(03-19-2018, 10:27 AM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't hate the idea. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Lol
I feel pretty much the same. It's just that, if he's going to be rushing the passer, we shouldn't put him at SLB. In our defense, and in most 4-3 defenses, SLB is not a pass rushing position. Besides, we don't want to do a whole lot of blitzing. One of the best things about our defense is the ability to get pressure with just 4 down linemen. Like any team, we would much prefer to be able to drop 7 guys into coverage.
We've had a top 5 defense the last two years with him keeping his hand on the ground.
In a part time role, he had ten sacks including the playoffs, including, IIRC, two sacks of Tom Brady in the AFC championship game. He's developed nicely in his current role.
While moving him to SLB might add a different wrinkle to the defense, I'm not sure it's entirely necessary.
I don't think finding a 4-3 strong side backer should be too difficult without having to uproot Fowler.
(assuming the plan is to have Jack at MLB full time)
The rotation they have currently on the D-Line is quite effective and Fowler has really just begun to grow into the rotational edge rushing role.
I think he'd probably be more useful there opposed to learning a different position in the scheme.
I'm all for getting the most talent on the field and finding creative ways to put players in positions to succeed. Poz's retirement creates a hole at one of the LB positions. Jack & Smith will continue to be the 2 LB's on the field for nickel. So that means that on base downs we need someone to fill the SLB role now that Jack is assumed to move inside to MLB full time. Here are the options we have at filling that hole:
a) Blair Brown
b) Play Nickel as our Base D
c) draft a Rookie
d) Play Fowler at SLB, and in Nickel/3rd & long have the NT (Dareus or Jones) come off the field, Calais kick inside, and Fowler play with his hand in the ground.
I like Blair Brown, but I don't believe he's fully ready as last year when an injury created an opportunity against Arizona, he was exploited frequently. I also don't believe he's a true SLB, IMO Brown fits better as a WLB given his skillset.
We struggled against the run last year, if we were to play this as our base we'd be run all over again, even the addition of Dareus can't overcome a numbers disparity in the Box with 1 less defender due to Nickel
Draft a rookie. While probably the most likely option given that SLB is a part time position that comes off the field in nickel situations; there will be less of a learning curve for a rookie to get a grasp of their responsibilities from a mental standpoint so they can play fast. But who's available and how early do you draft them? I like Roquan Smith but he's more of a middle linebacker.. if we go this route I'm sure Caldwell, Coughlin & Co. have someone specific in mind.
Fowler to SLB makes a lot of sense. at the combine he measured 6'3" 261 (no idea what he is now) he ran a 4.60 40 yard dash and had a 4.32 short shuttle. This past year, I've seen them firezone him out to the flat a few times where he hasn't been exposed and even at his weight he clearly has the speed, agility to play in space. The Pros and cons to the move are this:
Pros: We get another big body out there in base against the run. Fowler can set the edge, plays violently and from the limited amount we've seen can hold his own in space running to the sideline, covering flats, shrot zones. Having him out there is another pass rusher that the Offense has to account for, he can be sent on a stunt, a delayed blitz; If he's coverage responsibility stays in to block he'd be a nightmare on a "Green Dog" concept, and can even be audibled to have a Safety pick up his guy if they recognize something at snap that they want to send him to disrupt. It's just another way of getting our most talented 11 on the field. Much like Kiwanuka on the Giants he can still play with his hand on the ground for 3rd downs and rotate in as a pass rusher if we're nickel heavy that game and want to get him snaps. He projects to the position very well and is comparable on paper to Bruce Irvin from a size scheme fit perspective; he was billed as a "Lights out 3-4 SLB" coming out of the draft. Lastly, if he were to excel, the contract extension for a SLB is MUCH MUCH cheaper than for a DE.
Cons: He's developed decently thus far as a DE passrusher so why mess with that? that's probably the biggest factor. 1 injury to Calais or Yannick would force Fowler to start so we'd still have to end up going with one of the other options if god forbid that happens. Also we've only seen limited action of him covering/playing in space; there's no guarantee he'd do well there full time. There's also a chance that he'd be unwilling to make the switch, as with his improved performance he may no longer feel the same way about how he was used and wanting to play standing up (although I doubt this).
Bottom Line: In OTA's before the draft they should try it out, if you can get a look into how he can handle it mentally and whether or not he has the athleticism for it you can then make an informed decision about the position heading into the draft as to how big a need/how early to address it. they have very little to lose trying it out, and until Blair Brown proves to be a better option I'd love to see them give him an opportunity there.
This was something I've been contemplating too.
Personally, I like the idea of mixing in a 5-2 defense on early downs, with Fowler and Ngakoue on the edges, Campbell, Jackson and Dareus in the middle and Telvin and Jack at LB. It certainly looks good on paper. I have no idea if they used that last season at all.
(03-19-2018, 02:04 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]Completely stupid. He was drafted 3rd overall as a defensive end if he can’t do that he is a bust and might as well trade him considering teams are in nickel 80% of the game. Yeah he would be considered another Gator failure.
Lawerence Taylor has a pretty good career at rushing the QB from the LB position. Just sayin
SAM is a thumper. Fowler is a pass rusher.
As far as LT goes... he was a rush ROLB in a 3-4. That's the equivalent of RE in a 4-3. Not the same position as SAM OLB in 4-3 (also ROLB but can swaps sides if the left side goes strong - S as in strong/S as in Sam.)
ROLBs in 3-4 are very different from those in 4-3. Ditto RE/LE. Not the same at all.
We spent the last 4 years complaining about Poz’s coverage and now some want to line Fowler up over the TE? I’ll pass on that.
He’s developing nicely right where he is. In fact, he’d probably get roughly the same amount of snaps at SLB that he does now.
8 sacks this season as a "backup". No need for a change.
I have big hopes with Dawuane Smoot next season.
Fowler could play standing up in certain situations, but he wouldn't be a good fit as SLB in are base line up.
We still need a real LB for are base line up. Either someone we have steps up or we acquire one.
Fowler as the SLB in the base defense, then slides down to DE in nickel and dime with Campbell moving inside and Dareus coming off the field?
Yeah, I like that.
I kinda like the idea of him moving back and forth between SLB and DE. Would mask a little of our defense too. But if he gets caught in coverage I could see that as a huge liability but Poz always was too so I'm not sure that it would be any different. At least Fowler is faster.
If anything, Fowler would be a WOLB, not a SOLB. You don't want that guy in coverage.
(03-20-2018, 08:08 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]If anything, Fowler would be a WOLB, not a SOLB. You don't want that guy in coverage.
I think you misunderstand how the designations work. Telvin Smith is a WOLB ... so you're saying that Telvin Smith who plays WOLB is never in coverage?
the SOLB lines up on the "strong side" or side with the TE, that doesnt mean he ends up covering him. if we're doing a zone concept fowler can drop to a mark or cover the flat, against less athletic opponents I'd even trust him to run with them. Against the Gronks of the world I'd put a safety on them like Church or Gipson ... just because he plays the spot doesn't mean we have to deploy him in the traditional fashion and cover the glorified receivers who play tight end.
Also being the SOLB you play closer to the line of scrimmage and are called upon to set the edge more; its a LB spot that plays more like a DLineman which would suit his strengths.
On last night's Path to the Draft, Daniel Jeremiah ranked the top 10 pass rushing draft prospects to come into the league over the past 5 or so years.
Myles Garrett and jadeveon Clowney ranked 1-2 on his list and represented the top tier.
The next tier featured four guys-Bosa, Mack, I can't remember the next guy, but then Fowler ranked 6th best.
He indicated the list was just a measure of them as prospects, not based upon their pro production.
(03-20-2018, 09:19 AM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 08:08 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]If anything, Fowler would be a WOLB, not a SOLB. You don't want that guy in coverage.
I think you misunderstand how the designations work. Telvin Smith is a WOLB ... so you're saying that Telvin Smith who plays WOLB is never in coverage?
the SOLB lines up on the "strong side" or side with the TE, that doesnt mean he ends up covering him. if we're doing a zone concept fowler can drop to a mark or cover the flat, against less athletic opponents I'd even trust him to run with them. Against the Gronks of the world I'd put a safety on them like Church or Gipson ... just because he plays the spot doesn't mean we have to deploy him in the traditional fashion and cover the glorified receivers who play tight end.
Also being the SOLB you play closer to the line of scrimmage and are called upon to set the edge more; its a LB spot that plays more like a DLineman which would suit his strengths.
I thought for sure Telvin played the SAM?
Keep Fowler where he’s at. He’s finally starting to come into his own. Don’t mess with that. Draft Josey Jewell in the 4th round. He’s a Poz clone and can be cross trained at all 3 LB positions for depth.
(03-20-2018, 04:21 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]Keep Fowler where he’s at. He’s finally starting to come into his own. Don’t mess with that. Draft Josey Jewell in the 4th round. He’s a Poz clone and can be cross trained at all 3 LB positions for depth.
Agree, Jewell would make a better SLB/MLB, which we need depth for.
Not a lot to choose from at SLB/MLB unless you're picking higher than we are. So, we'll need to wait and pick up value later.
(03-19-2018, 02:04 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]Completely stupid. He was drafted 3rd overall as a defensive end if he can’t do that he is a bust and might as well trade him considering teams are in nickel 80% of the game. Yeah he would be considered another Gator failure.
BUT
If we move him to a DPR position from SAM more than from DE, then we can call him a DPR backer and pay him as such, as opposed to paying him pass rushing DE money.
"Gator failure" tells me your college (Nole fan?) hatred is spewing out even though Fowler played very well last year.
Also, if he can play SAM and move to DE in nickel, I wouldn't call that a bust at all.
The new NFL is all about versatility. Nothing wrong with the idea.
But since you think it's completely stupid and quite a few others can get behind the idea... I'm going to venture and guess it's probably not completely stupid.
(03-20-2018, 10:58 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 09:19 AM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]I think you misunderstand how the designations work. Telvin Smith is a WOLB ... so you're saying that Telvin Smith who plays WOLB is never in coverage?
the SOLB lines up on the "strong side" or side with the TE, that doesnt mean he ends up covering him. if we're doing a zone concept fowler can drop to a mark or cover the flat, against less athletic opponents I'd even trust him to run with them. Against the Gronks of the world I'd put a safety on them like Church or Gipson ... just because he plays the spot doesn't mean we have to deploy him in the traditional fashion and cover the glorified receivers who play tight end.
Also being the SOLB you play closer to the line of scrimmage and are called upon to set the edge more; its a LB spot that plays more like a DLineman which would suit his strengths.
I thought for sure Telvin played the SAM?
Nah, Telvin is weakside. The "Will"
(03-20-2018, 08:08 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]If anything, Fowler would be a WOLB, not a SOLB. You don't want that guy in coverage.
Well... coverage tends to depend on what the offense does.
All LBs have coverage responsibilities on certain plays and defensive play calls.
It's how come Poz was always dogged for getting beat in coverage.
And Telvin too has been knocked for his lack of coverage ability at times. Telvin makes up for his coverage with speed and tackling. Poz was just too slow, once a TE or receiver crossed him and turned up field, he was toast.