Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
(03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
First, I would not at all be opposed to that trade. I'd hate losing Fowler, but to get what imo, is a true franchise type QB, is a small price to pay. With that said, I'd probably go interior O-Line in round 2 and in round 3, I would evaluate CB, TE and DE, taking the BAP. Narrow that down in round 4 to the two categories that were left and which ever is left out of that group would compete with LB and WR for our 6th round selection and the two positions left over would be taken in round 7.
(03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
I'm gonna say Obo
Okoronkwo in the fourth, just because nothing would please me more than hearing the play by play guys butchering the pronunciation of "Ngakoue and Okoronkwo" in the same sentence every other third down.
.gif "Laughing")
(03-30-2018, 02:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
I'm gonna say Obo Okoronkwo in the fourth, just because nothing would please me more than hearing the play by play guys butchering the pronunciation of "Ngakoue and Okoronkwo" in the same sentence every other third down.
I'd be shocked if he lasted to the 4th round. I believe he gets taken in the late 2nd/early 3rd round.
TheO-LineMatters
(03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
First, I would not at all be opposed to that trade. I'd hate losing Fowler, but to get what imo, is a true franchise type QB, is a small price to pay. With that said, I'd probably go interior O-Line in round 2 and in round 3, I would evaluate CB, TE and DE, taking the BAP. Narrow that down in round 4 to the two categories that were left and which ever is left out of that group would compete with LB and WR for our 6th round selection and the two positions left over would be taken in round 7.[/quote]
So assuming the DE, TE, CB all had equal grades in round 3, what position would you take?
Would the need or premium position win out in your decision? How would the immediate nature of the need fit into your decision? In other words, if you assumed we were good at DE for another year without Fowler since we had Ngakoue and Campbell, as opposed to having an immediate need at TE, would that factor in?
If you favored the immediate need in round 3, how do you explain that decision in light of the trade for Rudolph, who presumably would not be considered an immediate impact player? Could it be construed that you don't think the Jaguars are true Super Bowl contenders?
(03-30-2018, 02:55 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 02:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm gonna say Obo Okoronkwo in the fourth, just because nothing would please me more than hearing the play by play guys butchering the pronunciation of "Ngakoue and Okoronkwo" in the same sentence every other third down.
I'd be shocked if he lasted to the 4th round. I believe he gets taken in the late 2nd/early 3rd round.
Yeah, I have no idea. I just went with the first projection I saw for him.
(03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
Hard pass. I am not sold on Mason Rudolph. I don't think he's worth moving up to get in all actuality. And it's too risky. This team was really close to playing in a Superbowl last year under just one year of Marrone's coaching staff. It's extremely rare that you see a rookie QB get that close to a Superbowl. A few exceptions here and there. But it's very, very rare.
And I think they should just keep going with Bortles until he shows he can't continue to build on what he's accomplished in 2017. And I still really like Fowler. He was good in limited action last year. He was honestly the only pass rusher that showed up against the Patriots as well. Campbell isn't a spring chicken. And I don't know if there's a DE in this class that equates to that 29th overall value that would be readily available to fill in for Fowler.
This team really doesn't have a ton of needs or holes right now as well. Maybe RG, RT and LB. That's about it. But I feel confident that with this current roster there's really no needs. There's no pressure for a rookie to come in and start right away. We would like to see that. But it's not one of those "Oh [BLEEP]...they better land X, Y & Z in this class or X, Y & Z will start falling apart on this side of the football".
I would rather see a trade DOWN. The only case I would like to see a trade UP is if a top flight prospect like Derwin James or Roquan Smith are still on the board to bolster this defense even further.
I wouldnt trade Fowler unless they have already made their mind up they aren't bringing him back. I like the potential of Rasheem Green if we were to take a pass rusher in the 2nd or 3rd
I'd pass, only bc we are in Win Now Mode. Bortles is either going to relish the moment and take advantage of this awesome defense, or he will wither and miss out on a golden opportunity.
We can't keep this defense together forever. Maybe o lyrics 2 or 3 more years.
My other concern with Rudolph is the fact that he's operated a great deal of his career out of the spread or gun formation. Virtually every highlight I've seen from him he's never under center. He's usually throwing a lot of little dink and dunk passes just like we've seen in the past or quick little screen passes to his receivers. I am just not impressed with this kid. I don't get the love and infatuation with him. I really don't.
He honestly reminds me of Bortles coming out of college. Bortles has the same exact body type and build. He's probably a much better QB mobility wise. But if you're looking at the accuracy column for them coming out of college. It's the same guy. In fact. Blake was more accurate coming out of UCF than Rudolph is coming out of OKST. So I don't see what the fuss is about. And it's a lateral move IMHO.
The only QB worth trading up for in this draft class is Baker Mayfield. But he has a ton of maturity concerns. But as far as actual QB play? He's the best one of this class. And it's not even close. If he was 6'5 with no arrest on his record he's going No. 1 overall.
(03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
Immediately. Round 2. A great secondary needs a great defensive line, and defensive lines come in waves, so I would think if we traded Fowler, even though he doesn't start, that would become our biggest need: another pass rusher.
(03-30-2018, 03:12 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
Hard pass. I am not sold on Mason Rudolph. I don't think he's worth moving up to get in all actuality. And it's too risky. This team was really close to playing in a Superbowl last year under just one year of Marrone's coaching staff. It's extremely rare that you see a rookie QB get that close to a Superbowl. A few exceptions here and there. But it's very, very rare.
And I think they should just keep going with Bortles until he shows he can't continue to build on what he's accomplished in 2017. And I still really like Fowler. He was good in limited action last year. He was honestly the only pass rusher that showed up against the Patriots as well. Campbell isn't a spring chicken. And I don't know if there's a DE in this class that equates to that 29th overall value that would be readily available to fill in for Fowler.
This team really doesn't have a ton of needs or holes right now as well. Maybe RG, RT and LB. That's about it. But I feel confident that with this current roster there's really no needs. There's no pressure for a rookie to come in and start right away. We would like to see that. But it's not one of those "Oh [BLEEP]...they better land X, Y & Z in this class or X, Y & Z will start falling apart on this side of the football".
I would rather see a trade DOWN. The only case I would like to see a trade UP is if a top flight prospect like Derwin James or Roquan Smith are still on the board to bolster this defense even further.
Don't focus so much on the player to be traded up for. Mason Rudolph was for the purposes of the discussion, but for all practical purposes, it could be any QB that fell, or any player not at DE for that matter.
(03-30-2018, 03:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]TheO-LineMatters
(03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
First, I would not at all be opposed to that trade. I'd hate losing Fowler, but to get what imo, is a true franchise type QB, is a small price to pay. With that said, I'd probably go interior O-Line in round 2 and in round 3, I would evaluate CB, TE and DE, taking the BAP. Narrow that down in round 4 to the two categories that were left and which ever is left out of that group would compete with LB and WR for our 6th round selection and the two positions left over would be taken in round 7.
Quote:So assuming the DE, TE, CB all had equal grades in round 3, what position would you take?
Would the need or premium position win out in your decision? How would the immediate nature of the need fit into your decision? In other words, if you assumed we were good at DE for another year without Fowler since we had Ngakoue and Campbell, as opposed to having an immediate need at TE, would that factor in?
If you favored the immediate need in round 3, how do you explain that decision in light of the trade for Rudolph, who presumably would not be considered an immediate impact player? Could it be construed that you don't think the Jaguars are true Super Bowl contenders?
If they had equal grades in round 3, I go CB. We need more depth at the position and to be honest, I'm not a believer in Hayden as a starting Nickle. I believe we have decent depth at TE and DE, so I can wait a round or two on them. Also, there is some very underrated pass rushers that can be had deep into the draft. IMO, the same can be said for the TE position. I just don't see that depth with the CB's.
Personally, I do believe Rudolph is an immediate impact player. I truly believe he would be starting for us, no later than 2019. I know I'm gonna catch all kinds of flack for this, but I don't see us as Superbowl contenders with Blake Bortles as our QB. He's just too limited with his confined set of abilities. In order to take that next step, we need a QB that we can trust to win us games with his arm and allow him to throw the ball down the field in specific situations. I did not see that trust last year between the coaching staff and Bortles.
(03-30-2018, 03:37 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 02:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the Jaguars were all in on a QB-Mason Rudolph, for instance, but did not think he would be there at 29.
They concoct a trade with the Packers to jump ahead of QB needy teams like Arizona and the Chargers to get him, sending Dante Fowler there along with the #29 to get the deal done.
Assuming that was all it took to make the swap for the purposes of this discussion, and assuming there would be a DE that met the value of the pick each time we were on the clock in subsequent rounds, at what point in the draft would you draft Fowler's replacement, given our other needs?
Assume in each round, the DE and the other needs have similar grades.
Immediately. Round 2. A great secondary needs a great defensive line, and defensive lines come in waves, so I would think if we traded Fowler, even though he doesn't start, that would become our biggest need: another pass rusher.
Interesting...so the presence of Ngakoue and Campbell doesn't mitigate the need for the 3rd DE?
If we lose Fowler, we would miss that extra piece to a great defense.
I would bet that Campbell will never have 14.5 sacks again. Fowler is primed for a 12 sack year, coming off that ACL he is all the way back.
Once Campbell retires then Fowler steps in as the starter.
(03-30-2018, 03:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 03:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]TheO-LineMatters
First, I would not at all be opposed to that trade. I'd hate losing Fowler, but to get what imo, is a true franchise type QB, is a small price to pay. With that said, I'd probably go interior O-Line in round 2 and in round 3, I would evaluate CB, TE and DE, taking the BAP. Narrow that down in round 4 to the two categories that were left and which ever is left out of that group would compete with LB and WR for our 6th round selection and the two positions left over would be taken in round 7.
So assuming the DE, TE, CB all had equal grades in round 3, what position would you take?
Would the need or premium position win out in your decision? How would the immediate nature of the need fit into your decision? In other words, if you assumed we were good at DE for another year without Fowler since we had Ngakoue and Campbell, as opposed to having an immediate need at TE, would that factor in?
If you favored the immediate need in round 3, how do you explain that decision in light of the trade for Rudolph, who presumably would not be considered an immediate impact player? Could it be construed that you don't think the Jaguars are true Super Bowl contenders?
If they had equal grades in round 3, I go CB. We need more depth at the position and to be honest, I'm not a believer in Hayden as a starting Nickle. I believe we have decent depth at TE and DE, so I can wait a round or two on them. Also, there is some very underrated pass rushers that can be had deep into the draft. IMO, the same can be said for the TE position. I just don't see that depth with the CB's.
Personally, I do believe Rudolph is an immediate impact player. I truly believe he would be starting for us, no later than 2019. I know I'm gonna catch all kinds of flack for this, but I don't see us as Superbowl contenders with Blake Bortles as our QB. He's just too limited with his confined set of abilities. In order to take that next step, we need a QB that we can trust to win us games with his arm and allow him to throw the ball down the field in specific situations. I did not see that trust last year between the coaching staff and Bortles.
[/quote]
So the depth at the positions in the draft class influences your decision to wait until later to get Fowler's replacement.
Who are some of the underrated pass rushers you are eyeing in the mid to late rounds?
(03-30-2018, 03:44 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]If we lose Fowler, we would miss that extra piece to a great defense.
I would bet that Campbell will never have 14.5 sacks again. Fowler is primed for a 12 sack year, coming off that ACL he is all the way back.
Once Campbell retires then Fowler steps in as the starter.
Though I do not think Fowler alone is the difference between us having a good and great defense, in general I agree with you on this post.
But assuming the team uses him to trade up with Green Bay, whether for a QB or not, at what point would you draft his replacement?
(03-30-2018, 03:45 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 03:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]So assuming the DE, TE, CB all had equal grades in round 3, what position would you take?
Would the need or premium position win out in your decision? How would the immediate nature of the need fit into your decision? In other words, if you assumed we were good at DE for another year without Fowler since we had Ngakoue and Campbell, as opposed to having an immediate need at TE, would that factor in?
If you favored the immediate need in round 3, how do you explain that decision in light of the trade for Rudolph, who presumably would not be considered an immediate impact player? Could it be construed that you don't think the Jaguars are true Super Bowl contenders?
If they had equal grades in round 3, I go CB. We need more depth at the position and to be honest, I'm not a believer in Hayden as a starting Nickle. I believe we have decent depth at TE and DE, so I can wait a round or two on them. Also, there is some very underrated pass rushers that can be had deep into the draft. IMO, the same can be said for the TE position. I just don't see that depth with the CB's.
Personally, I do believe Rudolph is an immediate impact player. I truly believe he would be starting for us, no later than 2019. I know I'm gonna catch all kinds of flack for this, but I don't see us as Superbowl contenders with Blake Bortles as our QB. He's just too limited with his confined set of abilities. In order to take that next step, we need a QB that we can trust to win us games with his arm and allow him to throw the ball down the field in specific situations. I did not see that trust last year between the coaching staff and Bortles.
Quote:So the depth at the positions in the draft class influences your decision to wait until later to get Fowler's replacement.
Who are some of the underrated pass rushers you are eyeing in the mid to late rounds?
Absolutely.
Marquis Haynes of Mississippi, Chad Thomas of Miami, James Hearns of Louisville, Ja'von Rolland-Jones of Arkansas State, Olasunkanmi Adeniyi of Toledo, Marcell Frazier of Missouri, Breeland Speaks of Mississippi, Joel Ostman of Central Michigan, Justin Lawler of SMU, Sione Teuhema of Southeast Louisiana, Trent Harris of Miami and Bunmi Rotimi of Old Dominion are all pass rushers I would consider at various points of the 3rd day of the draft.
Take Josh Sweat with our 2nd round and prosper (though he's rising so fast he might not make it that far). Double upgrades.
(03-30-2018, 03:44 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]If we lose Fowler, we would miss that extra piece to a great defense.
I would bet that Campbell will never have 14.5 sacks again. Fowler is primed for a 12 sack year, coming off that ACL he is all the way back.
Once Campbell retires then Fowler steps in as the starter.
I envision Smoot taking over for Campbell when the time actually does come for that to happen.
I really don't feel that losing Fowler would be that big of a deal. It's like losing Marqise Lee as a WR. We can do without either just fine.
(03-30-2018, 03:19 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd pass, only bc we are in Win Now Mode. Bortles is either going to relish the moment and take advantage of this awesome defense, or he will wither and miss out on a golden opportunity.
We can't keep this defense together forever. Maybe o lyrics 2 or 3 more years.
Which is exactly why we need a backup plan in place at the QB spot. If he withers we currently have no alternative. Kessler is just a clipboard holder with NFL experience that we basically got for free. We need someone with high upside who can lead us into the future if Bortles falters.