Yes, and they have been for years.
I hate all these new rules. Every time you see a big hit (which is what makes football exciting IMO,) the defender is flagged. I get trying to make players safe, but you have to make exceptions for incidental helmet to helmet contact. Right now they are flagging guys if any part of their helmet brushes against the ball carriers helmet. It's maddening!
(08-04-2018, 07:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I hate all these new rules. Every time you see a big hit (which is what makes football exciting IMO,) the defender is flagged. I get trying to make players safe, but you have to make exceptions for incidental helmet to helmet contact. Right now they are flagging guys if any part of their helmet brushes against the ball carriers helmet. It's maddening!
You know this will be done to try to get a particular result they want, and I'm not just talking concussions.
The application of these rules will change seasons.
(08-04-2018, 07:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2018, 07:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I hate all these new rules. Every time you see a big hit (which is what makes football exciting IMO,) the defender is flagged. I get trying to make players safe, but you have to make exceptions for incidental helmet to helmet contact. Right now they are flagging guys if any part of their helmet brushes against the ball carriers helmet. It's maddening!
You know this will be done to try to get a particular result they want, and I'm not just talking concussions.
The application of these rules will change seasons.
Like the mysterious defensive holdings to gift a first down and no offensive holding for certain teams.
(08-04-2018, 07:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2018, 07:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I hate all these new rules. Every time you see a big hit (which is what makes football exciting IMO,) the defender is flagged. I get trying to make players safe, but you have to make exceptions for incidental helmet to helmet contact. Right now they are flagging guys if any part of their helmet brushes against the ball carriers helmet. It's maddening!
You know this will be done to try to get a particular result they want, and I'm not just talking concussions.
The application of these rules will change seasons.
And this is my point.The roughest sport in the game is now hockey where you can get cross checked into the boards and get a couple teeth knocked out then come up fighting and knocking the crap out of each other while the refs just sit back and watch the fight....LOL..The NFL is growing into the whimp league and don't think these new rules won't effect the out comes of games because they most certainly will
Hate the new rules. I loved football in the 90s. Double D used to bring so much pain to the opposing team.
A guy like Double D, Rodney Harrison, etc. Would be fined so much.
So, from the wording of this new rule, Fournette won't be able to leap over the pile like he did multiple times for a TD last season. Soon as he leaves his feet they mark him down? This simply cannot happen and will cause a lot of outrage if that's the case. There has to be some sort of common sense behind the ruling over when this is called.
This new ruling is absolutely going to cost teams first downs as well. Not a good change at all.
(08-04-2018, 08:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]So, from the wording of this new rule, Fournette won't be able to leap over the pile like he did multiple times for a TD last season. Soon as he leaves his feet they mark him down? This simply cannot happen and will cause a lot of outrage if that's the case. There has to be some sort of common sense behind the ruling over when this is called.
This new ruling is absolutely going to cost teams first downs as well. Not a good change at all.
In the next collective bargaining agreement the players are going to need to force the league to make half of the competition committee players and give the union equal rights in deciding rules changes with the ownership committee. I'm not sure why it wasn't already done with the way a room full of old guys that never played the game make decisions that determine player livelihoods, but if the players are smart they'll be looking for much more actual power in the next round of negotiations rather than just more money as they've usually done.
I agree. After the 1st penalty of the hof game I wanted to turn it off. You cant make a contact sport contact free. You cant eliminate the risks in a risky game. These guys sign up to play, no one forces them to football.
(08-04-2018, 08:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]So, from the wording of this new rule, Fournette won't be able to leap over the pile like he did multiple times for a TD last season. Soon as he leaves his feet they mark him down? This simply cannot happen and will cause a lot of outrage if that's the case. There has to be some sort of common sense behind the ruling over when this is called.
This new ruling is absolutely going to cost teams first downs as well. Not a good change at all.
No, he can still go over the pile and he won't be marked down when he take off. Even if that will be considered giving himself up (which I don't think it's the case, just like other goal line-short yardage situations), the ball will be marked where the ball is when he touches the ground again with the first part of his body who makes contact to the ground.
I suggest to open the first link in the article where the rules are explained.
I quote the part of interest here:
-If a runner (including a quarterback) gives himself up, then he is down where the first body part touches the ground. The runner should not benefit from additional yardage after the first body part touches. Defenders do not have to go down to initiate contact to stop a runner from gaining more yards after he contacts the ground.
-Quarterbacks and all runners must give themselves up early, and if a defender has committed to a tackle, contact may occur. However, that contact cannot be late or to the head or neck area of the player who gave himself up.
-A quarterback does not have to slide feet first to be considered to be giving himself up. Regardless whether the slide is feet first or head first, as long as he gives himself up, he should receive the protections afforded to him as a player in a defenseless posture.
I think we'll have more clarifications after the first couple of games, the wording makes it more complicated than it is probably, I seriously doubt they are prohibiting short-yardage situations jump over the pile, QB sneak and stuff like that.
I don't think this will be a big deal.
If a player dives he will be down when he hits the ground just like in college.
If this rule was in effect last year, we would have beat the jets.
(08-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this will be a big deal.
If a player dives he will be down when he hits the ground just like in college.
If this rule was in effect last year, we would have beat the jets.
The difference is that defenders can't hit a diving person. So, basically, the team that figures out how to play dive ball is going to dominate.
There has to be a provision made for this or it's going to be exploited. If I'm a coach, I'm figuring out how to get my players any space possible so they can dive forward for 3-5 yards every play. Truth be told, with the way Fournette launches himself, we could get about 6 yards every play just by having him jump over the line.
(08-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this will be a big deal.
If a player dives he will be down when he hits the ground just like in college.
If this rule was in effect last year, we would have beat the jets.
"
the ball will be spotted at the point where the player began to dive, rather than at the point where the player finished moving forward"
We should either make in down by ground contact like college or eliminate the slide rule completely, subjectivity is ripe for manipulation and corruption.
(08-05-2018, 06:18 AM)TearExtractor Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this will be a big deal.
If a player dives he will be down when he hits the ground just like in college.
If this rule was in effect last year, we would have beat the jets.
"the ball will be spotted at the point where the player began to dive, rather than at the point where the player finished moving forward"
The author is misrepresenting the actual rule in the link he provided.
It says explicitly that the ball will be spotted where the player touches the ground.
(08-05-2018, 02:58 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this will be a big deal.
If a player dives he will be down when he hits the ground just like in college.
If this rule was in effect last year, we would have beat the jets.
The difference is that defenders can't hit a diving person. So, basically, the team that figures out how to play dive ball is going to dominate.
There has to be a provision made for this or it's going to be exploited. If I'm a coach, I'm figuring out how to get my players any space possible so they can dive forward for 3-5 yards every play. Truth be told, with the way Fournette launches himself, we could get about 6 yards every play just by having him jump over the line.
No where does the rule say you can't hit a diving player.
You won't be able to hit the diving player once he hits the ground because he will be down.
If you click either of the hyperlinks in the article, you will see that the author's claims are bogus.
What's the point of claiming a player is "giving themselves up" if you can still hit them? The whole point is to keep from taking an unnecessary shot. Seems like a stupidly unnecessary rule that's going to bring about a lot of unnecessary roughness calls.
(08-05-2018, 02:34 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]What's the point of claiming a player is "giving themselves up" if you can still hit them? The whole point is to keep from taking an unnecessary shot. Seems like a stupidly unnecessary rule that's going to bring about a lot of unnecessary roughness calls.
Because under the old rule the diving player could slide or roll forward or as what happened to us against the jets, get up again and run for a TD unless a defender stopped their forward progress. This rule takes away the temptation for the offensive player to try and gain more yardage while being in a vulnerable position and takes away the need for the defender to lay a hit to stop his progress.
This is the same way it works in college. There aren't a bunch of unnecessary roughness calls in these situations in college so there is no reason to think that will happen in the NFL.
(08-04-2018, 08:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]So, from the wording of this new rule, Fournette won't be able to leap over the pile like he did multiple times for a TD last season. Soon as he leaves his feet they mark him down? This simply cannot happen and will cause a lot of outrage if that's the case. There has to be some sort of common sense behind the ruling over when this is called.
This new ruling is absolutely going to cost teams first downs as well. Not a good change at all.
I was just thinking about this. If Fournette is doing his Superman TD dive, he's going head first but he's certainly not giving himself up. They need to make sure they judge the intent of the action and not get too technical. If they rule him to be down at the start of his dive, then there's a serious problem with this rule.