Does it appear the coaching staff is working with Leonard Fournette to eliminate the spin move he uses?
To me the spin move wastes time and likely adds to Fournette's chronic ankle situation.
With his size and SPEED, he has the ability to become a much more twitchy running back capable of utilizing cross-over skills similar to basketball players. Leonard can be a more effective back by simply developing a plant and go routine. Using a spin move requires Leonard to turn his back on the defense. In contrast, one plant coupled with a change of direction is more impressive and will likely add (at least) two to three yards per carry. At best defenders will deliver a glancing blow that Leonard will be able to power through.
When you consider how many carries Leonard can make that extra yardage will pile up. Plus, maintaining his field vision makes longer runs very likely.
Don't want Fournette to become a dancer. Just progress beyond relying upon a spin move. All the great backs accumulated more yardage with dekes, shakes, or jukes than by the spin move.
I haven't been to a practice yet, but hope to attend on Thursday.
Regardless, I feel confident that the Jags offensive staff is not blind to the fact that LF attempted that spin too often and with frequent ineffectiveness last season. I'm sure it's been addressed.
For anyone going to camp this week or have been to camp, I was wondering if they've been lining up Will Richardson strictly at OT or if he is being given the shot to win the RG position?
The spin move in general isn't a problem, there were many times it was perfect. The problem was his reliance on it as his first go-to move. I'm positive it's been addressed, and would also be a natural part of his progression to develop new techniques
Just because he is big and fast doesnt mean he can necessarily translate that into being "twitchy". I think that is a natural gift some people have and others dont. Its fairly common for bigger players to not be able to do that. Which is why someone like Fred Taylor is so rare. Fournette just doesnt seem like one of those make you miss guys. If there isnt a hole he should just get low, push the pile, and always try to fall forward.
I have been to a training camp practice and have followed on twitter.
There would be no way to tell if the coaches were telling him to ditch the spin move, unless the RBs were working directly in front of you and were yelling the instructions.
Personally I disagree with your assessment that his spin move is a waste. I can recall a few instances where it has gained him extra yards.
Allen Lazard doing anything?
(08-01-2018, 08:36 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I have been to a training camp practice and have followed on twitter.
There would be no way to tell if the coaches were telling him to ditch the spin move, unless the RBs were working directly in front of you and were yelling the instructions.
Personally I disagree with your assessment that his spin move is a waste. I can recall a few instances where it has gained him extra yards.
I don't recall him using it all that much either.
ASJ is the clear #1 TE. My question for TC observers is who is standing out as TE#2? Is Niles Paul getting action at TE? I know he is a special teams monster, but I am curious as to how much reps he is getting.
(08-01-2018, 11:44 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]ASJ is the clear #1 TE. My question for TC observers is who is standing out as TE#2? Is Niles Paul getting action at TE? I know he is a special teams monster, but I am curious as to how much reps he is getting.
Niles Paul is riding a stationary bike on the sideline.
(08-01-2018, 08:02 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Just because he is big and fast doesnt mean he can necessarily translate that into being "twitchy". I think that is a natural gift some people have and others dont. Its fairly common for bigger players to not be able to do that. Which is why someone like Fred Taylor is so rare. Fournette just doesnt seem like one of those make you miss guys. If there isnt a hole he should just get low, push the pile, and always try to fall forward.
My assessment is Leonard can absolutely become a twitchy guy. This is predicated upon his lavish SPEED and COD. It's 100% normal for us to expect Leonard will progress in his development and not simply become exposed and sink like a rock in five years.
Yes, with a lot more training and practical game day application, Leonard will buy in to what he's being instructed to do. With this confidence in his athleticism Fournette can generate elusive skills similar to Fred Taylor's "shake", et al.
In fact, Leonard MUST if he is to achieve ELITE status. I know he can.
I want to see the spin move ditched as it very likely relates to chronic ankle issues. This is based upon Leonard making the spin move in one of the playoff games then having to tap out due to a lower leg problem. My DVR got erased so I can't specify which game it was. It would be interesting for the Jaguars to examine the conditions under which Leonard has had to miss football relating to foot or ankle issue(s). My hunch is during or a play or two after he's made a spin move.
This is not a negative post at all. Just hoping to see if anybody at practices can detect the Jaguars staff is coaching him out of that spin move.
This is a non issue. If Fournette feels like he needs to use a spin move, then let him. I can remember 1 play in week 1 last season against Houston where that spin move gained us a first down.
A big man that can spin is rare. Jerome Bettis had a decent spin move much like Fournette.
If my coach told me to ditch my spin move, I would take off my cleats and tell him to find a way to rush for 1,000 yards and score 8 touchdowns in 13 games. And he wouldn't be able to.
His spin move is not slowing him down, and really that's not the point. The point is to find those extra yards and if a spin move is needed then use it.
He has a "cross over " too. It's not a Barry Sanders juke, but it's effective enough.
(08-01-2018, 02:41 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]This is a non issue. If Fournette feels like he needs to use a spin move, then let him. I can remember 1 play in week 1 last season against Houston where that spin move gained us a first down.
A big man that can spin is rare. Jerome Bettis had a decent spin move much like Fournette.
If my coach told me to ditch my spin move, I would take off my cleats and tell him to find a way to rush for 1,000 yards and score 8 touchdowns in 13 games. And he wouldn't be able to.
His spin move is not slowing him down, and really that's not the point. The point is to find those extra yards and if a spin move is needed then use it.
He has a "cross over " too. It's not a Barry Sanders juke, but it's effective enough.
The issue I take with it was that as the season wore on last year he began throwing that spin out there as a last ditch effort after being stopped or stood-up - and it very often resulted in no additional yardage. But it did put him in a more compromising position for potential injury. When playing on a bad ankle to begin with - I deem this as an unwise risk.
Fournette's second year should be fun to watch. He'll ideally be healthier and have a stronger supporting cast.
I am in that camp that sees him as "not a twitchy guy" but instead a serious homerun threat when given the opportunity to make one cut and go. I think he'll get more of those opportunities this year.
(08-01-2018, 02:41 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]If my coach told me to ditch my spin move...
I don' t think we want him to ditch it, but maybe just be wiser knowing when to use it.
I say let the player do what's natural to him. They tried to change Barry Sanders' running style and it was a big joke. It's part of what is fun about watching the game... with Fournette you get a little bit of everything like with Adrian Peterson. I just hope he doesn't sit out every other game like last year.
(08-01-2018, 02:41 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]This is a non issue. If Fournette feels like he needs to use a spin move, then let him. I can remember 1 play in week 1 last season against Houston where that spin move gained us a first down.
A big man that can spin is rare. Jerome Bettis had a decent spin move much like Fournette.
If my coach told me to ditch my spin move, I would take off my cleats and tell him to find a way to rush for 1,000 yards and score 8 touchdowns in 13 games. And he wouldn't be able to.
His spin move is not slowing him down, and really that's not the point. The point is to find those extra yards and if a spin move is needed then use it.
He has a "cross over " too. It's not a Barry Sanders juke, but it's effective enough.
A big durable guy missed three games. There's so much more than grasping at some statistical milestone involved with this issue. Coaches want a player who will do what they tell him to do. As a matter of discipline, if asked to improve his response to confrontation with a select defender we can expect Leonard to comply as best as he can.
My assessment is with the weight of two players (himself and would-be tackler) upon Leonard, unusual methods of response such as a spin move that generates excessive strain which greatly impacts his feet and ankles might need to be corrected in order to preserve Fournette by keeping him healthy at all times.
If it is the spin move causing the eruption of chronic ankle injury, get rid of it. I think we all agree having Leonard for 16 regular season games is much better than allowing him to risk a more permanent foot/ankle setback beyond missing multiple football contests.
I hope a change is detectable as it will signal a quantum leap in Leonard's development beyond potential.
(08-01-2018, 09:36 PM)JaguarJosh05 Wrote: [ -> ]I say let the player do what's natural to him. They tried to change Barry Sanders' running style and it was a big joke. It's part of what is fun about watching the game... with Fournette you get a little bit of everything like with Adrian Peterson. I just hope he doesn't sit out every other game like last year.
Fournette has virtually zero agility compared to Sanders and about half of the agility of Peterson. That's why he doesn't need to overuse the spin move. It's going to be a very low percentage return of investment for him compared to those guys.
(08-01-2018, 09:36 PM)JaguarJosh05 Wrote: [ -> ]I say let the player do what's natural to him. They tried to change Barry Sanders' running style and it was a big joke. It's part of what is fun about watching the game... with Fournette you get a little bit of everything like with Adrian Peterson. I just hope he doesn't sit out every other game like last year.
He missed 3 games...
(08-02-2018, 07:59 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2018, 09:36 PM)JaguarJosh05 Wrote: [ -> ]I say let the player do what's natural to him. They tried to change Barry Sanders' running style and it was a big joke. It's part of what is fun about watching the game... with Fournette you get a little bit of everything like with Adrian Peterson. I just hope he doesn't sit out every other game like last year.
He missed 3 games...
And one of those was a suspension for violating team rules.