https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/09/nfl-dr...peter-king
According to the article....
-Goedert has not run the 40 yet
-Gil Brandt thinks there are maybe 17 or so legitimate first round players, then everyone is equal between 21-47.
-Dan Orlovsky, former Lions QB, has alarming critiques for anyone who likes Josh Allen
I've seen about 6 different evaluators I like say they have 17-21 graded first rounders.
Dan Orlovsky is spot on with his Allen takes. You aren't just taking a guy who has bad accuracy and a penchant for turnovers. You are taking a guy who struggles with the game from a mental standpoint , against poor opposition, and with a coach who was praised for his QB coaching and mentorship with Wentz. So many red flags.
Also agree on the depth of the class.
With him being so down on Allen, I wonder why he still has him ranked above Jackson and Rudolph.
Here's my experience looking Josh Allen...
So, immediately I see he's considered a top four QB although at the time he was squarely in fourth place. Since then, he's risen to possibly the first QB in the eyes of some draftniks with his elite arm strength, but it's always been about his arm strength. At any rate, I saw Allen as possibly falling to the middle of round one and thought maybe the Jaguars should trade up to get him. Afterall, we could probably get the 17th overall pick by using our 2nd round pick.
So, next, I had to do some film study. His highlights were ok with some impressive throws, but I have to look at the game tapes. I started with what looked to be his most impressive games by looking at the stats with the idea of seeing what his potential might be. It didn't take long for me to realize...
Josh Allen totally sucks.
It's not hard to see. I looked at more tapes and they're all the same. He doesn't have the "IT" factor you need. His throws are erratic as heck and he'll make bad decisions often running from ghosts like Gabbert. Come to think it, there's quite a bit about him that reminds me of Gabbert both the good and the bad almost like he's Blaine 2.0.
Lately, I've grown more fond of Lamar Jackson. I really like him, and he's clearly much, MUCH better than Josh Allen. I have him as the 4th QB in this draft.
On Mason Rudolph, I like his potential as a pocket passer but I still have some concerns with his game. When you take into account just how incredibly strong Josh Allen's arm is, you wonder if you can work with him, but at this point, I have to at least give the edge to Rudolph as the 5th QB with Josh Allen 6th.
After that, it drops to the next tier mainly because of lack of arm strength. These are guys who have arms comparable to some of the weaker armed starters in the league so they're still strong enough. The next tier includes Luke Falk, Lauletta, Mike White and Chase Litton, and that's currently my order with these guys.
Who cares how strong their arm is? I mean unless it is so weak that it prevents them from throwing the ball well, I don't think it matters. Do they draft NBA players based on how hard they throw the ball at the rim?
(04-09-2018, 03:19 PM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares how strong their arm is? I mean unless it is so weak that it prevents them from throwing the ball well, I don't think it matters. Do they draft NBA players based on how hard they throw the ball at the rim?
Guys like Falk and Lauletta can play, but on their deep throws, you can see the ball floating a bit. That, however, is my only concern with them. Their short-to-mid range games are impeccable, and they can throw deep. With that in mind, do you rank even them over the Allen and his Hercules arm?
(04-09-2018, 03:19 PM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares how strong their arm is? I mean unless it is so weak that it prevents them from throwing the ball well, I don't think it matters. Do they draft NBA players based on how hard they throw the ball at the rim?
That's a horrible analogy
(04-09-2018, 03:51 PM)Achilles Wrote: [ -> ] (04-09-2018, 03:19 PM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares how strong their arm is? I mean unless it is so weak that it prevents them from throwing the ball well, I don't think it matters. Do they draft NBA players based on how hard they throw the ball at the rim?
That's a horrible analogy
Maybe, but you get my point right? People are so in love with a guy's arm that they think they can fix all their other issues when their arm strength, at least to me, should be way down the line on what to look for in a prospect. Give me a guy that is accurate over short and medium distances with a slightly below average arm over a guy with a phenomenal arm that has major issues with accuracy (e.g. Allen)
(04-09-2018, 05:15 PM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ] (04-09-2018, 03:51 PM)Achilles Wrote: [ -> ]That's a horrible analogy
Maybe, but you get my point right? People are so in love with a guy's arm that they think they can fix all their other issues when their arm strength, at least to me, should be way down the line on what to look for in a prospect. Give me a guy that is accurate over short and medium distances with a slightly below average arm over a guy with a phenomenal arm that has major issues with accuracy (e.g. Allen)
Yes but you have to at least be able to throw the deep ball and give your receiver a shot. Lauletta looks really good almost everywhere until you start looking at the arc and air time on his deep balls.
Now if that's something that can be fixed or improved upon, then give me the dude in the 3rd Rd all day.
In terms of Allen, he is a project that may never come to fruition. I think he needs to sit for prob 2 seasons and learn slowly. He's boom or bust with arm talent like that. Guys like falk and lauletta don't have that x factor, so in terms of the draft, yeah you gotta take Allen over those guys just based on potential.
Are any of you guys actually still thinking that the Jags might draft a QB in round 1?
If so, I think you need to return to planet earth. It's not happening.
(04-10-2018, 06:36 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Are any of you guys actually still thinking that the Jags might draft a QB in round 1?
If so, I think you need to return to planet earth. It's not happening.
It would be hard for me to pass on Lamar Jackson.
(04-10-2018, 06:44 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 06:36 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Are any of you guys actually still thinking that the Jags might draft a QB in round 1?
If so, I think you need to return to planet earth. It's not happening.
It would be hard for me to pass on Lamar Jackson.
I don't like him at all. He's a spectacular college QB, a real playmaker, but at the NFL level, I've never heard of Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers referred to as a "playmaker." What I see of Jackson is a lot of spectacular runs. That doesn't last long in the NFL, especially if you are build like Lamar Jackson.
I went to the bowl game here in Jacksonville, and watched him closely, and he didn't impress me at all. He doesn't seem to throw accurately.
And besides, if we want to win now, we wouldn't spend a first round pick on a guy who will sit on the bench for the next year or two. It should be obvious by now, this front office is committed to Blake, and we are going to try to do this with Blake.
(04-10-2018, 06:58 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 06:44 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
It would be hard for me to pass on Lamar Jackson.
I don't like him at all. He's a spectacular college QB, a real playmaker, but at the NFL level, I've never heard of Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers referred to as a "playmaker." What I see of Jackson is a lot of spectacular runs. That doesn't last long in the NFL, especially if you are build like Lamar Jackson.
I went to the bowl game here in Jacksonville, and watched him closely, and he didn't impress me at all. He doesn't seem to throw accurately.
And besides, if we want to win now, we wouldn't spend a first round pick on a guy who will sit on the bench for the next year or two. It should be obvious by now, this front office is committed to Blake, and we are going to try to do this with Blake.
Take a look at when his mechanics are on point and you'll see that he usually throws a very accurate pass. I think that stuff is definitely able to be coached up. Combine that with him being a natural fit for a RPO and PA, I think he makes a lot of sense for us.
If he falls past Arizona and he's there in the 20s, I wouldn't mind moving up a little to grab him. I think given how many QBs there are towards the top, he may slip a bit.
(04-09-2018, 03:19 PM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares how strong their arm is? I mean unless it is so weak that it prevents them from throwing the ball well, I don't think it matters. Do they draft NBA players based on how hard they throw the ball at the rim?
Yup, Montana, Brady, Peyton Manning with his broken neck didn't have rocket arms. That why the Jaguars need to draft Lauletta with the 29th pick.
(04-10-2018, 10:31 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-09-2018, 03:19 PM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares how strong their arm is? I mean unless it is so weak that it prevents them from throwing the ball well, I don't think it matters. Do they draft NBA players based on how hard they throw the ball at the rim?
Yup, Montana, Brady, Peyton Manning with his broken neck didn't have rocket arms. That why the Jaguars need to draft Lauletta with the 29th pick.
Right...Manning didn't even have one of the strongest arms. He won because he had great mechanics and a crazy ability to read defenses.
Proper technique creates accuracy and power, not the ability to launch a football 80 yards off of your knees.
I value Dan Orlovsky's opinion of QBs about as much I do Chris Simms, or David Garrard.
A former Detroit QB has NOTHING to say about NFL, NFL play, and especially, NFL prospects. He wants Allen to fall to keep the Stafford theory in motion.
(04-10-2018, 10:58 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]I value Dan Orlovsky's opinion of QBs about as much I do Chris Simms, or David Garrard.
Why's that? Sizable gap between Orlovsky as a football analyst Vs Simms or Garrard for me.