Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Welp.....

And it continues! But be prepared for the twitter economists to state it means nothing if we still have a deficit higher than the Obama years, blah, blah, blah.

The market is about to shoot up like Grady Jackson's cholesterol.

I guess Trump pulled a rabbit out of his hat because Obama said it couldn't be done......

Is no one concerned about the deficit anymore?
Is that something that only matters when a Democrat is in office?

(07-27-2018, 09:20 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]And it continues! But be prepared for the twitter economists to state it means nothing if we still have a deficit higher than the Obama years, blah, blah, blah.

(07-27-2018, 10:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Is no one concerned about the deficit anymore?
Is that something that only matters when a Democrat is in office?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2...3e44a83707

(07-27-2018, 10:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Is no one concerned about the deficit anymore?
Is that something that only matters when a Democrat is in office?

I can't speak for everyone but yes it does to me.  It is the single biggest reason I left the republican party.  They talked and talked and talked about fiscal responsibility but as soon as they had both houses and the presidency they turned into the democrats they complained about.

(07-27-2018, 10:51 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 10:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Is no one concerned about the deficit anymore?
Is that something that only matters when a Democrat is in office?

I can't speak for everyone but yes it does to me.  It is the single biggest reason I left the republican party.  They talked and talked and talked about fiscal responsibility but as soon as they had both houses and the presidency they turned into the democrats they complained about.

It’s a shame that this point of view has been taken so soon and along party lines. Not fair to compare deficit under Trump in such a relatively short period of time, in an effort to spark long term growth, to that of past decade plus of “head above water” policy that included more Democrat control than Republican. It will take a few years to truly judge/know whether Trumps policies sparked long term growth and a lower deficit. It pointing in the right diection so far.

(07-27-2018, 10:21 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 09:20 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]And it continues! But be prepared for the twitter economists to state it means nothing if we still have a deficit higher than the Obama years, blah, blah, blah.

(07-27-2018, 10:14 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Is no one concerned about the deficit anymore?
Is that something that only matters when a Democrat is in office?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2...3e44a83707

Dick Cheney said exactly this in 2002!
Can you find even one article where a conservative voice asserts that "deficits don't matter" while Democrats are in charge?
It seems to be an idea that they forget about rather quickly.

(07-27-2018, 11:23 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 10:51 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]I can't speak for everyone but yes it does to me.  It is the single biggest reason I left the republican party.  They talked and talked and talked about fiscal responsibility but as soon as they had both houses and the presidency they turned into the democrats they complained about.

It’s a shame that this point of view has been taken so soon and along party lines. Not fair to compare deficit under Trump in such a relatively short period of time, in an effort to spark long term growth, to that of past decade plus of “head above water” policy that included more Democrat control than Republican. It will take a few years to truly judge/know whether Trumps policies sparked long term growth and a lower deficit. It pointing in the right diection so far.

Easy there, I am referring to 1994 and the Contract with America.  I was all in and ecstatic once the republicans came into power.  They did a fantastic job of passing all 10? items on the contract, the supreme court overturning some not withstanding.  My issue was and is as soon as that was accomplished fiscal responsibility was thrown out the window.

(edit) Adding to that thought, I have seen no change in their actions since.

(07-27-2018, 11:35 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 11:23 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]It’s a shame that this point of view has been taken so soon and along party lines. Not fair to compare deficit under Trump in such a relatively short period of time, in an effort to spark long term growth, to that of past decade plus of “head above water” policy that included more Democrat control than Republican. It will take a few years to truly judge/know whether Trumps policies sparked long term growth and a lower deficit. It pointing in the right diection so far.

Easy there, I am referring to 1994 and the Contract with America.  I was all in and ecstatic once the republicans came into power.  They did a fantastic job of passing all 10? items on the contract, the supreme court overturning some not withstanding.  My issue was and is as soon as that was accomplished fiscal responsibility was thrown out the window.

(edit)  Adding to that thought, I have seen no change in their actions since.

I have no aggressive tone. Nothing to “ease” up on. Just stating it’s way early to judge on the whole if you are using it as a basis of switching from one party to another. Truly, the only fiscal cause on a politician mind is the next pay raise!

(07-27-2018, 11:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 10:21 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2...3e44a83707

Dick Cheney said exactly this in 2002!
Can you find even one article where a conservative voice asserts that "deficits don't matter" while Democrats are in charge?
It seems to be an idea that they forget about rather quickly.

I’m not seeing where anyone stated deficit didn’t matter. I think the issue is that it is being utilized by some as an economic measuring stick. It really is not a good indicator of anything other than short term spending. Our economy is not designed to be a balanced one and there are many other factors to consider for overall health.

(07-27-2018, 11:52 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 11:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Dick Cheney said exactly this in 2002!
Can you find even one article where a conservative voice asserts that "deficits don't matter" while Democrats are in charge?
It seems to be an idea that they forget about rather quickly.

I’m not seeing where anyone stated deficit didn’t matter. I think the issue is that it is being utilized by some as an economic measuring stick. It really is not a good indicator of anything other than short term spending. Our economy is not designed to be a balanced one and there are many other factors to consider for overall health.

I think what you're saying is that it really matters as to which party is in power as to how we should view the deficit. 

And pretty much everything else.

(07-27-2018, 09:13 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Welp.....

Welp? Seems that the joke is on you.

You and the other "small government conservatives" have shown your political beliefs can be bought. Not surprising, but you've been outed as a phony.

Where is the wailing about government picking winners and losers? About how bailouts are terrible policy? About welfare is bad, bad, bad?

But buying votes by giving welfare to farmers is now ok? Because they're white and voted for Donald?

Boy, it didn't take you long to flip.

(07-27-2018, 11:52 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 11:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Dick Cheney said exactly this in 2002!
Can you find even one article where a conservative voice asserts that "deficits don't matter" while Democrats are in charge?
It seems to be an idea that they forget about rather quickly.

I’m not seeing where anyone stated deficit didn’t matter. I think the issue is that it is being utilized by some as an economic measuring stick. It really is not a good indicator of anything other than short term spending. Our economy is not designed to be a balanced one and there are many other factors to consider for overall health.

It's the headline of the article Kane linked to:
"Ignore The Endless Talk Of Doom, Budget Deficits Really Don't Matter"

I'm not sure how much deficits matter.
I've thought about it a lot and it's a hard one for me to make sense of.
But I'm pretty good at remembering who said what and when.
From 2009 to 2017, there was a lot of talk about the deficit. A lot. It went up a lot due to the stimulus, which Obama said was necessary to alleviate the recession. Obama and his surrogates encouraged us to not look at the deficit at that time. His opponents brought it up every other sentence. The recession ended, whether the stimulus helped or not, and of course deficits went down. Suddenly Obama and his people wanted us to pay a lot of attention to that.
But the Obama years give a hint at a framework: deficit spending is a tool to alleviate recessions, it should go back down once the economy is healthy again.
However now we have Obama sized deficits in an economy that has really good indicators. And we have Obama's old opponents in Congress and on talk radio saying absolutely nothing about the deficits.
What changed?

Deficits don't matter when you control the world's reserve currency. They will matter a whole lot when the world is refusing U.S. dollars. Not only will we have to find something of real value to exchange for foreign goods, all the dollars previously held worldwide will return to America, causing massive inflation.

The stock market is not the economy, and all the markets are wildly distorted for lack of true price discovery. I predict a major economic crash in the next 2 years.

(07-27-2018, 01:29 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Deficits don't matter when you control the world's reserve currency.  They will matter a whole lot when the world is refusing U.S. dollars.  Not only will we have to find something of real value to exchange for foreign goods, all the dollars previously held worldwide will return to America, causing massive inflation.

The stock market is not the economy, and all the markets are wildly distorted for lack of true price discovery.  I predict a major economic crash in the next 2 years.

Why do you believe there will be a major crash?

(07-27-2018, 01:33 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2018, 01:29 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Deficits don't matter when you control the world's reserve currency.  They will matter a whole lot when the world is refusing U.S. dollars.  Not only will we have to find something of real value to exchange for foreign goods, all the dollars previously held worldwide will return to America, causing massive inflation.

The stock market is not the economy, and all the markets are wildly distorted for lack of true price discovery.  I predict a major economic crash in the next 2 years.

Why do you believe there will be a major crash?

Some countries are already moving away from the US Dollar.

The deficit is 100% due to spending. This is, was, and always will be the cause and the cure - unchecked spending and no proper budget. Last good, sane budgets Congress passed were between 1996-2000. After then, Democrats regained Congress and spending hasn't been responsibly managed since.

Until Congress puts down the credit card and stops printing money, nothing good will come of it. As long as those uneducated on the issues and gullible vote for Santa Claus and "free" handouts (and those serious about smart budgets are labeled as "wanting people to die") ...nothing will change.