.
There is a user (I can't remember who) was staunchly opposed to taking an OL in the top 5.
Though I opposed his philosophy, there is an article that supports his stance directly (and the idea of Robinson at RT indirectly).
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/31/nfl-l...nsive-ends
I remember after the year bowanko came in at center he didn't look horrible. I thought his issue was just not being able to stay healthy after that initial season. I think if he can stay healthy he should be good. watching the tape on him coming out he man handled Aron Donald for those games and look at Donald now
It doesn't add up that Caldwell has said more than once that C is the 2nd most important position on the line (I could be convinced it's the most important), and Linder is a young, proven, pro bowl caliber player at the position by theirs, PFFs, and NFL1000s opinion.
Just making up percentages here, but if a guard spot gets say 40% better by moving Linder there and center only gets 30% worse by switching to Bowanko, I don't know if that really makes the oline better considering C positional value.
(06-06-2017, 05:12 PM)KYjaggy Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't add up that Caldwell has said more than once that C is the 2nd most important position on the line (I could be convinced it's the most important), and Linder is a young, proven, pro bowl caliber player at the position by theirs, PFFs, and NFL1000s opinion.
Just making up percentages here, but if a guard spot gets say 40% better by moving Linder there and center only gets 30% worse by switching to Bowanko, I don't know if that really makes the oline better considering C positional value.
That's a rather myopic view, considering Linder could be an even better G with a higher ceiling than he is at C.
Maybe that takes him from a chartreuse 89 A-B foxtrot, to a magenta 97 A-A butter by PFF's "rankings?"
I'm having fun with their metrics, but making a serious point.
I understand the importance of C and agree with those who feel it's probably the second most critical position to LT. But I have no reservation whatsoever putting Linder wherever they feel is best for the team on the OL.
There's no contradiction there at all. If you have an interior guy who's your best at all three positions, the other two will be "worse" by comparison without him no matter where you plug him in. That doesn't default him to C just because you value the position more. You have to find the best fit by group. Hopefully, one you feel is sustainable and long term.
I don't think bias towards a position should keep you from making the right/best decision for the team. If we've got guys who can play really good C, can't do the same at G (limited to C,) and have a guy playing C who could be an even better G... you have to do the best for the club (and likely the player) and let him prosper at G.
I think Linder is equally as good at G or C, borderline pro bowl caliber at both. I also don't think we have anyone who is going to be really good at C except him. I think the team likes Bowanko more than they should. Hell I'd also say they don't like Omameh as much as they should. What Omameh showed us last year was every bit as good as what Bowanko showed us years ago.
(06-06-2017, 05:54 PM)KYjaggy Wrote: [ -> ]I think Linder is equally as good at G or C, borderline pro bowl caliber at both. I also don't think we have anyone who is going to be really good at C except him. I think the team likes Bowanko more than they should. Hell I'd also say they don't like Omameh as much as they should. What Omameh showed us last year was every bit as good as what Bowanko showed us years ago.
I just saw an interview from Marrone yesterday where he addresses the issue of where to play Linder and everyone else. I hope to find the link and add it to this thread, because I don't want to butcher Marrone's words beyond recognition,but he expressed it in terms of percentages. The crux of what he said that he wants to get the best five on the field at the same time. Using a percentage almost like a Madden rating, he indicated putting a player in one position might result in LT to RT ratings of 90 90 90 90 90, while moving that same player to a different position might make the same line look like 90 75 90, 80, 75, depending upon the strengths and experiences of the players in question.
http://www.jaguars.com/media-gallery/vid...8239a1ba6f
The quote regarding positional importance and the percentages starts about the 13:00 mark. The whole interview is really good, but just after the 13 minute mark is when he explains the percentages.
With the emphasis on the run game this offseason I think the interior is going to be based on "what's the best run blocking line we can make?" For instance an interior of Cann/Omameh-Bowanko-Linder (even though Cann struggled last year) may yield better results in the run game than any other combination.
Also I might be wrong here but I think Marrone specifically talked about Omameh in the last presser saying he's a guy who plays great games but perhaps doesn't look great while practicing. Mentioned that he had improved a good deal with regards to that. Could have heard the wrong name though.
(06-06-2017, 07:45 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]With the emphasis on the run game this offseason I think the interior is going to be based on "what's the best run blocking line we can make?" For instance an interior of Cann/Omameh-Bowanko-Linder (even though Cann struggled last year) may yield better results in the run game than any other combination.
Also I might be wrong here but I think Marrone specifically talked about Omameh in the last presser saying he's a guy who plays great games but perhaps doesn't look great while practicing. Mentioned that he had improved a good deal with regards to that. Could have heard the wrong name though.
Given the addition of Fournette and Cam, there may be an emphasis on the running game, even though Marrone did not limit it to the running game when he indicated he wanted the best and most consistent five on the field.
As to Omameh, I remember being pleasantly surprised with his play when he was there, pre injury. I don't know if I write him off completely as a starter, though I'd say the odds are against him.
I think best case is
LT - Albert
LG - Robinson
C - Cann
RG - Linder
RT - Parnell
With a good possibility of
LT - Robison
LG - Omameh
(06-01-2017, 09:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Linder has potential to be pro-bowl caliber at guard. At center he was average at best. Put him back where he belongs and find a different solution for center.
My 2 cents.
I thought Linder was pretty good at center. Maybe not great, but good.
Regardless -- if we're talking candidates at Center -- we may as well include AJ Cann as a possibility as well.
Remember Mayock's draft profile on him?
Quote:
DRAFT ANALYSIS:
"This kid can play center or guard. He can be an immediate starter. Ultimately, I think he kicks all the way inside and plays center." -- Mike Mayock
It sounds like Cann is not in the picture at Center. I noticed Oesher in one of his articles talking about potential candidates for the Center spot, and he distinctly left out two names among their interior OLs... Cann and Watford. This has me thinkiing that these two are strictly playing G. Actually, I tend to think these two end up starting at G with a formation possibly looking like...
LT Albert
LG Cann
C Linder
RG Watford
RT Robinson
Parnell in this case would just have to sit alongside Omameh. But do mark this down as I really think this might be the end result despite nobody else that I've noticed predicting as much.
(06-02-2017, 09:38 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I was not a huge Meester fan when he was a rookie.
As you may recall, he was a G as a rookie. I don't think he performed well at all there.
But when he was finally moved to C, he flourished and wound up being the best C in Jaguars history.
Precisely. Meester was routinely stood up and pushed back as a rookie much like I've seen with Tyler Shatley. His sophomore year he moved to Center, and Coughlin was able to keep him in double teams for the most part until he eventually was good enough to not only stand his own ground, but much more. Meester played a long, long time constantly refining his game.
(06-02-2017, 09:40 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I was not a huge Meester fan when he was a rookie.
As you may recall, he was a G as a rookie. I don't think he performed well at all there.
But when he was finally moved to C, he flourished and wound up being the best C in Jaguars history.
Agree. That's why I believe Linder could reach even greater heights at G.
I've always looked at the Linder to C move as temporary as placing Meester at G.
I wonder why Meester struggled so much at G and thrived so well at C.
Aside from calling the signals, are the positions THAT different?
I know depending on whether a team plays an even or odd front, the C or G may or not be covered on a given play. But leverage is leverage, right? Technique is technique, right?
(06-07-2017, 06:14 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2017, 09:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]
I thought Linder was pretty good at center. Maybe not great, but good.
Regardless -- if we're talking candidates at Center -- we may as well include AJ Cann as a possibility as well.
Remember Mayock's draft profile on him?
It sounds like Cann is not in the picture at Center. I noticed Oesher in one of his articles talking about potential candidates for the Center spot, and he distinctly left out two names among their interior OLs... Cann and Watford. This has me thinkiing that these two are strictly playing G. Actually, I tend to think these two end up starting at G with a formation possibly looking like...
LT Albert
LG Cann
C Linder
RG Watford
RT Robinson
Parnell in this case would just have to sit alongside Omameh. But do mark this down as I really think this might be the end result despite nobody else that I've noticed predicting as much.
Yep...that too is a distinct possibility, but that raises other possibilities down the road.
If Robinson earns starting RT, does Parnell get cut?
Linder could end up going to the pro bowl at guard this year. One of our few bright spots on the line rgardless if he is a guard or center.
(06-08-2017, 08:28 PM)Teal Time Radio Wrote: [ -> ]Linder could end up going to the pro bowl at guard this year. One of our few bright spots on the line rgardless if he is a guard or center.
True.
If Fournette and the other backs end up putting up good numbers, Linder may finally get some recognition.