Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

4th round sounds like a good spot for a WR. But, it sure would be nice if we could skip the WR position altogether and find another undrafted stud. It just seems like we have a knack for it.

(04-03-2018, 02:59 PM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ]4th round sounds like a good spot for a WR. But,  it sure would be nice if we could skip the WR position altogether and find another undrafted stud. It just seems like we have a knack for it.

Yes, it just doesn't seem to be a great draft for WRs. I vote to let Moncrief, Westbrook, and Cole develop. Even if one views Moncrief as a one-year mercenary, he'd still be taking away reps. from a developmental receiver, which is not what ideal if he were drafted in the first few rounds.

Nice reply flgators.  He looks good in those highlights.  I like the way he high points the ball.

(04-02-2018, 02:14 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-02-2018, 02:11 PM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ]I would be fine with this. I honestly think for what we want to do on offense... we need to let Westbrook and Cole develop. I don't think we maximize the talent we have on our roster if we draft a 1st or 2nd round WR. Even the player we draft does well, it takes away from Cole and Westbrook's touches and development. I just think we have other pressing needs.

I agree. I'd wait till the third round at the absolute earliest, and I'd prefer later.

I believe a big bodied project type WR should be available late 3rd or 4th like Auden Tate.
Not polished enough to really challenge any of our guys spots (route running needs a lot of work from what I've read) in this first year but could still be a RZ target. And could develop in a season or two when choices must be made on Moncrief, Lee, and our younger guys Westbrook and Cole.

So... I think we all agree that a WR in the first 3 rounds would not be the most efficient pick.

(04-05-2018, 11:38 AM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ]So... I think we all agree that a WR in the first 3 rounds would not be the most efficient pick.

I think it all depends on who is available when the Jags pick.

If Chark, Sutton, Kirk or Moore are available in the 2nd round, you wouldn't want to take them?

(04-05-2018, 11:40 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-05-2018, 11:38 AM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ]So... I think we all agree that a WR in the first 3 rounds would not be the most efficient pick.

I think it all depends on who is available when the Jags pick.

If Chark, Sutton, Kirk or Moore are available in the 2nd round, you wouldn't want to take them?

If we are taking him (or her) over an equally talented OL, TE, I would be disappointed. If the WR is significantly better than what is available at those two positions, then I wouldn't complain.

(04-05-2018, 11:38 AM)brianmsbc Wrote: [ -> ]So... I think we all agree that a WR in the first 3 rounds would not be the most efficient pick.

I think Equanimeous St. Brown is actually real near the top of my 2nd round wish list if he's available. He's not my WR1 (DJ Moore is), but I think he's the WR that fits our team the best.

(04-02-2018, 12:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jags news is a bit slow until the Jags get closer to the draft, unveil uniforms, and host events at the stadium. 
With that in mind (and the divisive nature of the Jags current receiver line-up post free agency) I thought we could toss around a few ideas on the matter. 

There's a decent chance the Jags take a receiver in the draft that may earn snaps as a rookie. 
The following is my best guess at some good options they'll have and where these guys are most likely to line up. 
Opinions welcome. 



Of course - this is only exploring the options within this basic formation. But it gives you an idea of where I think they'll play. 

If I had to line them up in a 3WR set tomorrow, I'd put Moncreif at X, Lee in the slot, and Cole at Flanker/Z.  Westbrook could rotate in at Slot or Z at will. 

Hopefully if they draft a guy - he's got length and range enough to play the X in a rotation with Moncreif.

Westbrook and Lee are both flanker guys. Westbrook at OK was used outside and Lee has primarily been used outside with the Jags. There really is no slot guy on the team.

Westbrook and Mickens are both slot guys.

Steve Ishmael is perfect for ARob's role. Most of the these taller WRs run like a 4.65 which doesn't cut it in my book. I like Sutton and St. Brown because they can run something like a 4.45. Running a 4.5 flat is close enough to be comfortable with his speed and he's tall enough, so now it's about actually looking at him, and I do like what I see. He's awesome at high pointing the ball and just snagging it out of the air with his hands. I can see him developing just fine as Moncrief's backup this year. 

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I'm thinking we play Westbrook exclusively in the slot this year...

split-end: Moncrief, Ishmael
slot: Westbrook, Mickens
flanker: Lee, Cole

(04-09-2018, 08:39 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Westbrook and Mickens are both slot guys.

Steve Ishmael is perfect for ARob's role. Most of the these taller WRs run like a 4.65 which doesn't cut it in my book. I like Sutton and St. Brown because they can run something like a 4.45. Running a 4.5 flat is close enough to be comfortable with his speed and he's tall enough, so now it's about actually looking at him, and I do like what I see. He's awesome at high pointing the ball and just snagging it out of the air with his hands. I can see him developing just fine as Moncrief's backup this year. 

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I'm thinking we play Westbrook exclusively in the slot this year...

split-end: Moncrief, Ishmael
slot: Westbrook, Mickens
flanker: Lee, Cole

Westbrook is not a slot guy at all. Where do you get that feeling from? Because he is smaller? When I think slot I think of Fitzgerald, Landry, Baldwin, Tate, Theilen, Keenen Allen, Kupp, JuJu, and Cobb. Maybe lineup in the slot from time to time to run some deep routes, but exclusively? He should be used like how Desean Jackson has been used. Westbrook would be physically dominated in the slot if used "exclusively" there.

(04-09-2018, 07:04 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-02-2018, 12:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jags news is a bit slow until the Jags get closer to the draft, unveil uniforms, and host events at the stadium. 
With that in mind (and the divisive nature of the Jags current receiver line-up post free agency) I thought we could toss around a few ideas on the matter. 

There's a decent chance the Jags take a receiver in the draft that may earn snaps as a rookie. 
The following is my best guess at some good options they'll have and where these guys are most likely to line up. 
Opinions welcome. 

Of course - this is only exploring the options within this basic formation. But it gives you an idea of where I think they'll play. 

If I had to line them up in a 3WR set tomorrow, I'd put Moncreif at X, Lee in the slot, and Cole at Flanker/Z.  Westbrook could rotate in at Slot or Z at will. 

Hopefully if they draft a guy - he's got length and range enough to play the X in a rotation with Moncreif.

Westbrook and Lee are both flanker guys. Westbrook at OK was used outside and Lee has primarily been used outside with the Jags. There really is no slot guy on the team.

Cole made some nice plays form the slot last season and so did Westbrook. Sure Lee and Westbrook are better suited to the Z than the Y - but they can both do just fine playing from the slot extensively IMO.  Especially in Hackett's playbook where it seems 30% of the slot guy's routes are schemed open with clear-outs or rubs. 

What is it about Lee that makes you think he can't play the slot effectively? 
I don't think the Y receiver needs to have some unicorn-like skill set. Just be savvy enough not to take unnecessary hits, tough enough to take a few of them anyway, and shifty enough to get open and make a catch in a tight window. Of course the slot receiver's role can be tweaked to suit the player as well. Guys as varied as Welker, Colston, Boldin, Decker, Hines, Avant and Owens have all done well from the slot at times in their careers and they were clearly schemed in a number of different ways from that position.

Greene and Mickens are also still on the team and they are certainly considered "slot guys."

I am long on record as saying I think Marqise being used out of the slot like the Giants used Victor Cruz during his breakout years would be his best role.

(04-09-2018, 10:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-09-2018, 07:04 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Westbrook and Lee are both flanker guys. Westbrook at OK was used outside and Lee has primarily been used outside with the Jags. There really is no slot guy on the team.

Cole made some nice plays form the slot last season and so did Westbrook. Sure Lee and Westbrook are better suited to the Z than the Y - but they can both do just fine playing from the slot extensively IMO.  Especially in Hackett's playbook where it seems 30% of the slot guy's routes are schemed open with clear-outs or rubs. 

What is it about Lee that makes you think he can't play the slot effectively? 
I don't think the Y receiver needs to have some unicorn-like skill set. Just be savvy enough not to take unnecessary hits, tough enough to take a few of them anyway, and shifty enough to get open and make a catch in a tight window.  Of course the slot receiver's role can be tweaked to suit the player as well.  Guys as varied as Welker, Colston, Boldin, Decker, Hines, Avant and Owens have all done well from the slot at times in their careers and they were clearly schemed in a number of different ways from that position.  

Greene and Mickens are also still on the team and they are certainly considered "slot guys."

I didn't say Lee can't. Based off history the Jags don't use him there much at all. Cole seems like a fit for slot for sure, probably best on the team for it. Westbrook on the other hand... He might make a LB miss 9/10 times but he might break in half the one time he doesn't or has to block one. After watching Hurns basically be led into contact after wild balls thrown from Bortles game after game after game and constantly take unnecessary punishment... Westbrooks frame would scare me off using him with Bortles back there in the slot.

(04-09-2018, 11:32 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-09-2018, 10:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Cole made some nice plays form the slot last season and so did Westbrook. Sure Lee and Westbrook are better suited to the Z than the Y - but they can both do just fine playing from the slot extensively IMO.  Especially in Hackett's playbook where it seems 30% of the slot guy's routes are schemed open with clear-outs or rubs. 

What is it about Lee that makes you think he can't play the slot effectively? 
I don't think the Y receiver needs to have some unicorn-like skill set. Just be savvy enough not to take unnecessary hits, tough enough to take a few of them anyway, and shifty enough to get open and make a catch in a tight window.  Of course the slot receiver's role can be tweaked to suit the player as well.  Guys as varied as Welker, Colston, Boldin, Decker, Hines, Avant and Owens have all done well from the slot at times in their careers and they were clearly schemed in a number of different ways from that position.  

Greene and Mickens are also still on the team and they are certainly considered "slot guys."

I didn't say Lee can't. Based off history the Jags don't use him there much at all. Cole seems like a fit for slot for sure, probably best on the team for it. Westbrook on the other hand... He might make a LB miss 9/10 times but he might break in half the one time he doesn't or has to block one. After watching Hurns basically be led into contact after wild balls thrown from Bortles game after game after game and constantly take unnecessary punishment... Westbrooks frame would scare me off using him with Bortles back there in the slot.

This is why I pointed out the way Hackett used the slot guy last season. Likely in response to Hurns being led into big hits, he added some plays that had clear-outs or rubs built in to give the Y receiver room to make a catch and react before contact. (some of those plays with Lee running a shallow cross from the X or Z and Lewis running something short over the middle or to the flat accomplished this  -  as did a few of the plays run from the bunch formation)
 Of course it won't work every time, but it looks like he's got the plays ready to dial up for someone like Westbrook - should they need or want him in the slot. 

I remember they did this ^ in one of the steelers games with Westbrook in the slot and he got wide open deep running the seam but Blake never looked his way.

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(04-09-2018, 11:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I am long on record as saying I think Marqise being used out of the slot like the Giants used Victor Cruz during his breakout years would be his best role.

You are indeed. I was hesitant the first time you mentioned it, but it makes a lot of sense to me now. Especially looking at our current corps of receivers and watching how physical Lee has become over the past few years. 
He had that scrappy thing early on, but now he is actually effective with it beating a jam or blocking. 
He could probably learn to protect his body a bit more when he sees a hit coming, but that's my only gripe with him in the slot.

That, but I think it actually helps his athleticism play up. I don't think Marqise can stretch the field from the outside consistently. The Giants used Cruz vertically a ton and I think Marqise could be used like that too.

We saw how Colvin's weakness was when a slot receiver or TE in the slot could challenge him vertically. That's not abnormal for slot corners. We saw how Gipson got fooled on Martavis Bryant's 4th down touchdown in the playoffs. Stretching the field from the inside is just a good proposition, and I think Marqise could do that.

Moncrief and Cole outside, Lee inside. Dede rotating in at every spot.

You guys make Lee in the slot sound like a very good idea. As Upper said it might make it easier to get him downfield that way. Would give us 3 legit deep threats on the field.

(04-09-2018, 10:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-09-2018, 07:04 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Westbrook and Lee are both flanker guys. Westbrook at OK was used outside and Lee has primarily been used outside with the Jags. There really is no slot guy on the team.

Cole made some nice plays form the slot last season and so did Westbrook. Sure Lee and Westbrook are better suited to the Z than the Y - but they can both do just fine playing from the slot extensively IMO.  Especially in Hackett's playbook where it seems 30% of the slot guy's routes are schemed open with clear-outs or rubs. 

What is it about Lee that makes you think he can't play the slot effectively? 
I don't think the Y receiver needs to have some unicorn-like skill set. Just be savvy enough not to take unnecessary hits, tough enough to take a few of them anyway, and shifty enough to get open and make a catch in a tight window.  Of course the slot receiver's role can be tweaked to suit the player as well.  Guys as varied as Welker, Colston, Boldin, Decker, Hines, Avant and Owens have all done well from the slot at times in their careers and they were clearly schemed in a number of different ways from that position.  

Greene and Mickens are also still on the team and they are certainly considered "slot guys."

The Jaguars projected Dede to the slot from get go.  You explained how Marrone made it a point for the younger WRs to learn the outside spots first before even trying to learn the slot, and that's laregly why I believe we haven't seen him in there just yet. But I go back to when he was drafted to what the Jaguars were saying about him...
 

Quote:“Obviously it is not a position we need for, but we have a good receiving crew,” Caldwell said, adding that Westbrook can play either outside or in the slot. “We feel like this is a guy that can come in and contribute there. He has a lot of specialties where we can use him in different situations and then the punt return aspect and the special teams aspect of it.”

I couldn't find it, but there was another quote I'm thinking from Andy Dengler who talked all about their expectations for Dede to become their slot guy with ARob and Hurns playing outside. I don't see that expectation should suddenly change.