(04-20-2018, 09:07 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180...-draft-hrs
An overriding theme of the article...patience.
Note the guys who chimed in on the article and the process.
Dungy...Mayock...Lynch.
It bears mentioning that Dungy and Mayock both echoed the same thing when it comes to the success that Caldwell is now realizing; patience. It's so rare in today's League, but it pays such massive dividends.
Caldwell recently was listed as the 14th best GM on some list on NFL.com or something...
I'd probably list him slightly higher but glad to see he's getting proper recognition....
People tend to forget this was his first GM role... And he really did something most teams don't do in a complete tear down and rebuild.
One fer Caldwell!
(04-20-2018, 09:47 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell recently was listed as the 14th best GM on some list on NFL.com or something...
I'd probably list him slightly higher but glad to see he's getting proper recognition....
People tend to forget this was his first GM role... And he really did something most teams don't do in a complete tear down and rebuild.
One fer Caldwell!
Exactly.
I would say most try to patch and go.
(04-20-2018, 10:14 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 09:47 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell recently was listed as the 14th best GM on some list on NFL.com or something...
I'd probably list him slightly higher but glad to see he's getting proper recognition....
People tend to forget this was his first GM role... And he really did something most teams don't do in a complete tear down and rebuild.
One fer Caldwell!
Exactly.
I would say most try to patch and go.
That's because most GMs try to sell the line of "retooling" rather than rebuilding. Most owners lack patience. Caldwell and Khan were pretty up front from the go about how it would be a long and painful rebuild.
We were bad for so long it was almost like "well what's another couple bad seasons if it ends with some really good teams"
A unique situation that likely just wouldn't work for most clubs.
(04-20-2018, 10:33 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 10:14 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly.
I would say most try to patch and go.
That's because most GMs try to sell the line of "retooling" rather than rebuilding. Most owners lack patience. Caldwell and Khan were pretty up front from the go about how it would be a long and painful rebuild.
We were bad for so long it was almost like "well what's another couple bad seasons if it ends with some really good teams"
A unique situation that likely just wouldn't work for most clubs.
Tell me about it.
Cleveland seems like they will be stuck for the forseeable future, even though their roster is developing nicely.
It is unlikely that Hue Jackson, 1-31 the last two years, will get another shot beyond this year if the team does not win. If they fire him, whatever QB they draft this year who was groomed in this offense may have to learn another offense. The impressive defensive nucleus they have assembled to fit a scheme may switch schemes again and lose their effectiveness.
It could prolong the process if the coaching change is too extreme.
(04-20-2018, 11:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 10:33 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]That's because most GMs try to sell the line of "retooling" rather than rebuilding. Most owners lack patience. Caldwell and Khan were pretty up front from the go about how it would be a long and painful rebuild.
We were bad for so long it was almost like "well what's another couple bad seasons if it ends with some really good teams"
A unique situation that likely just wouldn't work for most clubs.
Tell me about it.
Cleveland seems like they will be stuck for the forseeable future, even though their roster is developing nicely.
It is unlikely that Hue Jackson, 1-31 the last two years, will get another shot beyond this year if the team does not win. If they fire him, whatever QB they draft this year who was groomed in this offense may have to learn another offense. The impressive defensive nucleus they have assembled to fit a scheme may switch schemes again and lose their effectiveness.
It could prolong the process if the coaching change is too extreme.
The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
(04-20-2018, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Tell me about it.
Cleveland seems like they will be stuck for the forseeable future, even though their roster is developing nicely.
It is unlikely that Hue Jackson, 1-31 the last two years, will get another shot beyond this year if the team does not win. If they fire him, whatever QB they draft this year who was groomed in this offense may have to learn another offense. The impressive defensive nucleus they have assembled to fit a scheme may switch schemes again and lose their effectiveness.
It could prolong the process if the coaching change is too extreme.
The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
Exactly.
To me, they'd almost have to promote from within.
Williams or Haley would be the choices.
I'm just glad things worked out the way they did with us.
Not that I wanted a ton of losing, but in the end, we wound up with a talented roster, a coach in Marrone who knew what buttons to push, and a guy in TC who knew how to set an organizational tone conducive to winning.
(04-20-2018, 11:26 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
Exactly.
To me, they'd almost have to promote from within.
Williams or Haley would be the choices.
I'm just glad things worked out the way they did with us.
Not that I wanted a ton of losing, but in the end, we wound up with a talented roster, a coach in Marrone who knew what buttons to push, and a guy in TC who knew how to set an organizational tone conducive to winning.
Haley would be logical. HC experience. Successful offenses.
He'd be familiar with the QB room and with some of the current staff in case he wanted to keep much in tact the way Marrone did.
But what they really need is a Khan lol
(04-20-2018, 11:50 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:26 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly.
To me, they'd almost have to promote from within.
Williams or Haley would be the choices.
I'm just glad things worked out the way they did with us.
Not that I wanted a ton of losing, but in the end, we wound up with a talented roster, a coach in Marrone who knew what buttons to push, and a guy in TC who knew how to set an organizational tone conducive to winning.
Haley would be logical. HC experience. Successful offenses.
He'd be familiar with the QB room and with some of the current staff in case he wanted to keep much in tact the way Marrone did.
But what they really need is a Khan lol
At the very least, they need an owner who will stay out of the way and let the football people do their thing.
(04-20-2018, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Tell me about it.
Cleveland seems like they will be stuck for the forseeable future, even though their roster is developing nicely.
It is unlikely that Hue Jackson, 1-31 the last two years, will get another shot beyond this year if the team does not win. If they fire him, whatever QB they draft this year who was groomed in this offense may have to learn another offense. The impressive defensive nucleus they have assembled to fit a scheme may switch schemes again and lose their effectiveness.
It could prolong the process if the coaching change is too extreme.
The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
Until they draft Josh Allen and trade the #4 for a bunch of later picks...
They really should just take Saquon #1 and the remaining QB of Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield at #4. I think theres a great argument for taking their #1 choice QB at #1 and Chubb at #4 also
(04-20-2018, 12:17 PM)JNev Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
Until they draft Josh Allen and trade the #4 for a bunch of later picks...
They really should just take Saquon #1 and the remaining QB of Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield at #4. I think theres a great argument for taking their #1 choice QB at #1 and Chubb at #4 also
They have been trading back for years, and it's always bitten them in the butt.
In 2011 they traded back with the Falcons, who took Julio Jones.
A couple of years back, they traded away from the 2nd overall pick, allowing the Eagles to draft Carson Wentz.
Last year, they traded back, enabling Houston to get Watson and the Chiefs to get Mahomes.
They need to stay exactly where they are and get some superstar caliber players.
If they take a QB and Barkley, their offense could be set for a while, absent a quality LT.
If they took a QB and Chubb, their pass rush could take over games. All they'd need is a CB (and they should have some good ones still on the board by their 2nd round pick), and their defense would be a playoff caliber.
Last season alone was worth those painful and miserable years. Going to the office Monday morning is no longer a line of tortuous barbs about how much the Jags lost by the prior evening. I’m hoping that we aren’t a one year wonder and can continue the success.
(04-20-2018, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:10 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Tell me about it.
Cleveland seems like they will be stuck for the forseeable future, even though their roster is developing nicely.
It is unlikely that Hue Jackson, 1-31 the last two years, will get another shot beyond this year if the team does not win. If they fire him, whatever QB they draft this year who was groomed in this offense may have to learn another offense. The impressive defensive nucleus they have assembled to fit a scheme may switch schemes again and lose their effectiveness.
It could prolong the process if the coaching change is too extreme.
The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
I agree!! Under the right guidance, that team as it stands right now is 7-9 wins. Not including whatever treasures they end up with later this week.
(04-21-2018, 12:11 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2018, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The browns need to find their Marrone. The roster is darn near complete IMO.
I agree!! Under the right guidance, that team as it stands right now is 7-9 wins. Not including whatever treasures they end up with later this week.
Offensively, they are good at WR/TE, the interior three of the OL. They need a QB, a LT, and maybe RB.
Defensively, they are good now at DE, LB and S. Maybe they could use another DE (Chubb to be great at the position-and if Garrett stays healthy they might be great without him), maybe they could use a penetrating DT, and they need a couple of CBs.
At their draft positions, they could easily have, most of their holes fixed by 8:30 Friday night.
I personally grade Caldwell as a top 5 Gm. When you look at the players he’s drafted, the players he’s brought in in free agency and coaches and average it all out, it heavily is in his favor. Add in the fact that the 2012 roster was the worst roster I have ever seen assembled and he may go down as one of the better GMs ever if he can get a Super Bowl win or two.
That 2012 roster had no high end player. The best player was Poz and he was an above average player. Not elite at all. In 5 years he built one of the most talented rosters in the nfl and acquired high end players along the way.
Patience really is key and it can payoff bigly
(04-21-2018, 01:47 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]I personally grade Caldwell as a top 5 Gm. When you look at the players he’s drafted, the players he’s brought in in free agency and coaches and average it all out, it heavily is in his favor. Add in the fact that the 2012 roster was the worst roster I have ever seen assembled and he may go down as one of the better GMs ever if he can get a Super Bowl win or two.
That 2012 roster had no high end player. The best player was Poz and he was an above average player. Not elite at all. In 5 years he built one of the most talented rosters in the nfl and acquired high end players along the way.
Patience really is key and it can payoff bigly
One could argue rookie Justin Blackmon was a high end player that was just a waste of high end talent.
Greg Jones was still a beast too... I think...
Daryl Smith and Mathis were still around...
but yeah... your point stands lol
Roster was in terrible shape when DC took over.
But I would argue the 2013 roster was actually worse than 2012.
Because of the way Caldwell saw his rebuild. He said he was gonna start from scratch and that's what he did. And the 2013 draft was a terrible draft to start your first GM job lol
(04-25-2018, 03:57 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2018, 01:47 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]...
...
But I would argue the 2013 roster was actually worse than 2012.
Because of the way Caldwell saw his rebuild. He said he was gonna start from scratch and that's what he did. And the 2013 draft was a terrible draft to start your first GM job lol
This part here goes overlooked when a lot of people judge Caldwell I think. He started with a pretty awful roster and then had an almost historically bad draft class to try and build it up. I doubt even Bobby Beatherd could have done a better job in the first year than Caldwell did. It was like the League was making him do it with one hand tied behind his back.
(04-21-2018, 01:17 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2018, 12:11 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ]I agree!! Under the right guidance, that team as it stands right now is 7-9 wins. Not including whatever treasures they end up with later this week.
Offensively, they are good at WR/TE, the interior three of the OL. They need a QB, a LT, RT, and maybe RB.
Defensively, they are good now at DE, LB and S. Maybe they could use another DE (Chubb to be great at the position-and if Garrett stays healthy they might be great without him), maybe they could use a penetrating DT, and they need a couple of CBs.
At their draft positions, they could easily have, most of their holes fixed by 8:30 Friday night.
I truly like the rookie tight end from Miami they drafted last year and with the right quarterback he would thrive and show his true value as a former first-rounder