(03-20-2018, 03:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 03:38 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nfl...q8/slide/1
This one should elicit a "Whoa!" out of Jaguars fans.
If we're gonna trade up for a QB, I hope to God it's not Allen. 
I'm curious to why you might say that.
I'm not sure he's not the best prospect of the crop.
Just great, trade up and give up a bunch of future #1 picks for a 56% college completion rate against inferior competition. Throwing windows are huge in college compared to the NFL, so expect that completion % to drop to 50%.
(03-20-2018, 05:14 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Just great, trade up and give up a bunch of future #1 picks for a 56% college completion rate against inferior competition. Throwing windows are huge in college compared to the NFL, so expect that completion % to drop to 50%.
You're simply trolling as usual, but for what it's worth... Allen has what you can't coach (elite arm,) and his shortcomings can be coached.
This could be the year like when all the draftniks fell in love with Goff, Wentz ended up head and shoulders better.
I see the guys at the top of this draft as vulnerable/questionable as Allen and don't hear anyone else talking about it. I just don't see any of them as something special, or having any tools/traits as rare as Allen's arm.
(03-20-2018, 05:27 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 05:14 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Just great, trade up and give up a bunch of future #1 picks for a 56% college completion rate against inferior competition. Throwing windows are huge in college compared to the NFL, so expect that completion % to drop to 50%.
You're simply trolling as usual, but for what it's worth... Allen has what you can't coach (elite arm,) and his shortcomings can be coached.
This could be the year like when all the draftniks fell in love with Goff, Wentz ended up head and shoulders better.
I see the guys at the top of this draft as vulnerable/questionable as Allen and don't hear anyone else talking about it. I just don't see any of them as something special, or having any tools/traits as rare as Allen's arm.
So, are you saying the Jags should just sign a bunch of 100m olympic gold track sprinters as WRs, put all 5 of them on the field and tell them to just run go routes while Allen heaves 80,90 yard bombs since you are saying that's his only strength.
(03-20-2018, 05:32 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 05:27 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]You're simply trolling as usual, but for what it's worth... Allen has what you can't coach (elite arm,) and his shortcomings can be coached.
This could be the year like when all the draftniks fell in love with Goff, Wentz ended up head and shoulders better.
I see the guys at the top of this draft as vulnerable/questionable as Allen and don't hear anyone else talking about it. I just don't see any of them as something special, or having any tools/traits as rare as Allen's arm.
So, are you saying the Jags should just sign a bunch of 100mm olympic gold track sprinters as WRs, put all 5 of them on the field and tell them to just run go routes while Allen heaves 80,90 yard bombs since you are saying that's his only strength.
That's what you're saying, Troll.
(03-20-2018, 05:33 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 05:32 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]So, are you saying the Jags should just sign a bunch of 100mm olympic gold track sprinters as WRs, put all 5 of them on the field and tell them to just run go routes while Allen heaves 80,90 yard bombs since you are saying that's his only strength.
That's what you're saying, Troll.
How's that trolling, I'm catering to his strength, his elite arm like you mentioned. At the combine, everyone was admiring his throwing distance and how he throws it far with ease. Absurd WR's speed to go along with his elite arm strength, isn't that the perfect combination.
I like the prospect of Allen sitting for a year and getting coached up. I have no idea where this mock has us taking him (or what we'd potentially give up to do so) but I think his upside is very rare.
I've said it in a half dozen threads now. Given the Jags current situation with Bortles, I like Allen if they go Qb early.
I like White if they take one later.
(03-20-2018, 04:53 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 03:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]If we're gonna trade up for a QB, I hope to God it's not Allen.
I'm curious to why you might say that.
I'm not sure he's not the best prospect of the crop.
Apart from having a strong arm and be tall what does he do well as a QB?
If he was 6'2 215 he'd be a late round pick.
Cutler got that elite arm talent....
wouldnt hate it if we picked Allen. The upside is crazy but would rather Rudolph
At what point do we include the mental side of the game and integrated technique into "upside"? More often than not physical specimen QBs like Allen never reach close to their upside because they lack the rest of the game.
I don't want them to do something like this. Allen may turn out to be very good, but it's too risky of a move. Why give up next year's 1st pick and likely more for Allen when at least 1 of the top q.b.'s will be available at 29. I expect Rudolph to be there.
(03-20-2018, 04:53 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 03:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]If we're gonna trade up for a QB, I hope to God it's not Allen.
I'm curious to why you might say that.
I'm not sure he's not the best prospect of the crop.
He has shortcomings that can't be coached, he's inaccurate and inconsistent. You can try and coach those things away, but in the past, QB's with the same issues continue having those issues in the pros. To me, accuracy and consistency are two of the three most important traits I look for in a QB. The other being the ability to read a defense and find the open receiver.
(03-20-2018, 07:41 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]At what point do we include the mental side of the game and integrated technique into "upside"? More often than not physical specimen QBs like Allen never reach close to their upside because they lack the rest of the game.
Well, the answer
should be "always."
I've not bothered to evaluate every QB in this draft class that way as I've only evaluated them from the perspective of replacing Bortles in the Marrone/Hackett system.
I think Allen would do well in it after a year to acclimate.
It's not like they are asking the world of Blake "on the mental side" and I think Allen would do what Blake does better than Blake. It's a simplified way of looking at it, but it's what I have time to do as far as arm-chair evaluating these QBs currently.
(03-20-2018, 08:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2018, 07:41 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]At what point do we include the mental side of the game and integrated technique into "upside"? More often than not physical specimen QBs like Allen never reach close to their upside because they lack the rest of the game.
Well, the answer should be "always."
I've not bothered to evaluate every QB in this draft class that way as I've only evaluated them from the perspective of replacing Bortles in the Marrone/Hackett system.
I think Allen would do well in it after a year to acclimate.
It's not like they are asking the world of Blake "on the mental side" and I think Allen would do what Blake does better than Blake. It's a simplified way of looking at it, but it's what I have time to do as far as arm-chair evaluating these QBs currently.
Even though our passing offense is one of the more simple ones to run for a QB, Allen is still a big projection there for me.
A lot has been made of Allen being a "pro style" QB due to his Wyoming offense under Bohl (Wentzs former coach). But really it's a simplified power scheme with minimal reads and he wasn't given much opportunity to change stuff up. He found it difficult to run effectively.
And that's not even taking into consideration how inaccurate he was. He was really inaccurate against awful teams in a bad division, struggled mightily against teams like Hawaii too.
If you told me Allen was a 4th5th round pick, I'd go yeah why not take a flier on those tools, particularly Vs the rest of the guys in the draft left. The traits are clear physically , the rest leaves a lot to be desired. He's basically Logan Thomas to me.
Christian Hackenburg 2.0. Stay away.
(03-20-2018, 06:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I like the prospect of Allen sitting for a year and getting coached up. I have no idea where this mock has us taking him (or what we'd potentially give up to do so) but I think his upside is very rare.
I've said it in a half dozen threads now. Given the Jags current situation with Bortles, I like Allen if they go Qb early.
I like White if they take one later.
With bortles new contract, Allen could even sit a second year and develop without it being a burden.
That would be a wild move but I wouldn't be mad at it. Allen has easily the highest ceiling out of any QB in the draft and the most arm talent. I think he's going to wind up being a good NFL qb.
With that being said, I know in this mock he's gone early, but baker Mayfield's style of play is better designed for hacketts offense.
I'd much rather see Mayfield zipping a pass to a receiver in the flats or a quick slant across the middle than Allen.
I got Josh Allen ranked as the best QB in the draft.