Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I don't see the possible compensatory pick being wildly different than whatever the Jets might offer. 

I say keep him, I still view him as an ascending player.

(08-21-2018, 03:34 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-21-2018, 10:09 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Coughlin likes having waves and waves of pass rushers, but this  is interesting, especially if they think Bryan is ready to contribute significantly this year.  I’ve had my issues with Bortles, but I don’t think Teddy is the answer so if that’s the offer I’d probably just roll with Fowler for this year and take the likely compensatory pick when he signs elsewhere.  I hope for everyone’s sake that there is some confidence in Bortles in the building, especially after having just extended him even if it is a team friendly deal.

Bingo. 

Unless the offer is for a 3rd round pick or better, you keep Fowler, use him up this year as you make your playoff run, and let him walk and take the comp pick after the season once he signs elsewhere.

Size up the Jets arsenal of picks next year. I don't believe they have a second, which is about what I think he's going to garner. With pass rushers at a premium, the Jets may be forced to fork over their 2019 first.

(08-21-2018, 06:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-21-2018, 04:09 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]FTFY

Moncrief only signed a one year deal, so that shouldn't effect our ability to re-sign Fowler next season. Lee on the other hand, signed a 4 year $34 million deal and that inflated price for a #3 WR (which is what he would be on virtually every other NFL team), drastically effects our ability to sign big name players next year and beyond.

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(08-21-2018, 05:29 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Knowing how these nfl trade works.  They probably offered us 5th or 4th round pick at best.

I'd hang up the phone on them, if that was the offer.

ugh idk why I typed moncrief when I meant Lee... but thanks for fixing that

ya I did not like the Lee deal at all


wait I did say Lee in my OP lol someone quoted and changed it to moncrief lol

(08-22-2018, 08:33 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-21-2018, 06:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Moncrief only signed a one year deal, so that shouldn't effect our ability to re-sign Fowler next season. Lee on the other hand, signed a 4 year $34 million deal and that inflated price for a #3 WR (which is what he would be on virtually every other NFL team), drastically effects our ability to sign big name players next year and beyond.

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I'd hang up the phone on them, if that was the offer.

ugh idk why I typed moncrief when I meant Lee... but thanks for fixing that

ya I did not like the Lee deal at all


wait I did say Lee in my OP lol someone quoted and changed it to moncrief lol

Yeah... I was just saying Moncrief probably was money could have been saved too lol
(Though he doesn't carry any cap hit over after this year)

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(08-21-2018, 06:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-21-2018, 04:09 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]FTFY

Lee on the other hand, signed a 4 year $34 million deal and that inflated price for a #3 WR (which is what he would be on virtually every other NFL team), drastically effects our ability to sign big name players next year and beyond.

I think Lee's dead money is small after this year. With his signing bonus and guarantees I think we can cut him with only 3 mil dead cap iirc.
Also.. I think he's a better talent than just a #3. I just think with the talent we've added he's become no more than a 3. (I think once Chark comes into his own, Lee would be 4th behind Westbrook, Cole, and Chark)
I think Lee would be a good #2 in Seattle across from Doug B with Lockett in the slot or something.
I don't think Lee is a #1 guy no matter how much the Jags FO would like to force him to be lol (That's OK cuz we have Westbrook who was a 1st round talent with baggage)
I don't think we'll be looking to sign "big name" players next season.
But crazier things have happened... I didn't expect Norwell this season.

(08-22-2018, 08:40 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 08:33 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: [ -> ]ugh idk why I typed moncrief when I meant Lee... but thanks for fixing that

ya I did not like the Lee deal at all


wait I did say Lee in my OP lol someone quoted and changed it to moncrief lol

Yeah... I was just saying Moncrief probably was money could have been saved too lol
(Though he doesn't carry any cap hit over after this year)

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(08-21-2018, 06:22 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Lee on the other hand, signed a 4 year $34 million deal and that inflated price for a #3 WR (which is what he would be on virtually every other NFL team), drastically effects our ability to sign big name players next year and beyond.

I think Lee's dead money is small after this year. With his signing bonus and guarantees I think we can cut him with only 3 mil dead cap iirc....

After 2019 they have that out in his contract. Not after this year.

(08-22-2018, 09:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 08:40 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah... I was just saying Moncrief probably was money could have been saved too lol
(Though he doesn't carry any cap hit over after this year)

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I think Lee's dead money is small after this year. With his signing bonus and guarantees I think we can cut him with only 3 mil dead cap iirc....

After 2019 they have that out in his contract. Not after this year.

Ah I see. I was reading it wrong for sure on overthecap
It's a negative 3 mil on the cap, with a lot dead.

I dislike his deal even more now.
Dude better ball this year lol

(08-22-2018, 10:25 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 09:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]After 2019 they have that out in his contract. Not after this year.

Ah I see. I was reading it wrong for sure on overthecap
It's a negative 3 mil on the cap, with a lot dead.

I dislike his deal even more now.
Dude better ball this year lol

He was a big part of Blake moving the sticks last season and I'm sure that factored into his deal. With a contract structured the way it is, I'm sure he knows what's expected of him and what it will take to earn the 3rd and 4th years. 

He'll be fine as long as he doesn't have another 6 game stretch of the dropsies. He played well once he got past that last year. 

Letting him walk after 2019 works out pretty well actually in terms of the big contracts coming up for #91, #20 and #44. It's also good timing for the younger WRs to be ready to take on more of Lee's role. Right now he's the only guy out there that can comfortably run the whole tree from every spot and he's the toughest blocker in the WR room. This Lee deal gives the second year guys and the rookie time to catch up to his level in those ways.

(08-22-2018, 10:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 10:25 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Ah I see. I was reading it wrong for sure on overthecap
It's a negative 3 mil on the cap, with a lot dead.

I dislike his deal even more now.
Dude better ball this year lol

He was a big part of Blake moving the sticks last season and I'm sure that factored into his deal. With a contract structured the way it is, I'm sure he knows what's expected of him and what it will take to earn the 3rd and 4th years. 

He'll be fine as long as he doesn't have another 6 game stretch of the dropsies. He played well once he got past that last year. 

Letting him walk after 2019 works out pretty well actually in terms of the big contracts coming up for #91, #20 and #44. It's also good timing for the younger WRs to be ready to take on more of Lee's role. Right now he's the only guy out there that can comfortably run the whole tree from every spot and he's the toughest blocker in the WR room. This Lee deal gives the second year guys and the rookie time to catch up to his level in those ways.

Fair points about Lee however
Reggie Williams was a really good run blocker too lol

I just think we'll see, this season, Cole and Westbrook's talent are too much to keep off the bench. And so next season it'd be tough to keep Lee as the 3rd best option for that ched... I mean they'd have to, but perhaps he's trade bait at that point? If, that is, my prediction comes true about Cole and Westbrook emerging and premier wide outs this season. Westbrook especially.

(08-22-2018, 01:57 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 10:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He was a big part of Blake moving the sticks last season and I'm sure that factored into his deal. With a contract structured the way it is, I'm sure he knows what's expected of him and what it will take to earn the 3rd and 4th years. 

He'll be fine as long as he doesn't have another 6 game stretch of the dropsies. He played well once he got past that last year. 

Letting him walk after 2019 works out pretty well actually in terms of the big contracts coming up for #91, #20 and #44. It's also good timing for the younger WRs to be ready to take on more of Lee's role. Right now he's the only guy out there that can comfortably run the whole tree from every spot and he's the toughest blocker in the WR room. This Lee deal gives the second year guys and the rookie time to catch up to his level in those ways.

Fair points about Lee however
Reggie Williams was a really good run blocker too lol

I just think we'll see, this season, Cole and Westbrook's talent are too much to keep off the bench. And so next season it'd be tough to keep Lee as the 3rd best option for that ched... I mean they'd have to, but perhaps he's trade bait at that point? If, that is, my prediction comes true about Cole and Westbrook emerging and premier wide outs this season. Westbrook especially.

There seems to be a lot of concern about talented players spending too much time on the bench. 
It just shouldn't be a concern. 
Hackett showed us last season that he'll adapt his gameplan, personnel, and mismatches from week to week and sometimes half to half to utilize talent. Maybe he didn't nail it every time, but there were a number of games when his shake ups of personnel and targets kept defenses on their heels. 
I think that is how this perceived "surplus of talent" at WR will gets its proper usage this season. 
Unless someone goes down of course - then there is no surplus of talent anymore.  Which is another reason they have Lee and Moncrief. 
Not to mention the fact that those two are your best bets at beating press man coverage from the X spot right now.
Cole isn't quite strong enough yet, same with Chark, and the other guys are undersized for the role. 

You can't look at the 6 players at WR and say "I don't want player A keeping player B off of the field." 
They all have varying skill sets and varying roles to play because of that - plus you need all of them in case of injury.

(08-22-2018, 02:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 01:57 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Fair points about Lee however
Reggie Williams was a really good run blocker too lol

I just think we'll see, this season, Cole and Westbrook's talent are too much to keep off the bench. And so next season it'd be tough to keep Lee as the 3rd best option for that ched... I mean they'd have to, but perhaps he's trade bait at that point? If, that is, my prediction comes true about Cole and Westbrook emerging and premier wide outs this season. Westbrook especially.

There seems to be a lot of concern about talented players spending too much time on the bench. 
It just shouldn't be a concern. 
Hackett showed us last season that he'll adapt his gameplan, personnel, and mismatches from week to week and sometimes half to half to utilize talent. Maybe he didn't nail it every time, but there were a number of games when his shake ups of personnel and targets kept defenses on their heels. 
I think that is how this perceived "surplus of talent" at WR will gets its proper usage this season. 
Unless someone goes down of course - then there is no surplus of talent anymore.  Which is another reason they have Lee and Moncrief. 
Not to mention the fact that those two are your best bets at beating press man coverage from the X spot right now.
Cole isn't quite strong enough yet, same with Chark, and the other guys are undersized for the role. 

You can't look at the 6 players at WR and say "I don't want player A keeping player B off of the field." 
They all have varying skill sets and varying roles to play because of that - plus you need all of them in case of injury.

I think any WR can do what Lee does.
Which is catch a slant or crossing pattern (or drop one).

And yeah we need all of our guys in case of injury to Lee or Moncrief lulz

(08-22-2018, 02:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 02:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]There seems to be a lot of concern about talented players spending too much time on the bench. 
It just shouldn't be a concern. 
Hackett showed us last season that he'll adapt his gameplan, personnel, and mismatches from week to week and sometimes half to half to utilize talent. Maybe he didn't nail it every time, but there were a number of games when his shake ups of personnel and targets kept defenses on their heels. 
I think that is how this perceived "surplus of talent" at WR will gets its proper usage this season. 
Unless someone goes down of course - then there is no surplus of talent anymore.  Which is another reason they have Lee and Moncrief. 
Not to mention the fact that those two are your best bets at beating press man coverage from the X spot right now.
Cole isn't quite strong enough yet, same with Chark, and the other guys are undersized for the role. 

You can't look at the 6 players at WR and say "I don't want player A keeping player B off of the field." 
They all have varying skill sets and varying roles to play because of that - plus you need all of them in case of injury.

I think any WR can do what Lee does.

Well, you're wrong. Tom Coughlin and David Caldwell clearly disagree strongly with you. 

You might want to go back and look at how much this team runs the damn football as well before writing off the importance of guys like Lee and Moncrief making blocks. They also play a role in opening up those screens to Westbrook, Grant and Yeldon.  
Downplay Lee's dangerousness on the intermediate crossers and run blocking all you want, but he just got paid big time because he does it so well.

I'm all for keeping talented receivers. I truly believe we have our future core with Westbrook, Cole and Chark. That's a talented, young group, but injuries always happen and you got to have talented players to step in. I just don't like seeing the less talented guys making more money than the up and coming stars. Lee is our top paid WR and I truly believe he is the 3rd most talented WR on the roster and by the end of the season, I believe Chark will surpass him as well.

Jets have nothing to offer except a first rounder that's a likely top 5 pick that they won't give up. Just wait for another team to call or keep him.

On a side note it's actually amazing Teddy can even play. His knee was shredded.

(08-22-2018, 02:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 02:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I think any WR can do what Lee does.

Well, you're wrong. Tom Coughlin and David Caldwell clearly disagree strongly with you. 

You might want to go back and look at how much this team runs the damn football as well before writing off the importance of guys like Lee and Moncrief making blocks. They also play a role in opening up those screens to Westbrook, Grant and Yeldon.  
Downplay Lee's dangerousness on the intermediate crossers and run blocking all you want, but he just got paid big time because he does it so well.

Watch out... Lee fan club in the house.

Anywho... it isn't like GMs (ours and Tom included) haven't ever made a bad decision... or a hasty one.
I saw both WR signings as insurance. What if the young guys didn't develop. What if we didn't end up with Chark falling to us in the draft.
What if what if....

I'm just suggesting, with hindsight and all, that we probably purchased too much insurance.

Reggie Williams was a great downfield blocker on a run first team too.
-shrug-

And outside of a couple camp reports early... Moncrief has been hurt or invisible imo.
Don't get me wrong... I believe the team had to do what they had to do... And I know everyone is preaching this "WR by committee" thing. But if you have 2 WRs that are clearly the better receiving options... they should find their way to the field more regardless of contracts... and a WR job is first and foremost to catch the ball and run with it... Blocking is nice and all but c'mon with that noise lol

(08-22-2018, 03:23 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 02:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Well, you're wrong. Tom Coughlin and David Caldwell clearly disagree strongly with you. 

You might want to go back and look at how much this team runs the damn football as well before writing off the importance of guys like Lee and Moncrief making blocks. They also play a role in opening up those screens to Westbrook, Grant and Yeldon.  
Downplay Lee's dangerousness on the intermediate crossers and run blocking all you want, but he just got paid big time because he does it so well.

Watch out... Lee fan club in the house.

Anywho... it isn't like GMs (ours and Tom included) haven't ever made a bad decision... or a hasty one.
I saw both WR signings as insurance. What if the young guys didn't develop. What if we didn't end up with Chark falling to us in the draft.
What if what if....

I'm just suggesting, with hindsight and all, that we probably purchased too much insurance.

Reggie Williams was a great downfield blocker on a run first team too.
-shrug-

And outside of a couple camp reports early... Moncrief has been hurt or invisible imo.
Don't get me wrong... I believe the team had to do what they had to do... And I know everyone is preaching this "WR by committee" thing. But if you have 2 WRs that are clearly the better receiving options... they should find their way to the field more regardless of contracts... and a WR job is first and foremost to catch the ball and run with it... Blocking is nice and all but c'mon with that noise lol

Yes. I'm a Marqise Lee homer. I don't see why he gets so much hate or dismissal from most fans. That's fine.

Lee and Moncrief are necessary because the other receivers are either not quite ready or not of the body type to fill their roles.  They will both be replaced by younger more talented guys in time, but you don't thrust Cole or Chark into the X role against press man only to watch them get beat at the line play after play.  They aren't ready for that yet and the others never will be. 
If you've got a boatload of talented young y and z receivers - overpaying to have some insurance at the X spot isn't a bad idea. 
The blocking thing is secondary to this ^ even though you're still unwise to casually dismiss that factor - and it's even more unwise to dismiss Lee's ability to get open over and over again across the middle. 

In a room full of young receivers, a vet that will average a first down per catch and get you ~800 yards and 3TDs is a valuable commodity.

(08-22-2018, 02:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I'm all for keeping talented receivers. I truly believe we have our future core with Westbrook,  Cole and Chark. That's a talented, young group, but injuries always happen and you got to have talented players to step in. I just don't like seeing the less talented guys making more money than the up and coming stars. Lee is our top paid WR and I truly believe he is the 3rd most talented WR on the roster and by the end of the season, I believe Chark will surpass him as well.

I feel the same way but if I’m being honest with myself...our Receivers aren’t scaring anybody. 

We know what Lee brings which is 800 yards and 3 TDs.

Cole could be the guy that takes off but if he is our best WR then we are in bad shape. He’s not a 1300 yard and 12 TD guy

Westbrook we keep waiting on him to take off and hopefully he does this year. I think he is the key to all of this working

Moncrief I just don’t know about him. He couldn’t make it in Indy so we can only hope he makes it here.

Chark... man I’m hoping he is our stud WR1 he has quick feet for a bigger guy. His hands seem good. He has good speed. He’s got everything we could hope for. Not even sure how he fell to the 3rd. But he is my pick to win the battle.

(08-22-2018, 02:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I think any WR can do what Lee does.
Which is catch a slant or crossing pattern (or drop one).

Lol! +1

(08-22-2018, 02:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-22-2018, 02:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]There seems to be a lot of concern about talented players spending too much time on the bench. 
It just shouldn't be a concern. 
Hackett showed us last season that he'll adapt his gameplan, personnel, and mismatches from week to week and sometimes half to half to utilize talent. Maybe he didn't nail it every time, but there were a number of games when his shake ups of personnel and targets kept defenses on their heels. 
I think that is how this perceived "surplus of talent" at WR will gets its proper usage this season. 
Unless someone goes down of course - then there is no surplus of talent anymore.  Which is another reason they have Lee and Moncrief. 
Not to mention the fact that those two are your best bets at beating press man coverage from the X spot right now.
Cole isn't quite strong enough yet, same with Chark, and the other guys are undersized for the role. 

You can't look at the 6 players at WR and say "I don't want player A keeping player B off of the field." 
They all have varying skill sets and varying roles to play because of that - plus you need all of them in case of injury.

I think any WR can do what Lee does.
Which is catch a slant or crossing pattern (or drop one).

And yeah we need all of our guys in case of injury to Lee or Moncrief lulz

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. It wasn’t that long ago we were saying the same thing about guys like Chastin West, Jason Hill, Kevin Elliott, Jarred Dillard, and Laurent Robinson.

Lee, for whatever reason is under appreciated around here for sure. Sure he’s a tad overpaid but such is the life of the majority of players who get a chance to hit free agency.

I can see why some fans hate Lee. He's injury proned, he often drops easy passes, inconsistent.

I can also see why some fans Love Lee: Very quick, Has big play making ability, and can stretch the field.

The ideal solution for Fowler would be for him to stop being an idiot and clean his act up, Have a monster year, He resigns with the team as a young pass rushing solution. People forget he was a #3 overall pick just a couple of years ago and he had 8 sacks last year.

(08-22-2018, 06:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I can see why some fans hate Lee.  He's injury proned , he often drops easy passes,  inconsistent.

I can also see why some fans Love Lee:  Very quick, Has big play making ability,  and can stretch the field.  

The ideal solution for Fowler would be for him to  stop being an idiot and clean his act up, Have a monster year,  He resigns with the team as a young pass rushing solution.  People forget he was a #3 overall pick just a couple of years ago and he had 8 sacks last year.

Such a false, overblown statement