(12-28-2017, 02:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2017, 02:00 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]It was less about the final results and more about being the rah rah guy that a lot of young guys probably deal with better than hard nosed guys like TC and Dougie.
And other than that... we could have wasted a good coach on some years that quite possibly weren't going to be better than 3-5 wins anyway.
Outside of last season, I fail to see how Bradley could have improved the W/L of the team when they were still pretty devoid of talent. His first 2 seasons his entire roster was rookies, first and second year players, with a few marginal veterans. Not sure the best coaches could have done much with that.
However, with last season we needed to see results and they didn't come.
Not sure why you're arguing about it though. No one is saying he was a good coach.
So do you believe he deserves partial credit for how the team is playing this year? Because that’s the point of the thread.
He doesn’t deserve anything. He did nothing to help this team. Not one thing.
In my original response in this thread I said he did not.
I simply offered up what we could be thankful for during his tenure. Being Caldwell's sacrificial lamb while figuring out how to GM on the fly.
And then someone else chimed in they thought he was the right coach for the state of the roster, ah ha a similar thought process.
Which was followed by another poster saying "nuh uhh no way", to which Rico replied you're entitled to your opinion.
And you thought you'd step in and tell a man he has no opinion or there can't be an opinion on the matter.
What happened was a few posters decided to try to take the discussion in a different direction... seeing as almost no one would credit Gus with A) being a good head coach or 2) being a reason we're successful now.
So we said... hey, olive branch, maybe it was good we had him here for this time for this reason.
Feel free to disagree dude. But don't come up in here talking about people's opinions being invalid or the idea they shouldn't have an opinion on the matter.
You don't think Gus was the right guy for the job when the roster tear down was happening? Fine. State as much, counter, and move along.
Somehow I wish we could see how successful anyone would have been 2013-2015 with that roster.
(12-28-2017, 03:05 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]He wasn't a "sacrificial lamb" either. Not even under Caldwell. Bradley came into this city with him. They were supposed to make it work out. And he couldn't get it done. The only sacrificial lambs around here are the fans and season ticket holders. Who had to put up with this [BLEEP] for four years. One of the worst efforts ever seen in the modern era of the NFL's existence.
Cleveland says "hi".
Say what you want about it. But Caldwell, a rookie GM, hand picked a rookie HC, and decided to completely blow up a roster and start from the scratchiest of scratches.
We all may have had high hopes and dreams. But Bradley was given a unique situation to be real. Not just a bad team making a switch but a bad team starting from square one.
It isn't an excuse for Bradley. It isn't a knock on Caldwell. I don't say it to mean he knew Bradley would fail and we'd be terrible for 4 years. But I doubt any coach, especially a rookie HC, would have been successful with what was dealt those first few years.
Once the roster was restored with actual talent it was already too late. Most wanted him gone before 2016. No coach would have survived that sort of rebuild in my opinion.
What would Bradley deserve credit for?
For keeping a bunch of young players relatively relaxed while losing a ton? If you think that's beneficial then I guess you could give him that.
I mean really the only thing you can point to Bradley being good at is for maintaining a positive work atmosphere when things were going bad, and in reality that ended up being a massive detriment to the team.
He was awful and held the team back in most aspects.
In my opinion he deserves no credit. In fact he was a hindrance. But he did prove that Shad is a patient owner and that is actually a positive (in the long run).
(12-28-2017, 03:30 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2017, 02:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]So do you believe he deserves partial credit for how the team is playing this year? Because that’s the point of the thread.
He doesn’t deserve anything. He did nothing to help this team. Not one thing.
In my original response in this thread I said he did not.
I simply offered up what we could be thankful for during his tenure. Being Caldwell's sacrificial lamb while figuring out how to GM on the fly.
And then someone else chimed in they thought he was the right coach for the state of the roster, ah ha a similar thought process.
Which was followed by another poster saying "nuh uhh no way", to which Rico replied you're entitled to your opinion.
And you thought you'd step in and tell a man he has no opinion or there can't be an opinion on the matter.
What happened was a few posters decided to try to take the discussion in a different direction... seeing as almost no one would credit Gus with A) being a good head coach or 2) being a reason we're successful now.
So we said... hey, olive branch, maybe it was good we had him here for this time for this reason.
Feel free to disagree dude. But don't come up in here talking about people's opinions being invalid or the idea they shouldn't have an opinion on the matter.
You don't think Gus was the right guy for the job when the roster tear down was happening? Fine. State as much, counter, and move along.
Somehow I wish we could see how successful anyone would have been 2013-2015 with that roster.
(12-28-2017, 03:05 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]He wasn't a "sacrificial lamb" either. Not even under Caldwell. Bradley came into this city with him. They were supposed to make it work out. And he couldn't get it done. The only sacrificial lambs around here are the fans and season ticket holders. Who had to put up with this [BLEEP] for four years. One of the worst efforts ever seen in the modern era of the NFL's existence.
Cleveland says "hi".
Say what you want about it. But Caldwell, a rookie GM, hand picked a rookie HC, and decided to completely blow up a roster and start from the scratchiest of scratches.
We all may have had high hopes and dreams. But Bradley was given a unique situation to be real. Not just a bad team making a switch but a bad team starting from square one.
It isn't an excuse for Bradley. It isn't a knock on Caldwell. I don't say it to mean he knew Bradley would fail and we'd be terrible for 4 years. But I doubt any coach, especially a rookie HC, would have been successful with what was dealt those first few years.
Once the roster was restored with actual talent it was already too late. Most wanted him gone before 2016. No coach would have survived that sort of rebuild in my opinion.
Bradley was given a tremendous leash and room to breath. Not many owners or front offices would have tolerated or stomached a .226% W-L average. Cleveland as a front office and as far as ownership goes has been pretty terrible. I'll give you that. But as far as overall coaching and individual responsibility. Bradley is historically the worst head coach in a four year time span in the modern era of football. I think some coaches could have survived that rebuild. I am not saying Caldwell doesn't deserve some of the blame. There's a reason why Coughlin was brought here.
But Bradley should have been able to manage or do a better job as a coach. His attitude and approach was soft and he seemed to award and condone losing. Which only continued to manifest and fester in the locker room. He didn't crack down on his team. He didn't shake up anybody or anything. He's just not a disciplinarian and this team needed it. He's a nice guy. He knows defense. And when he only has to focus on defense and just eleven starters and some rotational players he can be a quality coach. But I don't see him ever head coaching in the NFL again. He'll be another Rod Marinelli. Who was just as terrible during a three year time span.
If you have the worst win percentage in history, you’re not the right man for the job. It’s pretty simple.
If the Browns bring in a new coach and they go to the playoffs, does Hue Jackson get credit for a good foundation?
I'm not whizzing on anyone's opinion or looking for an olive branch either. I don't need you to be wrong to be right. As a fan I don't give him credit. I apologize if my differing opinion was fodder for someone else saying nah wrong to you. Hey opinions are fun and at least this year we are having fun threads while we have a winning team.
I, for one, think he should get some credit. He inherited a team that was stripped to the bone in a manner that would make a buzzard jealous. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. Did he pour his heart and soul into Jacksonville and the Jaguars? Yes he did too. Sometimes timing is everything. Would this team have won the division with Gus this year? Maybe, maybe not. The man has never had a bad thing to say about this team or town to this day, so I in turn will not say anything bad about him. Did he come up short? There is no opinion there. It's hard to say what could have been. All that being said, I am very pleased to have Coughlin and Marrone running the ship these days.
I hope this made some sense.
LMAO absolutely not
not a single bit
(12-28-2017, 07:53 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ]I, for one, think he should get some credit. He inherited a team that was stripped to the bone in a manner that would make a buzzard jealous. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. Did he pour his heart and soul into Jacksonville and the Jaguars? Yes he did too. Sometimes timing is everything. Would this team have won the division with Gus this year? Maybe, maybe not. The man has never had a bad thing to say about this team or town to this day, so I in turn will not say anything bad about him. Did he come up short? There is no opinion there. It's hard to say what could have been. All that being said, I am very pleased to have Coughlin and Marrone running the ship these days.
I hope this made some sense.
I hear what you're saying but Gus is just a bad head football coach, not everyone has what it takes to sit in that chair. He's a reasonably good DC, he should consider staying in that kind of role.
He was toxic as HC. We needed the change in focus and culture.
If Gus was still the HC of the Jags we'd be last in the division again this year, guaranteed.
Gus's "culture" is why this team stayed bad.
New culture, different team in just one week.
I don't trust a guy who smiles all the time.
Blake Bortles sank the career of Gus Bradley. Gus tied himself to BB, hoping he would learn from his mistakes. He didn't,..............until this year. BB saw the 'GENERAL', TOM COUGHLIN, enter the picture, and quickly cleaned up his act!
Without Gus, we never would have been in a position to draft Jaylen Ramsey --- guess he gets credit for that.
(12-29-2017, 01:34 PM)Joe/8931 Wrote: [ -> ]Blake Bortles sank the career of Gus Bradley. Gus tied himself to BB, hoping he would learn from his mistakes. He didn't,..............until this year. BB saw the 'GENERAL', TOM COUGHLIN, enter the picture, and quickly cleaned up his act!
I mean this could be one of the dumbest things I've ever read, and wouldn't surprise me if other "fans" believed this garbage.
You really think he saw somebody and decided to straighten up or do you think maybe the previous coaching regime didn't coach him properly? Do you think maybe the current coaching regime taught him correctly not to put yourself in bad situations and throw interceptions. It's the previous coaching staffs fault that it all happened over and over because they kept throwing it in those situations and calling those plays.
Gus bought a bunch of car parts, but didn't know how to put them together, nor drive.
I admit Gus was put into a bad situation. Even Dave said Gus gets a pass for 2013 and 2014 because of the severe rebuild. But at some point you have to produce. Shad was patient, but 4 years was enough. I give Todd Wash and Doug Marrone more credit than Gus.
(12-29-2017, 02:36 PM)UCF Knight Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2017, 01:34 PM)Joe/8931 Wrote: [ -> ]Blake Bortles sank the career of Gus Bradley. Gus tied himself to BB, hoping he would learn from his mistakes. He didn't,..............until this year. BB saw the 'GENERAL', TOM COUGHLIN, enter the picture, and quickly cleaned up his act!
I mean this could be one of the dumbest things I've ever read, and wouldn't surprise me if other "fans" believed this garbage.
You really think he saw somebody and decided to straighten up or do you think maybe the previous coaching regime didn't coach him properly? Do you think maybe the current coaching regime taught him correctly not to put yourself in bad situations and throw interceptions. It's the previous coaching staffs fault that it all happened over and over because they kept throwing it in those situations and calling those plays.
Not worthy of a response. Patient has no insight!
(12-28-2017, 07:53 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ]I, for one, think he should get some credit. He inherited a team that was stripped to the bone in a manner that would make a buzzard jealous. Did he have his faults? Of course he did. Did he pour his heart and soul into Jacksonville and the Jaguars? Yes he did too. Sometimes timing is everything. Would this team have won the division with Gus this year? Maybe, maybe not. The man has never had a bad thing to say about this team or town to this day, so I in turn will not say anything bad about him. Did he come up short? There is no opinion there. It's hard to say what could have been. All that being said, I am very pleased to have Coughlin and Marrone running the ship these days.
I hope this made some sense.
I agree. I think Gus had a positive effect on many players on a individual personal level. You could see it in their greetings after the Chargers game. There was respect and even love. Clearly, Gus was not a good head coach, but I think it's reasonable to assume some on the roster during his tenure are better football players and better individuals as a result of exposure to his approach to life.
A point has been made here and elsewhere that Gus was the right coach for the massive rebuild planned by Dave Caldwell, a gung-ho positive attitude guy who could keep an young undermanned team motivated. Heck, for all we know, he may have been the only remotely viable candidate willing to take it on after hearing of Caldwell's plan.
To me, they played like a different team the last two games of last season under Marrone. That change, for the most part, has carried over to this season. That was enough for me to wish Gus well.