The Treasury Department has announced that this year, which is Trump's first year in charge of the budget, the deficit will be $995 billion. Last year it was $519 billion.
This is part of what's driving the selloff in stocks this past week. Additional federal borrowing will force interest rates upward.
Here's my opinion: There is a limit to how much the federal government can borrow. We just haven't found it yet. But when we do find it, we will have an enormous disaster.
If you are going to challenge The Drifter, at least post good stuff.
That is not taking in to account the added tax revenue from the higher wages, higher employment, and the corporate taxes....
That number will come down
(02-04-2018, 10:14 AM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]That is not taking in to account the added tax revenue from the higher wages, higher employment, and the corporate taxes....
That number will come down
I think anyone that loves America would pray that you are correct. Whether we believe it is another matter.
Feels like a repeat from 2009 for some reason.
(02-04-2018, 10:56 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Feels like a repeat from 2009 for some reason.
Except that we're not in a deep deep recession like we were in 2009.
I'm not surprised no should anyone be really surprised. President Trump's alot of things but a fiscal conservative is not one of them. I expect Trump will continue the tradition of spending like a drunken sailor hell where do we think we're getting 25 billion for a wall and 1.4 trillion for infrastructure from?
Best bet is the economy grows at a pace to match spending but at some point it all comes to an end. Ive thought a few times we where getting close but now I just think the dollar is a weed that's so intertwined with the world economy it'll survive until a global currency emerges.
Are they still double-dipping into our Social Securty?
(02-04-2018, 11:10 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not surprised no should anyone be really surprised. President Trump's alot of things but a fiscal conservative is not one of them. I expect Trump will continue the tradition of spending like a drunken sailor hell where do we think we're getting 25 billion for a wall and 1.4 trillion for infrastructure from?
Best bet is the economy grows at a pace to match spending but at some point it all comes to an end. Ive thought a few times we where getting close but now I just think the dollar is a weed that's so intertwined with the world economy it'll survive until a global currency emerges.
Enter cryptocurrency. Bitcoin isn't the one that will figure it out, but there are some highly promising algorithms out there. Eventually, the US, the EU or China will create or latch onto one and sanction it as a state currency, and then the dominoes fall.
But, yeah, Trump is as fiscally conservative as FDR. Economically, we're riding high for now, but if he keeps spending while slicing corporate taxes and bleeding his source of income dry to appease his overlords, we're headed for a fall.
(02-04-2018, 08:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]
Here's my opinion: There is a limit to how much the federal government can borrow. We just haven't found it yet. But when we do find it, we will have an enormous disaster.
That's not just an opinion, it's reality. Unfortunately, nobody in Washington seems to understand that.
(02-04-2018, 11:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2018, 10:56 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Feels like a repeat from 2009 for some reason.
Except that we're not in a deep deep recession like we were in 2009.
Indeed, but government income wasn't a problem then either. In fact, government income has never once been the reason that we have economic issues.
We don't have a revenue problem, we have a SPENDING problem in DC
(02-04-2018, 08:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]The Treasury Department has announced that this year, which is Trump's first year in charge of the budget, the deficit will be $995 billion. Last year it was $519 billion.
This is part of what's driving the selloff in stocks this past week. Additional federal borrowing will force interest rates upward.
Here's my opinion: There is a limit to how much the federal government can borrow. We just haven't found it yet. But when we do find it, we will have an enormous disaster.
I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be true, Trump is not a fiscal conservative, the Dems are never fiscally conservative, and the Pubs only act that way when the Dems control the House, Senate, and/or Presidency.
But the US government has not passed a budget bill, so this is just pure speculation at this point.
When investors start to lose faith in the ability of the federal government to manage its finances, they will start to demand greater interest payments on federal debt. That will mean the government has to issue new debt and roll over old debt at higher rates of interest. That means the government will have to borrow more money just to pay the increased interest on the debt. That will further depress investors' faith in the financial management of the US government. And that will drive interest rates ever higher. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. The debt spirals out of control. At that point, the government either "prints" the money to cover the debt, or it declares bankruptcy. So either we have spiraling inflation, or we have a worldwide depression.
I challenge anyone to refute any of that.
We can still manage our way through this fiscal problem, but we have shown no inclination to even try.
(02-04-2018, 02:51 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]When investors start to lose faith in the ability of the federal government to manage its finances, they will start to demand greater interest payments on federal debt. That will mean the government has to issue new debt and roll over old debt at higher rates of interest. That means the government will have to borrow more money just to pay the increased interest on the debt. That will further depress investors' faith in the financial management of the US government. And that will drive interest rates ever higher. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. The debt spirals out of control. At that point, the government either "prints" the money to cover the debt, or it declares bankruptcy. So either we have spiraling inflation, or we have a worldwide depression.
I challenge anyone to refute any of that.
We can still manage our way through this fiscal problem, but we have shown no inclination to even try.
I don't refute it, but the largest investor in America is still the American people and the next creditor is not close. All we have to do to fix this is elect people who will actually reduce the size and scope of the government; no small task when those getting elected every year do so on a platform of doing the exact opposite.
(02-04-2018, 02:51 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]When investors start to lose faith in the ability of the federal government to manage its finances, they will start to demand greater interest payments on federal debt. That will mean the government has to issue new debt and roll over old debt at higher rates of interest. That means the government will have to borrow more money just to pay the increased interest on the debt. That will further depress investors' faith in the financial management of the US government. And that will drive interest rates ever higher. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. The debt spirals out of control. At that point, the government either "prints" the money to cover the debt, or it declares bankruptcy. So either we have spiraling inflation, or we have a worldwide depression.
I challenge anyone to refute any of that.
We can still manage our way through this fiscal problem, but we have shown no inclination to even try.
There is a lot to be concerned about with the way the Federal government spends money like a drunken sailor (a comparison that's grossly unfair to drunken sailors). But you are at least nine years too late if that's the point of this thread.
Free spending isn't something new that started with Trump.
It's a difficult fix because as flsportsgod said above, those running for office run on the principal of doing the exact opposite. It's a deep problem that won't be fixed by any one president and may not ever get corrected until we collapse.
Government spending is off the rails and has been for many years with no signs of a change.
It's not that we're spending money on unnecessary things, it's who we're buying the stuff from and how much they get away with charging the government. We spend more on military spending in this country than the next 8 countries behind us, combined. Why? Because politicians make deals with heads of certain corporations who make military goods and basically allow them to charge ungodly markups on items that cost them pennies on the dollar to make. It's ridiculous what these companies like Halliburton, McDonnell Douglas, Sperry Corporation, Gould Corporation and others are getting away with by overcharging the government. Add this to the outrageous cost of what we spend "gifting" foreign countries with military equipment and it seems criminal. No one is addressing this though. If we could reign in these two areas, we could cut the deficit greatly, but no conservatives even want to address military spending, unless it's adding more money to the piles of cash we're already wasting.
(02-04-2018, 02:03 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2018, 11:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Except that we're not in a deep deep recession like we were in 2009.
Indeed, but government income wasn't a problem then either. In fact, government income has never once been the reason that we have economic issues.
Income is never the problem. It's those pesky expenditures that are killing us.
I'm all in favor of reducing foreign aid, though maybe not through the same methodology as Trump. I believe that we need to slash our military spending. How many trillion dollar superfighters that lose dogfights to F-16s do we really need? Welfare should be cut dramatically and given much stricter criteria. Want welfare? Pee in a cup and show me written proof of the five job interviews you've had this week. I think the wall is asinine, and an economic and legal wall would be much cheaper and more effective. I could go on and on, but the point is made. I'm very conservative financially--hell, I don't even buy a toy for myself unless I'm sure I can flip it on eBay in a month for 150% of what I paid for it.
(02-04-2018, 07:58 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It's not that we're spending money on unnecessary things, it's who we're buying the stuff from and how much they get away with charging the government. We spend more on military spending in this country than the next 8 countries behind us, combined. Why? Because politicians make deals with heads of certain corporations who make military goods and basically allow them to charge ungodly markups on items that cost them pennies on the dollar to make. It's ridiculous what these companies like Halliburton, McDonnell Douglas, Sperry Corporation, Gould Corporation and others are getting away with by overcharging the government. Add this to the outrageous cost of what we spend "gifting" foreign countries with military equipment and it seems criminal. No one is addressing this though. If we could reign in these two areas, we could cut the deficit greatly, but no conservatives even want to address military spending, unless it's adding more money to the piles of cash we're already wasting.
That is admittedly a big part but unnecessary spending is a problem on its own too. It may not be as much individually as defense spending but our government wastes tons of money on unnecessary purchases, programs etc.