Going into year 3, are you glad we drafted Fowler over Williams? Or Beasley?
Looking back on it, I think we got the right guy. But I'll be honest, I haven't looked at the numbers.
He was the right pick at the time, we all know the story with year 1, in year 2 he was underwhelming, fast forward to last year and he was really good on a lower amount of snaps than Yannick.
I believe Fowler had more sacks per snap last season than anyone on our team. It remains to be seen if he would still be as effective if you up his snaps, but I believe he still hasn't reached his ceiling.
Compared to the other two players, it's hard to argue still then or now that Fowler wasn't the right choice.
I agree. You have to also account for his "splash" plays. He makes game changing plays. To where Williams is more of a clogger.
Fowler has required patience from the fans and organization. His athleticism was great from day one, but his skills to be impactful on the NFL level are beginning to emerge.
He had 8 sacks on 20 total pressures last year. Remember when people were warning that Beasley's league leading sack total two years ago was worrisome because he had an unsustainable 15.5 sacks on 54 pressures? Obviously the early hamstring tear didn't help Beasley, but the stat people were right that he was due for quite a lot of regression.
Well, Fowler's disparity is even bigger so there is a lot to worry about there. The elite pass rushers can keep around a 6-1 pressure to sack ratio, normal starting level pass rushers are around 8-1...and Fowler was 2.5-1. Even if he actually gets better with another year of maturity his sack total could easily go down.
I think a lot of our players may see the sack numbers drop because having multiple 10-sack games where everyone is getting in on the action isn’t very likely to happen again.
Williams has reached a higher level than Fowler in his respective position so him. I do love how Fowler plays though.
I wanted Williams then and I still would rather have Williams over Fowler.
If not Fowler then Brandon Scherff would of been the best pick
(02-27-2018, 08:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted Williams then and I still would rather have Williams over Fowler.
Agreed with this. Was not mad about the Fowler pick, but I have not been happy with it.
Another thing to keep in mind, Fowler has shown serious off the field concers.
Fowler was a monster the first half of the AFCCG
Had they taken Williams then they might not have Calais, so I'm happy with how it worked out.
(02-27-2018, 08:47 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2018, 08:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted Williams then and I still would rather have Williams over Fowler.
Agreed with this. Was not mad about the Fowler pick, but I have not been happy with it.
Another thing to keep in mind, Fowler has shown serious off the field concers.
For this reason, I wouldn't resign him. Bundle Fowler and the low first-round pick this year to move up and grab Mayfield or Rosen, or just allow Fowler to move on and get a high comp pick for him. Pay Yannick instead.
I have no stats to back this up, but how many times do we see someone else get the sack while the opposition is getting in a mess trying to block Fowler?
He’s always a threat.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On draft day I wanted Leonard Williams. And that's honestly because I don't trust Florida Gator players in the NFL from the defensive side of the football. Looking back at the last two seasons though. I am okay with Dante Fowler Jr. because we ultimately ended up landing Malik Jackson to play inside and Marcell Dareus being added mid season has also helped out along the interior.
Consider this as well. Fowler is barely two years removed from that ACL injury. He was technically a rookie in 2016 trying to get his game speed back and trying to stay in game shape. He played for a dysfunctional and weak head coach that had no control over his players. He was constantly embattled. I think seeing him in limited action in 2017 was great. He flashed a lot. He also did a hell of a job in the New England game in that AFCC loss. I think he was the only player that registered a sack or two.
I think he'll be better in 2018. Hopefully he links up with Ngakoue and Campbell during the off-season to work on his technique.
(02-27-2018, 08:47 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2018, 08:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted Williams then and I still would rather have Williams over Fowler.
Agreed with this. Was not mad about the Fowler pick, but I have not been happy with it.
Another thing to keep in mind, Fowler has shown serious off the field concers.
He wasn't suspended by the NFL and he's had maybe one incident revolving around two girls in his life which he had no part of physically. And then he had the goofy incident with the guy that he took his bottle from or whatever. I don't consider those "serious off the field concerns".
When he starts getting DUI's, cuffed for domestic violence or banned for substance abuse then I'll worry about him. He's still a young man. Not even 24 yet. So the kid was basically barely old enough to drink when those two incidents occurred. I would like to see how some of you "well mannered" guys on here would act at that age with millions of dollars in your bank account. It's a lot easier said than done.
Any of us on here can claim that "holier than thou" [BLEEP] too.
(02-27-2018, 10:18 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Had they taken Williams then they might not have Calais, so I'm happy with how it worked out.
Agreed. We may not have signed up Malik Jackson too. Who has honestly played better than he did in DEN statistically here for us just over the last two years.
Fowler barely plays too. His contract year this upcoming season. He more than likely won't get tagged so I would definitely expect another team to pay him big bucks and he would want to start I'm guessing than be a situational pass rusher that only plays on 3rd downs.
He’s still super young, so much room for growth, and plays every down like it’s his last. As long as it’s reasonably disciplined, the violence with which he plays is fantastic.
(02-27-2018, 02:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]On draft day I wanted Leonard Williams. And that's honestly because I don't trust Florida Gator players in the NFL from the defensive side of the football. Looking back at the last two seasons though. I am okay with Dante Fowler Jr. because we ultimately ended up landing Malik Jackson to play inside and Marcell Dareus being added mid season has also helped out along the interior.
Consider this as well. Fowler is barely two years removed from that ACL injury. He was technically a rookie in 2016 trying to get his game speed back and trying to stay in game shape. He played for a dysfunctional and weak head coach that had no control over his players. He was constantly embattled. I think seeing him in limited action in 2017 was great. He flashed a lot. He also did a hell of a job in the New England game in that AFCC loss. I think he was the only player that registered a sack or two.
I think he'll be better in 2018. Hopefully he links up with Ngakoue and Campbell during the off-season to work on his technique.
(02-27-2018, 08:47 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed with this. Was not mad about the Fowler pick, but I have not been happy with it.
Another thing to keep in mind, Fowler has shown serious off the field concers.
He wasn't suspended by the NFL and he's had maybe one incident revolving around two girls in his life which he had no part of physically. And then he had the goofy incident with the guy that he took his bottle from or whatever. I don't consider those "serious off the field concerns".
When he starts getting DUI's, cuffed for domestic violence or banned for substance abuse then I'll worry about him. He's still a young man. Not even 24 yet. So the kid was basically barely old enough to drink when those two incidents occurred. I would like to see how some of you "well mannered" guys on here would act at that age with millions of dollars in your bank account. It's a lot easier said than done.
Any of us on here can claim that "holier than thou" [BLEEP] too.
He had tons of speeding tickets. Was arrested in 2016 for assaulting an officer/resisting arrest at the Miami beach. Had the incident with the two ladies (not a crime but you wouldn't see Calais Campbell in that kind of situation) and had the incident where he assaulted the man.
By all accounts he is maturing and guys like Calais will only help him grow but yeah that off the field stuff is not good at all. It's not holier than thou to say that either.
(02-27-2018, 03:48 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2018, 02:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]On draft day I wanted Leonard Williams. And that's honestly because I don't trust Florida Gator players in the NFL from the defensive side of the football. Looking back at the last two seasons though. I am okay with Dante Fowler Jr. because we ultimately ended up landing Malik Jackson to play inside and Marcell Dareus being added mid season has also helped out along the interior.
Consider this as well. Fowler is barely two years removed from that ACL injury. He was technically a rookie in 2016 trying to get his game speed back and trying to stay in game shape. He played for a dysfunctional and weak head coach that had no control over his players. He was constantly embattled. I think seeing him in limited action in 2017 was great. He flashed a lot. He also did a hell of a job in the New England game in that AFCC loss. I think he was the only player that registered a sack or two.
I think he'll be better in 2018. Hopefully he links up with Ngakoue and Campbell during the off-season to work on his technique.
He wasn't suspended by the NFL and he's had maybe one incident revolving around two girls in his life which he had no part of physically. And then he had the goofy incident with the guy that he took his bottle from or whatever. I don't consider those "serious off the field concerns".
When he starts getting DUI's, cuffed for domestic violence or banned for substance abuse then I'll worry about him. He's still a young man. Not even 24 yet. So the kid was basically barely old enough to drink when those two incidents occurred. I would like to see how some of you "well mannered" guys on here would act at that age with millions of dollars in your bank account. It's a lot easier said than done.
Any of us on here can claim that "holier than thou" [BLEEP] too.
He had tons of speeding tickets. Was arrested in 2016 for assaulting an officer/resisting arrest at the Miami beach. Had the incident with the two ladies (not a crime but you wouldn't see Calais Campbell in that kind of situation) and had the incident where he assaulted the man.
By all accounts he is maturing and guys like Calais will only help him grow but yeah that off the field stuff is not good at all. It's not holier than thou to say that either.
Sure it is. Obviously wasn't that much of a big deal to the NFL because he wasn't suspended for any of the above situations. Tons of speeding tickets? Whoooooaaaaaaa man. Whooooooaaaaaa. We've got a bad apple there. And how do you know about that regarding Calais Campbell? Just because he hasn't been busted or caught doesn't mean he's some type of Saint... that's a terrible assumption. Marvin Harrison was considered a silent saint during his career with the clots and he was linked to a shooting outside a bar in Philadelphia at one point during or post his career.
Ray Lewis was linked to a double murder yet it's rarely mentioned today and other than that incident he was considered a decent player on and off the field. Same can be said for Jimmy Smith here in Jacksonville where he had maybe one or two run ins with being busted for cocaine yet he had been doing it during his career for apparently a long time.
And it is holier than thou to make such claims because I can assure you not all of us are perfect or saints around here and it's easier to crucify somebody at a young age that probably sees more money up front in ONE day compared to what some of us will be lucky to see in ONE lifetime. You also compared him to Campbell. A guy that's over 30 now to a kid, whose not even 24 and had all of those issues occur two years ago when he was barely old enough to drink. Poor comparison. And I am not absolving Dante from being a bonehead with a few spotty decisions here and there. But people act like he's been suspended for multiple games by the NFL and he's some headcase like Justin Blackmon or that dirt bag at DE that got another chance in Dallas....