(07-29-2018, 03:20 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Not comparing myself to a pro scout at all, but I played AN in high school and as a QB I can tell you that Bortles probably likes something different in each receiver. Cole is our burner, dude can fly. Lee is a gritty receiver that will catch those McCardell type routes across the middle. Westbrook is a guy that can emerge as a stud receiver with his quickness and his take off speed. If I'm Blake, I would be working on my timing and chemistry during the preseason. Moncrief has some talent but maybe their scheme didn't fit his skill set.
To me Westbrook is the best of the group. Cole is my deep guy, when he is on the line, you just have to respect his wheels. And Lee has become the volume leader as of now.
It's anybody's race and the preseason will be fun to see who wants it the most.
I'm dying for Westbrook to show us what he has.
I'm really not so sure that Cole is as fast as some here let on. I know he seemed to get behind defenses, but I think it's more his knack for route running than actual speed. Cole ran a 4.6 as his pro day where Moncrief, Westbrook and Chark all timed very fast like something near a 4.3. I have to think all three would beat Cole in a race. Heck, Marqise Lee even ran a 4.5. That said, I'm intrigued how Cole might handle lining up at split-end, although it does seem more suited for a true burner like Chark or Moncrief. A while back I proposed they try out Dede at split-end, but the jury appears to think he's too small to beat the jam consistently.
Any way you slice it, I envision Marqise typically starting at the #2WR or flanker spot, and then maybe cover the #1WR or split-spot with Moncrief or a committee. It's hard for me to really know what Cole's ideal spot, although I know the team was very high on Westbrook eventually being our primary slot WR back when they first drafted him.
(07-30-2018, 06:30 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-29-2018, 03:20 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Not comparing myself to a pro scout at all, but I played AN in high school and as a QB I can tell you that Bortles probably likes something different in each receiver. Cole is our burner, dude can fly. Lee is a gritty receiver that will catch those McCardell type routes across the middle. Westbrook is a guy that can emerge as a stud receiver with his quickness and his take off speed. If I'm Blake, I would be working on my timing and chemistry during the preseason. Moncrief has some talent but maybe their scheme didn't fit his skill set.
To me Westbrook is the best of the group. Cole is my deep guy, when he is on the line, you just have to respect his wheels. And Lee has become the volume leader as of now.
It's anybody's race and the preseason will be fun to see who wants it the most.
I'm dying for Westbrook to show us what he has.
I'm really not so sure that Cole is as fast as some here let on. I know he seemed to get behind defenses, but I think it's more his knack for route running than actual speed. Cole ran a 4.6 as his pro day where Moncrief, Westbrook and Chark all timed very fast like something near a 4.3. I have to think all three would beat Cole in a race. Heck, Marqise Lee even ran a 4.5. That said, I'm intrigued how Cole might handle lining up at split-end, although it does seem more suited for a true burner like Chark or Moncrief. A while back I proposed they try out Dede at split-end, but the jury appears to think he's too small to beat the jam consistently.
Any way you slice it, I envision Marqise typically starting at the #2WR or flanker spot, and then maybe cover the #1WR or split-spot with Moncrief or a committee. It's hard for me to really know what Cole's ideal spot, although I know the team was very high on Westbrook eventually being our primary slot WR back when they first drafted him.
Those times are without pads. Corey Grant ran a 4.2 and Fournette ran a 4.5 but Fournette was the fastest player in the league last year with the ball in his hands. Some players aren't as fast with the pads on and some take their speed to another level in a game. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 but not many corners could catch Rice with the ball in his hands
I agree. There's 40 timed speed, and there's game time speed. Cole plays much faster than his pro day time.
(On a side note, this auto correct is annoying, I didn't play AN in high school, tried to say QB)
I expect Cole to put up big numbers this season. He's the real deal in my book. I think he and Moncrief will end up with the big stat lines for this receiving corps in 2018.
I hope Westbrook wins the PR job. I think he's the best returner on the team.
My final wish for this group is that Lee gets some work from the slot position as I feel he is well suited to produce there. It will require a show of physicality from a few other guys to happen as they really like Lee's ability to run block or beat the press from the X or Z positions.
The thing that stands out about Cole's 2017 season was that he just looked hungry. As Caesar once said of Cassius "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous."
I like dangerous men on the squad, especially hungry ones. Hungry men grab and take and fight for whatever is around them.
(07-30-2018, 09:27 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]The thing that stands out about Cole's 2017 season was that he just looked hungry. As Caesar once said of Cassius "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous."
I like dangerous men on the squad, especially hungry ones. Hungry men grab and take and fight for whatever is around them.
I'm laughing bro. Not at you, I promise.
It's weird, but I am in agreement with the poster who indicated he isn't worried about WR too much, and tends to see the guys as interchangeable.
There may not be a star in the bunch, but I agree it is a deeper and more talented group overall, and I think instead of one having a true breakout year, I think we could see three or four guys showing considerable improvement.
I've also given some thought to Lee.
When he was drafted, he was touted as a guy who could stretch the field, but he seems to have evolved into more of a possession receiver. I'm wondering how that happened.
Do you guys think somehow he lost some speed, or that his speed might somehow have been overrated initially?
I'm thinking the evolution was more borne of necessity more than anything.
Without Robinson and Hurns in the lineup for much of the season, and without a decent threat at TE, Bortles needed a reliable chain mover. He needed an experienced guy..a guy who knew coverages and knew the offense,. Lee seems the obvious fit under those circumstances. Now that guys like Cole and Westbrook are experienced and know the offense, I wonder if they will use him more on vertical routes, or if he will remain that possession receiver.
(07-30-2018, 12:26 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]It's weird, but I am in agreement with the poster who indicated he isn't worried about WR too much, and tends to see the guys as interchangeable.
There may not be a star in the bunch, but I agree it is a deeper and more talented group overall, and I think instead of one having a true breakout year, I think we could see three or four guys showing considerable improvement.
I've also given some thought to Lee.
When he was drafted, he was touted as a guy who could stretch the field, but he seems to have evolved into more of a possession receiver. I'm wondering how that happened.
Do you guys think somehow he lost some speed, or that his speed might somehow have been overrated initially?
I'm thinking the evolution was more borne of necessity more than anything.
Without Robinson and Hurns in the lineup for much of the season, and without a decent threat at TE, Bortles needed a reliable chain mover. He needed an experienced guy..a guy who knew coverages and knew the offense,. Lee seems the obvious fit under those circumstances. Now that guys like Cole and Westbrook are experienced and know the offense, I wonder if they will use him more on vertical routes, or if he will remain that possession receiver.
Lee put on weight and suffered multiple injuries and his role evolved accordingly. The staff outspokenly values his physicality to match up against the tougher press corners and as a role player in their run-blocking schemes.
He's still fast as evidenced a few times on kick returns and on a few of those intermediate in-routes. But he is indeed more of a possession guy in this system, especially with guys like Moncrief, Cole, Westbrook and Chark all contributing top notch speed to the position group.
(07-30-2018, 08:04 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018, 06:30 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm really not so sure that Cole is as fast as some here let on. I know he seemed to get behind defenses, but I think it's more his knack for route running than actual speed. Cole ran a 4.6 as his pro day where Moncrief, Westbrook and Chark all timed very fast like something near a 4.3. I have to think all three would beat Cole in a race. Heck, Marqise Lee even ran a 4.5. That said, I'm intrigued how Cole might handle lining up at split-end, although it does seem more suited for a true burner like Chark or Moncrief. A while back I proposed they try out Dede at split-end, but the jury appears to think he's too small to beat the jam consistently.
Any way you slice it, I envision Marqise typically starting at the #2WR or flanker spot, and then maybe cover the #1WR or split-spot with Moncrief or a committee. It's hard for me to really know what Cole's ideal spot, although I know the team was very high on Westbrook eventually being our primary slot WR back when they first drafted him.
Those times are without pads. Corey Grant ran a 4.2 and Fournette ran a 4.5 but Fournette was the fastest player in the league last year with the ball in his hands. Some players aren't as fast with the pads on and some take their speed to another level in a game. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 but not many corners could catch Rice with the ball in his hands
I hear you, but at the same time, I'm still betting that at least Chark and Westbrook would beat Cole in a race in cleats. I'm not as sure about Moncrief only because he's turning 25 next week and starting to get up there in years. Chark is so fast he might beat Corey Grant, and no, Fournette is not faster than Grant with the ball in their hands despite what any stats might suggest.
As for Lee, I feel his raw speed was overrated out of college. We've seen a few flashes, but that's been it.
(07-30-2018, 11:07 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018, 08:04 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Those times are without pads. Corey Grant ran a 4.2 and Fournette ran a 4.5 but Fournette was the fastest player in the league last year with the ball in his hands. Some players aren't as fast with the pads on and some take their speed to another level in a game. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 but not many corners could catch Rice with the ball in his hands
I hear you, but at the same time, I'm still betting that at least Chark and Westbrook would beat Cole in a race in cleats. I'm not as sure about Moncrief only because he's turning 25 next week and starting to get up there in years. Chark is so fast he might beat Corey Grant, and no, Fournette is not faster than Grant with the ball in their hands despite what any stats might suggest.
As for Lee, I feel his raw speed was overrated out of college. We've seen a few flashes, but that's been it.
Not to get too far off subject, but I was actually looking through some free agency news and noticed Corey grant is an UFA at the end of this season. I certainly hope we plan of extending him. The guy is a big play "machine."
(07-30-2018, 11:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018, 11:07 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I hear you, but at the same time, I'm still betting that at least Chark and Westbrook would beat Cole in a race in cleats. I'm not as sure about Moncrief only because he's turning 25 next week and starting to get up there in years. Chark is so fast he might beat Corey Grant, and no, Fournette is not faster than Grant with the ball in their hands despite what any stats might suggest.
As for Lee, I feel his raw speed was overrated out of college. We've seen a few flashes, but that's been it.
Not to get too far off subject, but I was actually looking through some free agency news and noticed Corey grant is an UFA at the end of this season. I certainly hope we plan of extending him. The guy is a big play "machine."
His agent might advise him to use this as a contract year and to make the most of it. If he were to extend now he'd have to do so for backup money.
(07-30-2018, 11:19 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018, 11:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Not to get too far off subject, but I was actually looking through some free agency news and noticed Corey grant is an UFA at the end of this season. I certainly hope we plan of extending him. The guy is a big play "machine."
His agent might advise him to use this as a contract year and to make the most of it. If he were to extend now he'd have to do so for backup money.
That's what I'm afraid of. IMO, he's our best "big play" weapon. Losing him would be devastating.
(07-30-2018, 11:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018, 11:19 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]His agent might advise him to use this as a contract year and to make the most of it. If he were to extend now he'd have to do so for backup money.
That's what I'm afraid of. IMO, he's our best "big play" weapon. Losing him would be devastating.
Possibly complicating the matter is that TJ Yeldon is set to hit free agency after this season as well.
(07-31-2018, 12:13 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-30-2018, 11:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]That's what I'm afraid of. IMO, he's our best "big play" weapon. Losing him would be devastating.
Possibly complicating the matter is that TJ Yeldon is set to hit free agency after this season as well.
Yeldon is easily replaceable, but Grant's speed and elusiveness is extremely rare and so much harder to replace. I really hope they incorporate him in the offensive scheme more this season. He's a home run threat, especially on those screen passes.
(07-30-2018, 11:07 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I hear you, but at the same time, I'm still betting that at least Chark and Westbrook would beat Cole in a race in cleats. I'm not as sure about Moncrief only because he's turning 25 next week and starting to get up there in years. Chark is so fast he might beat Corey Grant, and no, Fournette is not faster than Grant with the ball in their hands despite what any stats might suggest.
As for Lee, I feel his raw speed was overrated out of college. We've seen a few flashes, but that's been it.
Fournette may be faster eventually if you give him a relatively straight line untouched 90 yards to get all that mass moving downhill, but for the other 99% of football situations yes Grant is definitely faster.
Yeldon is a dime-a-dozen player in the NFL. Not saying it's bad but Grant gives the offense a different dynamic.