Another dead zone type of thread....or is it?
In 2017 Cam Robinso only allowed 2 sacks. 2!
Along with that, he only had 1 holding penalty. I have to be honest, I didn't know he only gave up 2 sacks all season. That is impressive.
I wonder why he didn't get some attention in the top 100?
He had 6 false starts, so I don't know how they view those. Just seems like if he played for Dallas or Philly he would be crowned already.
I'm going to try to do some research and see how 2 sacks allowed, ranks.
While looking, I saw where Linder has only given up 8 sacks in 4 seasons. He has 2 seasons where he didn't allow any. In 2017 Brandon Linder didn't allow any sacks. Wow
He had a good rookie year with plenty of rookie mistakes. He got beat by some savvy vets a number of times .
He's got a chance to earn a high ranking after 2018, but he ain't there yet. I love the way he plays though. I think he'll be in this conversation next offseason.
Ok, so now I'm looking all of our guys.
Parnell's stat line for Dallas goes...
2011 - no sacks dallas
2012 - 3 sacks dallas
2013 - no sacks dallas
2014 - no sacks dallas
2015 - 3.5 sacks Jags
2016 - 5 sacks Jags
2017 - 1 sack Jags
So Parnell allows just 3 sacks in 4 seasons with the Cowboys and comes to Jax and gives up 8 in his first 2 years. Hmmm. He is by far the most improved because he only gave up 1 sack in 2017. Pretty good.
AJ Cann
2015 - 3 sacks
2016 - 3 sacks
2017 - 3 sacks
2018 - 3 sacks?
Norwell
2014 - 1 sack
2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2 sacks
2017 - 1 sack
All Pro last year with Carolina.
So it looks like our offensive line is becoming one of the best. Don't forget we led the league in rushing in 2017, and that was without the addition of Norwell. We ran for about 141 yards a game. Dallas was 2nd with 135 yards per game.
So last year our offensive line gave up the following for sacks
Robinson - 2
Norwell - 1
Linder - 0
Cann - 3
Parnell - 1
7 sacks as a unit. That's pretty cool, I didn't realize they were that good.
(06-11-2018, 10:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He had a good rookie year with plenty of rookie mistakes. He got beat by some savvy vets a number of times .
He's got a chance to earn a high ranking after 2018, but he ain't there yet. I love the way he plays though. I think he'll be in this conversation next offseason.
But he only gave up 2 sacks. So he got beat twice. Unless your talking about run blocking?
So I Looked up Andrew Whitworth, since he is supposed to be a top LT. Also Prisco put him in his top 100. Whitworth gave up an astonishing 6 sacks!
(06-11-2018, 10:14 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-11-2018, 10:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He had a good rookie year with plenty of rookie mistakes. He got beat by some savvy vets a number of times .
He's got a chance to earn a high ranking after 2018, but he ain't there yet. I love the way he plays though. I think he'll be in this conversation next offseason.
But he only gave up 2 sacks. So he got beat twice. Unless your talking about run blocking?
So I Looked up Andrew Whitworth, since he is supposed to be a top LT. Also Prisco put him in his top 100. Whitworth gave up an astonishing 6 sacks!
He gave up two sacks. But he got beat many more times than that. He gave up pressures and he whiffed on some run blocks too.
Everytime an O-Lineman screws up or gets bested does not result in a sack, JF24. Sometimes it doesn't even affect the play.
Your assessment on Parnell is not taking into account the limited number of starts in Dallas BTW.
(06-11-2018, 10:14 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so now I'm looking all of our guys.
Parnell's stat line for Dallas goes...
2011 - no sacks dallas
2012 - 3 sacks dallas
2013 - no sacks dallas
2014 - no sacks dallas
2015 - 3.5 sacks Jags
2016 - 5 sacks Jags
2017 - 1 sack Jags
So Parnell allows just 3 sacks in 4 seasons with the Cowboys and comes to Jax and gives up 8 in his first 2 years. Hmmm. He is by far the most improved because he only gave up 1 sack in 2017. Pretty good.
AJ Cann
2015 - 3 sacks
2016 - 3 sacks
2017 - 3 sacks
2018 - 3 sacks?
Norwell
2014 - 1 sack
2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2 sacks
2017 - 1 sack
All Pro last year with Carolina.
So it looks like our offensive line is becoming one of the best. Don't forget we led the league in rushing in 2017, and that was without the addition of Norwell. We ran for about 141 yards a game. Dallas was 2nd with 135 yards per game.
So last year our offensive line gave up the following for sacks
Robinson - 2
Norwell - 1
Linder - 0
Cann - 3
Parnell - 1
7 sacks as a unit. That's pretty cool, I didn't realize they were that good.
(06-11-2018, 10:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He had a good rookie year with plenty of rookie mistakes. He got beat by some savvy vets a number of times .
He's got a chance to earn a high ranking after 2018, but he ain't there yet. I love the way he plays though. I think he'll be in this conversation next offseason.
But he only gave up 2 sacks. So he got beat twice. Unless your talking about run blocking?
So I Looked up Andrew Whitworth, since he is supposed to be a top LT. Also Prisco put him in his top 100. Whitworth gave up an astonishing 6 sacks!
Can you recheck your numbers on Norwell because I think they are inaccurate. I heard he not only didn't give up a sack but a not give up a pressure as well. I think the stats I'm referring to when it comes to him is from ProFootballTalk.
He's a good rookie, but I don't think the best LT in the league should get whipped in the fourth quarter by a forty year old James Harrison for what might have been the game deciding play of the AFC championship game.
Cam played out of his mind as a rookie. If this is where his starting point is I'm giddy to see how he develops.
All the concerns he had coming out have been addressed; Flaherty realllllyyyy got the most out of him, solved his balance issues, tendency to lean on edge blocks, got him to sync his feet with the rest of his set when oftentimes his feet would just stop as he was focusing on another area of his technique.
If this is how well he played with Omameh next to him last year, imagine the dividends that playing next to Norwell will yield!
Now that he knows the playbook, has been in meetings and an NFL weightroom a full year I think you'll see a huge jump in year 2. Gone are the days of JJ Watt feasting on the AFC South for 14 of his 22 sacks. Now that us and the tacks have solid bookends he'll only have the clots to pad his stats
I think I'd still take Tyron Smith, Trent Williams and Jason Peters over Cam but then again, he was just a rookie. OLine looking good so far.
I know there is often disagreement between fans and media/evaluators, but I don't think I've ever seen a gulf so big between what Jags fans and PFF/NFL1000 think of Cam Robinson. Neither of those grading sites had Robinson rated as a top 20 LT last year, and yet we consistently talk about him on here like he is already among the best at the position.
Not saying I think either is right or wrong, but it''s a weird, puzzling, yet also fascinating observation.
(06-12-2018, 06:10 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I know there is often disagreement between fans and media/evaluators, but I don't think I've ever seen a gulf so big between what Jags fans and PFF/NFL1000 think of Cam Robinson. Neither of those grading sites had Robinson rated as a top 20 LT last year, and yet we consistently talk about him on here like he is already among the best at the position.
Not saying I think either is right or wrong, but it''s a weird, puzzling, yet also fascinating observation.
Obviously Jag fans (and fans in general) have bias which plays a role into it.
But I also think part of it is that us Jag fans actually watch every game, every play (sometimes multiple times). I highly doubt the same can be said for most pundits/sites doing their rankings. I'd assume they only watch a handful of games (if that) and make their opinions.
I don't think Robinson is the best LT in the league and I wouldn't put him top 5. Probably wouldn't put him top 10 either (I'd have to think about it for awhile, but I don't really care enough to) simply because of the small sample size. He had some good play during the season, as well as some bad play. He had a fine rookie season overall and he definitely showed enough to be excited/hopeful for his future.
(06-12-2018, 06:10 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I know there is often disagreement between fans and media/evaluators, but I don't think I've ever seen a gulf so big between what Jags fans and PFF/NFL1000 think of Cam Robinson. Neither of those grading sites had Robinson rated as a top 20 LT last year, and yet we consistently talk about him on here like he is already among the best at the position.
Not saying I think either is right or wrong, but it''s a weird, puzzling, yet also fascinating observation.
PFF grades on o-linemen too frequently make little sense for my taste - and I haven't seen this consistent talk of Robinson being among the best you speak of around here.
I see one guy that is confused about the importance of the sacks-allowed stat, and a bunch of people who just think he did well for a rook and has great potential.
Other threads have been mostly the same. Plenty of Jags fans that are excited about the new kid's potential with a few of them overstating it.
I was gonna just post a no, but I see this topic has been well covered. Hes an exciting player for our future for sure.
Not confused of the importance my. Been watching since 1994. His numbers are among the top 10.
(06-11-2018, 10:14 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so now I'm looking all of our guys.
Parnell's stat line for Dallas goes...
2011 - no sacks dallas
2012 - 3 sacks dallas
2013 - no sacks dallas
2014 - no sacks dallas
2015 - 3.5 sacks Jags
2016 - 5 sacks Jags
2017 - 1 sack Jags
So Parnell allows just 3 sacks in 4 seasons with the Cowboys and comes to Jax and gives up 8 in his first 2 years. Hmmm. He is by far the most improved because he only gave up 1 sack in 2017. Pretty good.
AJ Cann
2015 - 3 sacks
2016 - 3 sacks
2017 - 3 sacks
2018 - 3 sacks?
Norwell
2014 - 1 sack
2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2 sacks
2017 - 1 sack
All Pro last year with Carolina.
So it looks like our offensive line is becoming one of the best. Don't forget we led the league in rushing in 2017, and that was without the addition of Norwell. We ran for about 141 yards a game. Dallas was 2nd with 135 yards per game.
So last year our offensive line gave up the following for sacks
Robinson - 2
Norwell - 1
Linder - 0
Cann - 3
Parnell - 1
7 sacks as a unit. That's pretty cool, I didn't realize they were that good.
(06-11-2018, 10:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He had a good rookie year with plenty of rookie mistakes. He got beat by some savvy vets a number of times .
He's got a chance to earn a high ranking after 2018, but he ain't there yet. I love the way he plays though. I think he'll be in this conversation next offseason.
But he only gave up 2 sacks. So he got beat twice. Unless your talking about run blocking?
So I Looked up Andrew Whitworth, since he is supposed to be a top LT. Also Prisco put him in his top 100. Whitworth gave up an astonishing 6 sacks!
I'm kinda with you on Cam... but not quite ready to crown him.
I'd say he was really good as a rookie LT and better than probably a lot of pundits and fans thought he'd be (as there was some talk of him moving inside, being a RT, etc)
On Parnell: He wasn't a full time starter in Dallas, iirc.
When counting "giving up sacks" there are a number of things that some person might look at and another might not.
Robinson is credited with giving up two sacks directly. But pressures lead to sacks for other guys and/or bad plays. I'm sure he had his fair share of pressures given up.
Also, Bortles isn't given enough credit, imo, for minimizing that sack total. He moves around and makes plays with his feet when we could have had 3-5 more sacks on the year.
(06-12-2018, 06:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2018, 06:10 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I know there is often disagreement between fans and media/evaluators, but I don't think I've ever seen a gulf so big between what Jags fans and PFF/NFL1000 think of Cam Robinson. Neither of those grading sites had Robinson rated as a top 20 LT last year, and yet we consistently talk about him on here like he is already among the best at the position.
Not saying I think either is right or wrong, but it''s a weird, puzzling, yet also fascinating observation.
PFF grades on o-linemen too frequently make little sense for my taste - and I haven't seen this consistent talk of Robinson being among the best you speak of around here.
I see one guy that is confused about the importance of the sacks-allowed stat, and a bunch of people who just think he did well for a rook and has great potential.
Other threads have been mostly the same. Plenty of Jags fans that are excited about the new kid's potential with a few of them overstating it.
Honestly I was super-high on Cam coming out. Actually at one point had him in our group of possible first round selections.
I think where he was drafted and how he performed he should be viewed as a very good pick and we as fans should be optimistic about his potential as a long-term fixture at LT.
I can see why rating sites wouldn't have him as high. Dude actually got worked in a couple games. Sure he didn't directly give up a sack a lot... but pressures are sometimes more important.
I also think the rating sites can be off base with the quantifying factors.... I've seen Rodgers have a helluva game only to be the 12th best QB of the week, or some grabbage.
Best LT in the game today? Nah... but honestly, what LT from Thomas, to Smith, to any of them have been "the best LT in the game" as a rookie?
I think he really could be top 3 LT as soon as next season, with improvement.
(06-11-2018, 10:14 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Norwell
2014 - 1 sack
2015 - 2 sacks
2016 - 2 sacks
2017 - 1 sack
All Pro last year with Carolina.
Those numbers may even be inflated (Cam holds on to ball) or deflated (Cam escapes potential sacks)
What I'm getting to is the fact that it is very difficult to compare based on sacks because the QB and play calling have a lot to do with the potential for sacks.
(06-13-2018, 10:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I was super-high on Cam coming out.
Wow .... I HAD NO FREAKING IDEA !!! More and more players are being more open about their lifestyle preferences. Hey, it's 2018 so more power to them !!
.
(06-12-2018, 12:58 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I think I'd still take Tyron Smith, Trent Williams and Jason Peters over Cam but then again, he was just a rookie. OLine looking good so far.
If, at this stage, you would only take 3 guys over him, I'd take that in a second, though I would also include Taylor Lewan and remove Jason Peters. I might also take Duane Brown and Nate Solder over him.
(06-13-2018, 10:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (06-12-2018, 06:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]PFF grades on o-linemen too frequently make little sense for my taste - and I haven't seen this consistent talk of Robinson being among the best you speak of around here.
I see one guy that is confused about the importance of the sacks-allowed stat, and a bunch of people who just think he did well for a rook and has great potential.
Other threads have been mostly the same. Plenty of Jags fans that are excited about the new kid's potential with a few of them overstating it.
Honestly I was super-high on Cam coming out. Actually at one point had him in our group of possible first round selections.
I think where he was drafted and how he performed he should be viewed as a very good pick and we as fans should be optimistic about his potential as a long-term fixture at LT.
I can see why rating sites wouldn't have him as high. Dude actually got worked in a couple games. Sure he didn't directly give up a sack a lot... but pressures are sometimes more important.
I also think the rating sites can be off base with the quantifying factors.... I've seen Rodgers have a helluva game only to be the 12th best QB of the week, or some grabbage.
Best LT in the game today? Nah... but honestly, what LT from Thomas, to Smith, to any of them have been "the best LT in the game" as a rookie?
I think he really could be top 3 LT as soon as next season, with improvement.
I seem to recall he had his worst games mid season going up against Melvin Ingram of the Bolts and Myles Garrett. IIRC, he had an ankle injury.
But I see quite a few analysts list LT as a huge weakness for us.
I shake my head at that.
He wasn't too bad. He did have his ups and downs against pretty stout defenses though. My only concern is his ability to stay healthy and whether or not he got stronger in the weight room this off season. He missed a game last year I think and he seemed to get dinged up here and there. As far as what we used to have over there at left tackle I am happy with him. I think he could ultimately anchor it down for the next six to eight years if he chooses to do so.