(12-21-2017, 10:49 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 10:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It's also easy to fundamentally disagree with a large foreign aggressor taking over land and using its power to terrorise who ever it pleases, well at least it should be.
As stupid as some of these wars have been, America is not a terrorist nation. Your country seems to be fine with what they do. I mean, they do sit comfortably behind them, afterall.
Wouldn't expect any self respecting American to admit it but if you look at American foreign policy with a neutral eye that's exactly what it has been and continues to be.
My country does tons of stuff I don't agree with.
(12-21-2017, 11:03 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 10:49 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]As stupid as some of these wars have been, America is not a terrorist nation. Your country seems to be fine with what they do. I mean, they do sit comfortably behind them, afterall.
And the US does not "take over land." Maybe we should, but we don't.
Or maybe he thinks Iraq is now part of the United States?
The US doesn't occupy foreign land and meddle in other countries governments?
(12-21-2017, 11:32 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 11:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The US doesn't occupy foreign land and meddle in other countries governments?
When the US is attacked, or an ally calls for help, then we send troops that fight the enemy and occupy the area until peace is re-established. That's not terrorism. And we never claim the land as our own, at least not since our war with Mexico in the 1800s.
And every country big enough to matter meddles in other countries governments to some extent. That's not terrorism either. I'm pretty sure the British government did what it could to prevent Trump's election.
The use of military power to influence, kill and further political agendas in foreign land is in fact terrorism. By your countries definition.
By the time Trump leaves office, we will have no allies. We will be the one who is considered a "rogue nation."
(12-21-2017, 11:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 11:32 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]When the US is attacked, or an ally calls for help, then we send troops that fight the enemy and occupy the area until peace is re-established. That's not terrorism. And we never claim the land as our own, at least not since our war with Mexico in the 1800s.
And every country big enough to matter meddles in other countries governments to some extent. That's not terrorism either. I'm pretty sure the British government did what it could to prevent Trump's election.
The use of military power to influence, kill and further political agendas in foreign land is in fact terrorism. By your countries definition.
Just so we're clear, you're saying using your military makes you a terrorist. Whether offensively or defensively, war is an effort influence and further political agendas. Using that argument, every country in history is a terrorist.
Are all those countries that assisted the US in Iraq and Afghanistan also terrorists?
(12-22-2017, 12:14 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]By the time Trump leaves office, we will have no allies. We will be the one who is considered a "rogue nation."
Trump is the one standing up for Israel, Japan, and South Korea.
As long as America hold all the cards, people will always want to be our ally. You need to get out of the belief that we should do things for others and not Americans.
(12-22-2017, 12:33 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 11:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The use of military power to influence, kill and further political agendas in foreign land is in fact terrorism. By your countries definition.
Just so we're clear, you're saying using your military makes you a terrorist. Whether offensively or defensively, war is an effort influence and further political agendas. Using that argument, every country in history is a terrorist.
Are all those countries that assisted the US in Iraq and Afghanistan also terrorists?
(12-22-2017, 12:14 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]By the time Trump leaves office, we will have no allies. We will be the one who is considered a "rogue nation."
Trump is the one standing up for Israel, Japan, and South Korea.
As long as America hold all the cards, people will always want to be our ally. You need to get out of the belief that we should do things for others and not Americans.
Our relationship with Israel was fine, before he decided to tick off the rest of the world. We didn't
need to recognize Jerusalem as the capital. We already had a very good relationship with Israel. We're their biggest ally in a region of the world where their very existence is challenged. Why rock the boat by making such an unpopular decision with the rest of the world? What good did it do us? It was a power move by Trump. Nothing more. The rest of the world was against it, so he just had to prove he had the power to do it anyway. It sounds like the same kind of thought process as a little North Korean dictator, if you ask me.
(12-22-2017, 03:28 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2017, 12:33 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Just so we're clear, you're saying using your military makes you a terrorist. Whether offensively or defensively, war is an effort influence and further political agendas. Using that argument, every country in history is a terrorist.
Are all those countries that assisted the US in Iraq and Afghanistan also terrorists?
Trump is the one standing up for Israel, Japan, and South Korea.
As long as America hold all the cards, people will always want to be our ally. You need to get out of the belief that we should do things for others and not Americans.
Our relationship with Israel was fine, before he decided to tick off the rest of the world. We didn't need to recognize Jerusalem as the capital. We already had a very good relationship with Israel. We're their biggest ally in a region of the world where their very existence is challenged. Why rock the boat by making such an unpopular decision with the rest of the world? What good did it do us? It was a power move by Trump. Nothing more. The rest of the world was against it, so he just had to prove he had the power to do it anyway. It sounds like the same kind of thought process as a little North Korean dictator, if you ask me.
Why do we accept Pyongyang as NK's capital? Why do we accept Tehran as Iran's capital?
Because of the hundreds if not thousands of years of history that make it so.
Jerusalem is Israel's capital by that same criteria. Not from a biblical sense (I'm an atheist) but historical fact dictates it.
(12-22-2017, 09:39 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2017, 03:28 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Our relationship with Israel was fine, before he decided to tick off the rest of the world. We didn't need to recognize Jerusalem as the capital. We already had a very good relationship with Israel. We're their biggest ally in a region of the world where their very existence is challenged. Why rock the boat by making such an unpopular decision with the rest of the world? What good did it do us? It was a power move by Trump. Nothing more. The rest of the world was against it, so he just had to prove he had the power to do it anyway. It sounds like the same kind of thought process as a little North Korean dictator, if you ask me.
Why do we accept Pyongyang as NK's capital? Why do we accept Tehran as Iran's capital?
Because of the hundreds if not thousands of years of history that make it so.
Jerusalem is Israel's capital by that same criteria. Not from a biblical sense (I'm an atheist) but historical fact dictates it.
But why do
we have to
publicly recognize it, knowing it would anger the rest of the world? What purpose does it serve other than to basically "flip the bird" at the people who disagree? We could have kept quiet and our relationship with Israel would've still been as strong as it ever was. I'm not arguing the point of whether or not Jerusalem
should be considered the capital. I'm saying, why did we even have to get into this mess by stating publicly that we did recognize it?
(12-22-2017, 10:14 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2017, 09:39 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we accept Pyongyang as NK's capital? Why do we accept Tehran as Iran's capital?
Because of the hundreds if not thousands of years of history that make it so.
Jerusalem is Israel's capital by that same criteria. Not from a biblical sense (I'm an atheist) but historical fact dictates it.
But why do we have to publicly recognize it, knowing it would anger the rest of the world? What purpose does it serve other than to basically "flip the bird" at the people who disagree? We could have kept quiet and our relationship with Israel would've still been as strong as it ever was. I'm not arguing the point of whether or not Jerusalem should be considered the capital. I'm saying, why did we even have to get into this mess by stating publicly that we did recognize it?
Because right now is always the best time to do the right thing, and that's what Trump did.
As usual, Trump reacts to an essentially toothless non-binding resolution with bombast, threatening to cut off humanitarian and other aid to countries who do not do our bidding, because the UN criticized him. Putin must be proud of his petulant, petty puppet.
#thinskinned[BLEEP]
(12-22-2017, 10:58 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]As usual, Trump reacts to an essentially toothless non-binding resolution with bombast, threatening to cut off humanitarian and other aid to countries who do not do our bidding, because the UN criticized him. Putin must be proud of his petulant, petty puppet.
#thinskinned[BLEEP]
As usual, some people are upset that America asserts itself as the #1 nation on Earth.
(12-22-2017, 10:58 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]As usual, Trump reacts to an essentially toothless non-binding resolution with bombast, threatening to cut off humanitarian and other aid to countries who do not do our bidding, because the UN criticized him. Putin must be proud of his petulant, petty puppet.
#thinskinned[BLEEP]
What is wrong with you?
You have such a victim, weak person's mindset.
The UN hates Israel. For some reason the whole community of nations hates the only group of people that could turn that desert into a beautiful place. The Arabs made it a stinkhole before Israelis had it.
Now that someone is finally telling those incompetent losers if you don't like what we do, fine, but keep your mouth shut and know your place if you want the FREE aid we provide. If it wasn't for the US half the world would starve. It's time we had a leader that actually said it how it should be which is: stop biting the hand that is feeding your people.
(12-21-2017, 11:03 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 10:49 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]As stupid as some of these wars have been, America is not a terrorist nation. Your country seems to be fine with what they do. I mean, they do sit comfortably behind them, afterall.
And the US does not "take over land." Maybe we should, but we don't.
Or maybe he thinks Iraq is now part of the United States?
(12-21-2017, 11:46 AM)KingIngram052787 Wrote: [ -> ]It's really neither who are the terrorists. It's the Zionists who are the terrorists.
It was the Zionists who were blowing up Israeli School buses? It was the Zionists who were firing missiles at Israeli civilians?
I never knew that. Thank's for enlightening me.
Oy, really showing your ignorance. You don't have to blow things up to be a terrorist, just FYI.
(12-22-2017, 03:28 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2017, 12:33 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]
Our relationship with Israel was fine, before he decided to tick off the rest of the world. We didn't need to recognize Jerusalem as the capital. We already had a very good relationship with Israel. We're their biggest ally in a region of the world where their very existence is challenged. Why rock the boat by making such an unpopular decision with the rest of the world? What good did it do us? It was a power move by Trump. Nothing more. The rest of the world was against it, so he just had to prove he had the power to do it anyway. It sounds like the same kind of thought process as a little North Korean dictator, if you ask me.
That simply isn't true. America and Israel are (and were) allies, yes, but Netanyahu was routinely annoyed with Obama. Obama, wanting to be everyone's favorite, wouldn't denounce Palestine's unwillingness to work with Israel and their countless acts of violence against Israel. Obama ruined the trust between countries. Obama catered to many of Israel's enemies while touting that he had their best interest at heart. I'm not even sure how you don't see that.
(12-22-2017, 10:14 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]But why do we have to publicly recognize it, knowing it would anger the rest of the world? What purpose does it serve other than to basically "flip the bird" at the people who disagree? We could have kept quiet and our relationship with Israel would've still been as strong as it ever was. I'm not arguing the point of whether or not Jerusalem should be considered the capital. I'm saying, why did we even have to get into this mess by stating publicly that we did recognize it?
Because, like you said, they are our biggest ally. TrivialPursuit made a good point and noted that historical evidence proving it, but if for no other reason, they are our biggest ally in the region and the only reasonable country over there. The only reason not to recognize it is because it's Israel and you don't want to make anyone made.
(12-22-2017, 10:58 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]As usual, Trump reacts to an essentially toothless non-binding resolution with bombast, threatening to cut off humanitarian and other aid to countries who do not do our bidding, because the UN criticized him. Putin must be proud of his petulant, petty puppet.
#thinskinned[BLEEP]
They had a vote trying to make us reverse our decision. You don't see how big of an insult that is? Would you do business with a company that insults you? The UN is a fraud, and while you'd like to pretend that they're just going around saving children, they're essentially nothing more than an instrument of tyranny shielding certain members from punishment. The UN is a insolent child with its hand in its parents' pockets.
(12-22-2017, 12:33 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2017, 11:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The use of military power to influence, kill and further political agendas in foreign land is in fact terrorism. By your countries definition.
Just so we're clear, you're saying using your military makes you a terrorist. Whether offensively or defensively, war is an effort influence and further political agendas. Using that argument, every country in history is a terrorist.
Are all those countries that assisted the US in Iraq and Afghanistan also terrorists?
No. Using your military around the globe as aggressors to influence, destabilise and take control is ,by your countries definition, terrorism. There isn't a single nation that holds close to the reach aggressive US foreign policy has had around the globe on different continents. There isn't a single nation that interferes more politically with other sovereign nations.
And I don't hate the US. Theres clear benefits to the US being the global bully, in fact it benefits my country more than most. I just think A) The guise that what America is doing overseas is ultimately for a noble goal is ridiculous and B) There is a bubble effect going on where the US public is completely desensitised to how brutal US foreign policy is, how vast it reaches and how many millions of lives it negatively influences. Seeing yourself as the global deity who decides what happens and when isn't something to aspire too.
(12-22-2017, 01:26 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2017, 12:33 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Just so we're clear, you're saying using your military makes you a terrorist. Whether offensively or defensively, war is an effort influence and further political agendas. Using that argument, every country in history is a terrorist.
Are all those countries that assisted the US in Iraq and Afghanistan also terrorists?
No. Using your military around the globe as aggressors to influence, destabilise and take control is ,by your countries definition, terrorism. There isn't a single nation that holds close to the reach aggressive US foreign policy has had around the globe on different continents. There isn't a single nation that interferes more politically with other sovereign nations.
And I don't hate the US. Theres clear benefits to the US being the global bully, in fact it benefits my country more than most. I just think A) The guise that what America is doing overseas is ultimately for a noble goal is ridiculous and B) There is a bubble effect going on where the US public is completely desensitised to how brutal US foreign policy is, how vast it reaches and how many millions of lives it negatively influences. Seeing yourself as the global deity who decides what happens and when isn't something to aspire too.
Actually terrorism is the use of terror to accomplish a political goal.
We don't use terror. We don't arbitrarily bomb mosques and churches to kill civilians to inspire fear in the populace.
We kill armed terrorists.. not church goers.
You're just flat out wrong.
Oh, and you should look into China's influence. They are much worse than the US.
(12-22-2017, 01:26 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2017, 12:33 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Just so we're clear, you're saying using your military makes you a terrorist. Whether offensively or defensively, war is an effort influence and further political agendas. Using that argument, every country in history is a terrorist.
Are all those countries that assisted the US in Iraq and Afghanistan also terrorists?
No. Using your military around the globe as aggressors to influence, destabilise and take control is ,by your countries definition, terrorism. There isn't a single nation that holds close to the reach aggressive US foreign policy has had around the globe on different continents. There isn't a single nation that interferes more politically with other sovereign nations.
And I don't hate the US. Theres clear benefits to the US being the global bully, in fact it benefits my country more than most. I just think A) The guise that what America is doing overseas is ultimately for a noble goal is ridiculous and B) There is a bubble effect going on where the US public is completely desensitised to how brutal US foreign policy is, how vast it reaches and how many millions of lives it negatively influences. Seeing yourself as the global deity who decides what happens and when isn't something to aspire too.
OK, so it isn't that a military influences other governments, it's that the US does it more often? What is your argument? Is it only terrorism based on the amount that it's done or not? What about when the UN, which your country is a member, uses their military force to interfere with issues in Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Haiti, etc.? Your argument is flawed. It's based on the idea that America's actions are inherently bad and therefore so are whatever actions by her military. Your argument is only reliable if you ignore that this literally happens every day by almost all other countries in some form or another. Also, the definition of terrorism doesn't require a military. You're using military to exclusively apply that label to America.