Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

With all the moves in FA.. Why not just grab Lamar Jackson and Mark Andrews..

I'll take a hard pass on Jackson. Give me a pocket passer like Mason Rudolph or even Mike White.

No thanks

(03-13-2018, 11:36 PM)chris hill Wrote: [ -> ]With all the moves in FA.. Why not just grab Lamar Jackson and Mark Andrews..

Running QBs have a short NFL life expectancy. Andrews is NOT the type of guy to throw a block at all.

i agree; but with the other QBs getting love around these parts, you might want to keep it down lol.

(03-14-2018, 12:53 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I'll take a hard pass on Jackson. Give me a pocket passer like Mason Rudolph or even Mike White.

I agree.  Not interested in a dual threat qb.  They practically never become top tier franchise quarterbacks.

I would definitely like to see us take a QB early, as long as it isn't Jackson.

Would love this, but I realise I'm in the minority with that opinion.

(03-15-2018, 02:32 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Would love this, but I realise I'm in the minority with that opinion.

You're really not it's more that the Jackson haters are just very loud, especially on these forums.

(03-15-2018, 09:28 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-14-2018, 12:53 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I'll take a hard pass on Jackson. Give me a pocket passer like Mason Rudolph or even Mike White.

I agree.  Not interested in a dual threat qb.  They practically never become top tier franchise quarterbacks.

Interesting.

Leftwich was reviled here in part because he was immobile, yet here, you show an aversion to a "dual threat" QB even though he has mobility for days.

Does Bortles count as a dual threat QB?

Did Steve Young?  Steve McNair?  McNabb?

Is there such a thing as a QB with too much mobility?

(03-15-2018, 03:13 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2018, 02:32 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Would love this, but I realise I'm in the minority with that opinion.

You're really not it's more that the Jackson haters are just very loud, especially on these forums.

This is hilarious, you calling anybody loud.

(03-15-2018, 03:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2018, 09:28 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  Not interested in a dual threat qb.  They practically never become top tier franchise quarterbacks.

Interesting.

Leftwich was reviled here in part because he was immobile, yet here, you show an aversion to a "dual threat" QB even though he has mobility for days.

Does Bortles count as a dual threat QB?

Did Steve Young?  Steve McNair?  McNabb?

Is there such a thing as a QB with too much mobility?

Mobility is one thing. Relying on your legs as a major part of your game is another thing. Success with NFL quarterbacks comes in the pocket. Also, one of the major knocks on him is his lack of accuracy. Rudolph is superior on both counts while still being mobile. 

 As I recall, early in their careers McNair and McNabb had issues with accuracy. Young and more recently Wilson have not. I suppose it’s what you see in the individual quarterback. I just think that Jackson is too much of a project and not an upgrade in the near term over what we have already.

(03-15-2018, 04:13 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2018, 03:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting.

Leftwich was reviled here in part because he was immobile, yet here, you show an aversion to a "dual threat" QB even though he has mobility for days.

Does Bortles count as a dual threat QB?

Did Steve Young?  Steve McNair?  McNabb?

Is there such a thing as a QB with too much mobility?

Mobility is one thing. Relying on your legs as a major part of your game is another thing. Success with NFL quarterbacks comes in the pocket. Also, one of the major knocks on him is his lack of accuracy. Rudolph is superior on both counts while still being mobile. 

 As I recall, early in their careers McNair and McNabb had issues with accuracy. Young and more recently Wilson have not. I suppose it’s what you see in the individual quarterback. I just think that Jackson is too much of a project and not an upgrade in the near term over what we have already.

In other words, irrespective of level of mobility, a QBs primary function is to be able to operate effectively within the pocket (presnap reads, pass drops, reading the defense, sensing the rush, mechanics, quick and good decision making, accuracy, etc).  A QB can have mobility, but without the ability to function effectively within the pocket, a "dual threat" QB is nothing of the sort.

(03-15-2018, 05:04 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2018, 04:13 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Mobility is one thing. Relying on your legs as a major part of your game is another thing. Success with NFL quarterbacks comes in the pocket. Also, one of the major knocks on him is his lack of accuracy. Rudolph is superior on both counts while still being mobile. 

 As I recall, early in their careers McNair and McNabb had issues with accuracy. Young and more recently Wilson have not. I suppose it’s what you see in the individual quarterback. I just think that Jackson is too much of a project and not an upgrade in the near term over what we have already.

In other words, irrespective of level of mobility, a QBs primary function is to be able to operate effectively within the pocket (presnap reads, pass drops, reading the defense, sensing the rush, mechanics, quick and good decision making, accuracy, etc).  A QB can have mobility, but without the ability to function effectively within the pocket, a "dual threat" QB is nothing of the sort.

I disagree with that definition (and I suspect you do, too).  If you cannot operate within the pocket at all, you're not in the league.  It is a matter of operating there with competence.   Blake has sometimes struggled with it, but has been improving.  I don't think he has ever been considered a running qb.  RG3 relied too much on his legs, didn't have adequate pocket skills, and then through misuse was injured and never had the opportunity to develop as he might have.  Steve Young had the label of a running qb back in the day (when he was coming out of college).  But his pocket skills were ok AND he had time to develop them.  Mike Vick was the exception, I think.  While he never developed his accuracy to my liking, he had most of the other pocket skills.  He was a transcendent talent! And he was never a champion.

All that being said, I think you're objecting to my use of "dual threat".  I'd love to see you plainly articulate why.

(03-15-2018, 06:53 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2018, 05:04 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]In other words, irrespective of level of mobility, a QBs primary function is to be able to operate effectively within the pocket (presnap reads, pass drops, reading the defense, sensing the rush, mechanics, quick and good decision making, accuracy, etc).  A QB can have mobility, but without the ability to function effectively within the pocket, a "dual threat" QB is nothing of the sort.

I disagree with that definition (and I suspect you do, too).  If you cannot operate within the pocket at all, you're not in the league.  It is a matter of operating there with competence.   Blake has sometimes struggled with it, but has been improving.  I don't think he has ever been considered a running qb.  RG3 relied too much on his legs, didn't have adequate pocket skills, and then through misuse was injured and never had the opportunity to develop as he might have.  Steve Young had the label of a running qb back in the day (when he was coming out of college).  But his pocket skills were ok AND he had time to develop them.  Mike Vick was the exception, I think.  While he never developed his accuracy to my liking, he had most of the other pocket skills.  He was a transcendent talent! And he was never a champion.

All that being said, I think you're objecting to my use of "dual threat".  I'd love to see you plainly articulate why.

I don't disagree with that definition, and despite your protest, your subsequent clarification indicates we are more in agreement than you might think.

I have used it for years to explain the distinction between an effective passer what has the ability to scramble and a highly mobile guy who can't function as a passer who happens to play QB.

I'm not objecting to your use of the term "dual threat" as I am to what I perceive to be the inconsistent view of QB mobiilty.

There have been plenty of successful mobile QBs throughout the years.

Fran Tarkenton, Roger "the dodger" Staubach, Joe Montana, John Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Joe Theismann, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Russell Wilson, Mark Brunell, Rich Gannon are but a few QBs who have succeeded in the NFL being mobile and having the ability to scramble.  If you watched any of them play, you'd know their mobility was a HUGE part of their games.

There have also been guys who have had similar or superior mobility to the guys listed above like Cade McNown, Rick Mirer, Reggie Collier, Heath Shuler, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Vince Young, RG III and many others who have failed miserably.

What's the difference between group A and group B?

I've always thought drafting Lamar and letting him sit the entire year is the best plan possible for the future.  Would love for us to draft him.

(03-16-2018, 11:05 AM)jg77 Wrote: [ -> ]I've always thought drafting Lamar and letting him sit the entire year is the best plan possible for the future.  Would love for us to draft him.

One thing to consider is that Jackson's coach at Louisville, Bobby Petrino, was once offensive coordinator under Coughlin when Coughlin was here.

Assuming they departed on good terms, Petrino could give the team insight on whether Jackson is a viable NFL QB prospect or not.

(03-16-2018, 11:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-16-2018, 11:05 AM)jg77 Wrote: [ -> ]I've always thought drafting Lamar and letting him sit the entire year is the best plan possible for the future.  Would love for us to draft him.

One thing to consider is that Jackson's coach at Louisville, Bobby Petrino, was once offensive coordinator under Coughlin when Coughlin was here.

Assuming they departed on good terms, Petrino could give the team insight on whether Jackson is a viable NFL QB prospect or not.

Coughlin drafted Garrard,  correct?

(03-16-2018, 11:14 AM)jg77 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-16-2018, 11:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]One thing to consider is that Jackson's coach at Louisville, Bobby Petrino, was once offensive coordinator under Coughlin when Coughlin was here.

Assuming they departed on good terms, Petrino could give the team insight on whether Jackson is a viable NFL QB prospect or not.

Coughlin drafted Garrard,  correct?

That is correct.  Why do you ask?

Not a huge fan of Jackson but if he's there when we pick in the 2nd might be hard to pass up.
I assume you meant Andrews in the first and Jackson in the 2nd.

I would not select Jackson at 29, personally.