First off, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all of you. Please be safe. This divisional championship-our first since 1999 and the first ever in the AFC South-felt a lot like 1998. If you recall, the Jaguars won the division title-the team's first-due to other teams losing that week. Minus Brunell, who was injured the week before in a home game to Detroit, the team went up to Minnesota and lost 50-3 or something like that. It was great to have won the division, but to get beat like that was not good.
Here are my thoughts on the game.
1. I am unsure whether it was the news that the Titans lost, the team really has a problem playing on the West Coast, the team simply ran into a buzz saw in the 49ers or what, but to me this was clearly the worst performance by the team, top to bottom this year. Generally, it's not what you want going into the playoffs. We had a slim chance of possibly getting a bye, but I can not see Pittsburgh losing these last two regular season games, barring a slew of devastating injuries these last two weeks. Of this team's five losses, three were to teams with losing records (Jets, 49ers, and Cardinals) and at least one was to a tack team that is hovering just above .500. Hopefully, this team learns not to take any team lightly.
2. The obvious takeaway from the game is that Bortles regressed, throwing three picks and could have thrown another. I believe the pick 6 on the crossing route wasn't completely his fault, as Coles got a case of alligator arms/heard footsteps. Still, it was Bortles' responsibility to not lead Coles into that hit and throw it to mitigate the damage Coles would have taken. I am not sure if it was Blake's fault on the deep pass down the sideline where it looked as if he was trying a back shoulder fade and the receiver ran a go or what. What I do know is those three picks killed this team against the 49ers. The question now is does it kill this team going forward in the remainder of the season? First, can Bortles overcome these bad plays this bad game, or will this linger? Even if Bortles can, did Marrone and Hackett lose confidence in Bortles to the point they revert to early season game plans? I believe in conservative football, but if it gets to the point where other teams are saying the team has no faith in Bortles based upon the game plan, then that's a problem. I think the receiving corps without Robinson has shown enough improvement where a repeat of the early season game plans where the team did not attack deep should not happen
3. This was also an ugly game for the defense. Giving up all of those points to the 49ers was not good. The sideline squabble between Malik Jackson and Aaron Colvin was not good. The stupid personal foul penalties-including two in one drive-gave the 49ers offense forty five (45) additional yards on a day they certainly did not need it. While there was incentive for the Jaguars to win to keep pace with Pittsburgh and New England, from a playoff seeding standpoint, realistically, nothing was at stake. Pittsburgh and or New England losing these last two weeks was not likely. If the team will lose poise during this game where comparatively little was at stake, what will happen in the playoffs when things are do or die? I sure hope this game was a lesson in poise.
4. Somehow I knew Jeff Triplette would screw us someway. But that quick whistle on the forward progress fumble left me shaking my head in disbelief (aside from the loud string of profanities I spewed). That call hurt us, but it didn't cost the team the game. Nevertheless, does anybody have any faith that the Jaguars-not being one of the league's glamor franchises-can possibly avoid rectum wrecking calls like that if we go up against Pittsburgh or New England?
5. Special teams generally played well. Mickens and Colvin teamed up nicely on the blocked extra point and 2 point conversion to give us some momentum in the first half. Mickens came close on a couple of other attempts. Lambo's on sides kick was brilliant, especially when you remember Scobee's horrible attempt against the ravens a few years back. But Lambo's missed extra point likely doomed any comeback attempt.
6. I like Poz, but the game showed why so many are ready to replace him. How in the world does a FB get that far behind you on a wheel route to end up with a Forty four (44) yard gain? A half back or 3rd down back? I get it. I even get a TE doing that to him. But a FB?
7. Rookie Watch:
- Leonard Fournette-had minimal impact, though he had a great blitz pickup. The Seattle game aside, his production has fallen off a cliff. We will need much more from him if we are to advance in the postseason.
- Cam Robinson-had some sort of Ab injury that took him out of the game. He was dressed in his game uniform when they showed him on the sidelines a few series later. It didn't hurt us too bad during the game because the 49ers did not have a particularly good pass rusher. But the tacks are good enough rushing the passer that Robinson's absence would be felt. I hope he is okay. Ian Rapoport is saying it likely won't keep him out of the playoffs. The phrase he used is "more of an annoyance..."
- Dawaune Smoot-did not notice him at all.
- Dede Westbrook-had some nice catches, and I thought he scored on that deep pass down the left sideline.
- Blair Brown-left the game with what was thought to be a concussion, but I did not see him get hit on that play.
- Jalen Myrick-blocked that extra point, but I did not notice him much beyond that.
- Keelan Cole-statistically had a nice game, but his short arming that crossing route led to the pick 6.
- Jaydon Mickens-had mostly a quiet game
8. I sure wish we can get some healthy WRs. Jaelen Strong looked decent in his first action with us, but then he got hurt.
9. Bottom line:This game epitomizes "Pyrrhic Victory." Yes, we won the division, and considering where we've been the past few years, that is reason to cheer. But we all want more for this team, and none of us want to see this team limp to a one and done finish in the playoffs. None of us want the tacks to sweep us, much less beat us three times in a season again.
On that wheel route, Poz took a step towards the line of scrimmage, and the fullback got behind him.
My impression of this game is that in spite of their recent performance, these are not front-line wide receivers. It would be awfully nice if we could get Hurns and Lee back in there. And Robinson would be wonderful, but that will be next year.
As for Blake, I was starting to get sold on the guy, but then bad Blake shows back up. I'll leave it to Coughlin-Marrone-Caldwell to evaluate the QB position and whether there is an affordable upgrade available.
I'm going to be happy with the results of the season- a division title and a playoff berth. My Super Bowl aspirations have taken a huge hit, but nonetheless the long term big picture looks good. Yes, the 9ers game sucks, but what can you do. Look at the big picture. We won the division. That's a huge upward step from last year.
I really disagree with your #9. I think this game is the opposite of a pyrrhic victory. I think it's more of a meaningless loss. Maybe it means something in terms of defining what this team is, but it's totally meaningless in terms of standings, playoff seedings, and all that. Besides, strictly speaking, you can't call a game you lost a "pyrrhic victory." It wasn't a victory.
(12-25-2017, 08:28 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]On that wheel route, Poz took a step towards the line of scrimmage, and the fullback got behind him.
My impression of this game is that in spite of their recent performance, these are not front-line wide receivers. It would be awfully nice if we could get Hurns and Lee back in there. And Robinson would be wonderful, but that will be next year.
As for Blake, I was starting to get sold on the guy, but then bad Blake shows back up. I'll leave it to Coughlin-Marrone-Caldwell to evaluate the QB position and whether there is an affordable upgrade available.
I'm going to be happy with the results of the season- a division title and a playoff berth. My Super Bowl aspirations have taken a huge hit, but nonetheless the long term big picture looks good. Yes, the 9ers game sucks, but what can you do. Look at the big picture. We won the division. That's a huge upward step from last year.
I really disagree with your #9. I think this game is the opposite of a pyrrhic victory. I think it's more of a meaningless loss. Maybe it means something in terms of defining what this team is, but it's totally meaningless in terms of standings, playoff seedings, and all that. Besides, strictly speaking, you can't call a game you lost a "pyrrhic victory." It wasn't a victory.
Re: #9-the combination of winning the division yet losing this game like that is the Pyrric Victory. The "victory" was wining the division.
Maybe they have gotten all of the bad stuff out of their system.
(12-25-2017, 08:44 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (12-25-2017, 08:28 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]On that wheel route, Poz took a step towards the line of scrimmage, and the fullback got behind him.
My impression of this game is that in spite of their recent performance, these are not front-line wide receivers. It would be awfully nice if we could get Hurns and Lee back in there. And Robinson would be wonderful, but that will be next year.
As for Blake, I was starting to get sold on the guy, but then bad Blake shows back up. I'll leave it to Coughlin-Marrone-Caldwell to evaluate the QB position and whether there is an affordable upgrade available.
I'm going to be happy with the results of the season- a division title and a playoff berth. My Super Bowl aspirations have taken a huge hit, but nonetheless the long term big picture looks good. Yes, the 9ers game sucks, but what can you do. Look at the big picture. We won the division. That's a huge upward step from last year.
I really disagree with your #9. I think this game is the opposite of a pyrrhic victory. I think it's more of a meaningless loss. Maybe it means something in terms of defining what this team is, but it's totally meaningless in terms of standings, playoff seedings, and all that. Besides, strictly speaking, you can't call a game you lost a "pyrrhic victory." It wasn't a victory.
Re: #9-the combination of winning the division yet losing this game like that is the Pyrric Victory. The "victory" was wining the division.
I know I'm splitting hairs and being language police, but winning the division does not meet the definition of "pyrrhic victory." A pyrrhic victory is a victory that is won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile. It was absolutely worthwhile to win the division and there isn't any offsetting cost to that victory.
(12-25-2017, 08:46 AM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe they have gotten all of the bad stuff out of their system.
I sure hope you are right.
Out postseason will be very short and humiliating if we continue with this poor play.
My thoughts on the game?
#1: I was dead right when I said drafting a running back with foot and ankle problems at fourth overall was idiotic. He's been a shell of his true capability for most of the season, and will probably never have a truly great season since he's got chronic problems with his ankles. Running backs should never be taken in the top ten.
#2: looks like the coaching staff wanted Bortles to make Clowney look good this week. All of the first down runs with Fournette early in the game to put the offense off schedule were moronic. Throw to score, run to win. Especially since the 49ers weakness was supposed to be their secondary and their strength their run defense.
#3: Bortles must have liked the trash label because he played like he wants to keep it.
#4: the defense looked schizophrenic, like half of it cared and half of it didn't. The multiple after the whistle fouls were the stupidest thing I've ever seen, especially Jack's taunting foul. The defense had been getting it's [BLEEP] kicked up and down the field and he's going to taunt a guy after one tackle? If we were up by twenty at the time I could understand feeling like flexing, but there was nothing for the defense to be proud of at that point in the game.
#5: watching the game yesterday it can go one of two ways, the team can show that game was a fluke and blow the titans out next week en route to a good run in the playoffs, or they can keep going in that direction and lose their first round matchup at home.
#6: after yesterday I dread to see what Tom Brady would do to this vaunted defense.
#7: That Bortles almost managed a comeback under the circumstances was mind boggling, and of course Lambo would have to miss an extra point then. Everytime it seemed like the Jaguars might do something they shot themselves in the foot again. If Lambo had hit the extra point and the team kicked it deep instead of trying for another kickoff recovery I think there was a real shot to at least go to overtime.
#8: watching the defense continue to implode when the Jaguars still had a shot at a comeback was insane.
Maybe more later, that's just my thoughts for now.
I think the 49ers will be a playoff team next year and they are already playing like one with Jimmy G. Still, the Jags came out flat once again on the west coast and didn't look ready to compete in the 1st quarter. They did an admirable job of getting back in the game, but the soft defense, the penalties, the turnovers and the bad calls sealed their fate. It was good experience to play from behind because they need to learn how to win when the "formula" isn't working. We might have seen "bad Bortles" yesterday, but he still did some good things and wasn't a complete disaster. We might even win a playoff game with "bad Bortles" if the defense plays well. But not if we have 10 penalties and 3 turnovers. Gotta clean that up.
Just a couple of bits to add to your "rookie watch" Bullseye:
Mickens was the "disruptor" on the onside kick that freed the ball from being controlled by the receiving player and toward the recovering McCray -- Smoot had one nice run stop at the L.O.S. for no gain.
Spot on Bullseye.
At first I thought the team was just unprepared and that Shanahan simply had a perfect gameplan to get the match-ups he wanted and expose weaknesses on our defense. But soon enough what disappointed me the most was the attitude of the team, almost unrecognizable.
Malik-Colvin, then Cole against Keenan, those little fights in the very first quarter show that probably the team wasn't in the right mindset for this game. I have no idea what happened but it was ugly.
And then when it seemed that we got in control of the game again early in the second half, Bortles throws a bad INT and the team implodes again with those stupid after the whistle penalties. Missed tackles, lack of effort....it was bad.
Even at the end, when somehow we could get a 3 & out to have a last chance the players lost their cool (Malik, again)and put on a terrible display on that final 3rd down.
As bad as those throws (and some other incompletions) of Bortles what was more disappointing was the performance of the defense.
At least the offense did something to get back into the game and managed to refocus. (it helped we finally stopped running Fournette on every first down)
The defense was clueless from start to finish (after that stupid non-fumble call they were done), the lack of effort and bad discipline reminded me of the final part of the Titans game when after the offense couldn't stay on the field the defense just collapsed and quit.
I really hope it was just a horrible day for the team and that they regroup and refocus for the playoffs.
As someone who went to Vanderbilt and has followed this team since the beginning I'm used to bad football. And like to think I've developed a sort of spider sense for a bad game vs confidence crushing defeat that ruins a season. Because Ive seen a lot the latter over the decades. And I'm not feeling that. The amount of points we gave up kinda scares me. But this game reeked of a stinker from the get go. Celebrating last week like we won the super bowl, long road trip, perhaps too much confidence, a hot QB that the NFL hasn't quite figured out yet, etc... Also we seem to need a chip on our shoulder. We beat the good teams but lose to the bad ones(and don't forget lousy win over the browns). Most importantly going forward we seem to be a match up team. I'd rather us play QBs that hold the ball and look to throw down field. Quick accurate passing is something we struggle against. And Garop is obviously good at that and was a bad matchup. Our coaches need to figure out a game plan for this because we don't have a great answer.
I am a little worried about titans game cuz we have nothing to play for other than not playing Tennessee again. But I've still got hope when playoff time comes, we will be super fired up no matter who we play. And that seems to be a big deal for us.
With the O line clearly struggling to make holes, am I the only one questioning why Grant is not getting more touches? He is small and can hide behind the line and is fast a Hell. Seems like every time we plug him in he makes plays. With a run game that was clearly not getting it done, I thought we might see him.
Gotta give it to SF though. We ALWAYS come out sluggish on west coast trips and they set the tone early. We were chasing that whole game. By the time we found our rhythm, they were able to make a great pick and never relinquished momentum. Hoping this game gets us good and pissed because every game from here on out we need to play perfect, focused football.
In the end, the game was bad but it’s not the end of the season.
This defense will play better. The offense will clean up once Hurns and Lee come back. I think this team wins the home playoff game and then who knows what can happen. I know they love being the underdog.
It was a rough game but we stink on the west coast. If this game were in Jacksonville, I think we blow them out.
(12-25-2017, 08:19 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]First off, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all of you. Please be safe. This divisional championship-our first since 1999 and the first ever in the AFC South-felt a lot like 1998. If you recall, the Jaguars won the division title-the team's first-due to other teams losing that week. Minus Brunell, who was injured the week before in a home game to Detroit, the team went up to Minnesota and lost 50-3 or something like that. It was great to have won the division, but to get beat like that was not good.
Here are my thoughts on the game.
1. I am unsure whether it was the news that the Titans lost, the team really has a problem playing on the West Coast, the team simply ran into a buzz saw in the 49ers or what, but to me this was clearly the worst performance by the team, top to bottom this year. Generally, it's not what you want going into the playoffs. We had a slim chance of possibly getting a bye, but I can not see Pittsburgh losing these last two regular season games, barring a slew of devastating injuries these last two weeks. Of this team's five losses, three were to teams with losing records (Jets, 49ers, and Cardinals) and at least one was to a tack team that is hovering just above .500. Hopefully, this team learns not to take any team lightly.
2. The obvious takeaway from the game is that Bortles regressed, throwing three picks and could have thrown another. I believe the pick 6 on the crossing route wasn't completely his fault, as Coles got a case of alligator arms/heard footsteps. Still, it was Bortles' responsibility to not lead Coles into that hit and throw it to mitigate the damage Coles would have taken. I am not sure if it was Blake's fault on the deep pass down the sideline where it looked as if he was trying a back shoulder fade and the receiver ran a go or what. What I do know is those three picks killed this team against the 49ers. The question now is does it kill this team going forward in the remainder of the season? First, can Bortles overcome these bad plays this bad game, or will this linger? Even if Bortles can, did Marrone and Hackett lose confidence in Bortles to the point they revert to early season game plans? I believe in conservative football, but if it gets to the point where other teams are saying the team has no faith in Bortles based upon the game plan, then that's a problem. I think the receiving corps without Robinson has shown enough improvement where a repeat of the early season game plans where the team did not attack deep should not happen
3. This was also an ugly game for the defense. Giving up all of those points to the 49ers was not good. The sideline squabble between Malik Jackson and Aaron Colvin was not good. The stupid personal foul penalties-including two in one drive-gave the 49ers offense forty five (45) additional yards on a day they certainly did not need it. While there was incentive for the Jaguars to win to keep pace with Pittsburgh and New England, from a playoff seeding standpoint, realistically, nothing was at stake. Pittsburgh and or New England losing these last two weeks was not likely. If the team will lose poise during this game where comparatively little was at stake, what will happen in the playoffs when things are do or die? I sure hope this game was a lesson in poise.
4. Somehow I knew Jeff Triplette would screw us someway. But that quick whistle on the forward progress fumble left me shaking my head in disbelief (aside from the loud string of profanities I spewed). That call hurt us, but it didn't cost the team the game. Nevertheless, does anybody have any faith that the Jaguars-not being one of the league's glamor franchises-can possibly avoid rectum wrecking calls like that if we go up against Pittsburgh or New England?
5. Special teams generally played well. Mickens and Colvin teamed up nicely on the blocked extra point and 2 point conversion to give us some momentum in the first half. Mickens came close on a couple of other attempts. Lambo's on sides kick was brilliant, especially when you remember Scobee's horrible attempt against the ravens a few years back. But Lambo's missed extra point likely doomed any comeback attempt.
6. I like Poz, but the game showed why so many are ready to replace him. How in the world does a FB get that far behind you on a wheel route to end up with a Forty four (44) yard gain? A half back or 3rd down back? I get it. I even get a TE doing that to him. But a FB?
7. Rookie Watch:
- Leonard Fournette-had minimal impact, though he had a great blitz pickup. The Seattle game aside, his production has fallen off a cliff. We will need much more from him if we are to advance in the postseason.
- Cam Robinson-had some sort of Ab injury that took him out of the game. He was dressed in his game uniform when they showed him on the sidelines a few series later. It didn't hurt us too bad during the game because the 49ers did not have a particularly good pass rusher. But the tacks are good enough rushing the passer that Robinson's absence would be felt. I hope he is okay. Ian Rapoport is saying it likely won't keep him out of the playoffs. The phrase he used is "more of an annoyance..."
- Dawaune Smoot-did not notice him at all.
- Dede Westbrook-had some nice catches, and I thought he scored on that deep pass down the left sideline.
- Blair Brown-left the game with what was thought to be a concussion, but I did not see him get hit on that play.
- Jalen Myrick-blocked that extra point, but I did not notice him much beyond that.
- Keelan Cole-statistically had a nice game, but his short arming that crossing route led to the pick 6.
- Jaydon Mickens-had mostly a quiet game
8. I sure wish we can get some healthy WRs. Jaelen Strong looked decent in his first action with us, but then he got hurt.
9. Bottom line:This game epitomizes "Pyrrhic Victory." Yes, we won the division, and considering where we've been the past few years, that is reason to cheer. But we all want more for this team, and none of us want to see this team limp to a one and done finish in the playoffs. None of us want the tacks to sweep us, much less beat us three times in a season again.
Good list. Comments on some of your points:
2. Marrone said that the first and third INTs were "miscommmunications." The second was clearly Bortles' fault, and it looked like Mickens was open deep for a long gain when Bortles threw that one in traffic, so it was not just a bad throw, it was a bad choice of who to throw to.
3. The defense did not play well. Some credit has to go to Garroppolo for putting the ball exactly where it needed to be. I can think of at least two throws where a couple of inches either way would have resulted in an incompletion or interception.
4. That was a ridiculous call. I don't think the whistle was actually blown at that time, just "forward progress" was stopped. OTOH, several call went the Jags way where replay reviews were inconclusive. Any yes, I can't understand why Triplette is still a ref.
5. Scobee was the worst onside kicker I've ever seen.
Bullseye, I think you're misunderstanding what a Pyrrhic victory is; it's supposed to be a case of winning the battle but at such a cost that you've effectively lost the war. In this case we lost the battle/game but won the war/division. Essentially we're the Romans after the Battles of Heraclea and Asculum.
(12-25-2017, 10:31 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]Bullseye, I think you're misunderstanding what a Pyrrhic victory is; it's supposed to be a case of winning the battle but at such a cost that you've effectively lost the war. In this case we lost the battle/game but won the war/division. Essentially we're the Romans after the Battles of Heraclea and Asculum.
You and Marty are absolutely correct.
I had always understood the term to mean a hollow victory. The standard you and marty have expressed goes beyond a mere hollow victory.
Thank you both for lifting my veil of ignorance.
Yes, bortles did not have a great day. But one pick was a miscommunication with the receiver, and another was the receiver pulling up because he got scared. Everyone saw how pissed that made Keenan on the sideline. I don't think this one game is going to make the jags revert to their shell and not let him still play his game. I think that notion is silly. I'm not going to knew jerk on one not great game. Blake is still my guy.
Of course I really hated the loss but it's funny to see some of the usual suspects show back up now.
We haven't won on the West Coast since 2005
Jimmy G is pretty damn good
This was a meaningless game
Bortles bashers are back, sky is falling again, we suck even though we beat some good teams.
Relax people, first off, no one expected a division title this year so enjoy that, second it was one bad game. They happen. Miami beat NE, Chicago beat Pitt. Bad games happen, let's clean it up and go knock Tennessee out of the playoffs.
Yea we played bad, it happens. It happens everytime we play on the west coast. I expect us to go back and dominate the Titans, this team will be fired up and I know they are going to be prepared for every game in the playoffs. I dont want to say they underestimated the 49ers , but they didnt give their all for whatever the reason. Our boys are gonna ball out in the playoffs. Dont fret just yet, this is a special season for us and there is a lot more in store!
GO JAGS!!!
Myrick and Colvin, not Mickens and Colvin.
@Bullseye