So looking at the Clay Matthews flags and the many others that have been called, including ourselves, I'm just wondering how fellow football fans feel?
I get the head shots calls, the NFL has to look like it's trying to address concussions but I'm not sure where the league is going with roughing the passer. The whole body weight issue is in response to Rodgers injury last year and it just feels like the league have decided we want the star QB's protected and it's up to the players to change. I saw Strahan saying that you are taught to tackle like that, it's hard for a player who's played for 20 years to suddenly change how they play.
I also don't quite understand how their seems to be no emphasis on the O players to change the way they play. If you take the Gabbert hit from Sunday, he's scrambling around the pocket, his body is up and down and I don't see how the D player has to take all that into account before attempting the tackle. Surely the O players need to understand when a play is going nowhere and give it up rather than scrambling and risking a hit.
I know the league is doing all they can to take the physicality out of football (who asked?) but I fear well get to practice level protection for QB's (just don't touch them) and every game will finish 49-42 as the D's give up endless big plays for fear of tackling.
I am fine with the spirit of the rule (preventing the Rodgers collar bone tackle)
But just like the helmet rule, I think "intent" needs to be looked at. Matthews didn't maliciously slam a QB into the turf, he just fell on him due to basoc momentum. If you pick him up and drive him into the ground, that's different.
It needs to be fine tuned a lot.
I think defenses should just start laying the qb's out with even more gruesome hits till they change it back haha. Like Big ben flopping the other night they should of blasted his a** after that crap.
The packers and Rodgers I don't care that rule is costing them they are the ones who whined and it got this stuff started.
Hit them but don't tackle them, just run them over.
(09-26-2018, 09:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Hit them but don't tackle them, just run them over.
That doesn't work for guys like Ben and Blake though.
(09-25-2018, 08:51 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I am fine with the spirit of the rule (preventing the Rodgers collar bone tackle)
But just like the helmet rule, I think "intent" needs to be looked at. Matthews didn't maliciously slam a QB into the turf, he just fell on him due to basoc momentum. If you pick him up and drive him into the ground, that's different.
It needs to be fine tuned a lot.
That's the problem I have, the new rules aren't black and white, it seems like a lot of it is a judgment call by the refs but then that leads to inconsistent calls.
I also fear like another poster said, that it opens up players flopping looking for a flag to bail them out. 15 yards and automatic 1st downs can be real momentum changers.
But it seems the league wants this grey area that bad calls or non calls can happen.
(09-26-2018, 03:32 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]I think defenses should just start laying the qb's out with even more gruesome hits till they change it back haha. Like Big ben flopping the other night they should of blasted his a** after that crap.
The packers and Rodgers I don't care that rule is costing them they are the ones who whined and it got this stuff started.
That's the thing, no flag or penalty for flopping, the Pierre Paul tackle was crazy and Roethlisberger hammer it up, but he got the flag, new set of downs and gave them room as they were backed up.
I'd like to see the league introduce a loss of down and 10 yard penalty for players attempting to draw a bogus flag.
But that may stop the no D score fest the league seems to think we all want!
The roughing the passer is being looked at as we speak. The committee will re-evaluate it within a week's time...
NH3...
(09-26-2018, 05:10 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-26-2018, 03:32 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]I think defenses should just start laying the qb's out with even more gruesome hits till they change it back haha. Like Big ben flopping the other night they should of blasted his a** after that crap.
The packers and Rodgers I don't care that rule is costing them they are the ones who whined and it got this stuff started.
That's the thing, no flag or penalty for flopping, the Pierre Paul tackle was crazy and Roethlisberger hammer it up, but he got the flag, new set of downs and gave them room as they were backed up.
I'd like to see the league introduce a loss of down and 10 yard penalty for players attempting to draw a bogus flag.
But that may stop the no D score fest the league seems to think we all want!
Ben definitely flopped. However, that would have been called anyway since he made contact with the helmet. They've been calling any contact with a qb helmet, even just a swipe of the defender's hand, for a while now.
I HATE the rule and shudder in dismay at what has become of the game I have loved for more than 40 years.
(09-26-2018, 09:23 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2018, 09:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Hit them but don't tackle them, just run them over.
That doesn't work for guys like Ben and Blake though.
Do it enough and it will.
The issues with the bad calls/ new rules to me are twofold:
1. The calling of the new "lowering the head" rule is already incredibly inconsistent from the striped ones.
2. Helmet to helmet contact is sometimes completely unavoidable when the player being tackled causes helmet contact due to HIS movements just prior to or during the tackle. Such instances not being given consideration will prove to be an ongoing problem. Defenders executing a perfect textbook tackle simply shouldn't be penalized when the ball carrier causes helmet contact.
Probably a dumb idea, but I’ll throw it out there.
The problem is there are two distinct styles of QB play. Pure pocket passers like Brady and mobile run threats like Blake.
Can we consider distinguishing these by naming them different positions?
Place all these protections on the Brady type, but consider them down by two hand touch (or whatever) and they are not allowed to advance the ball with a run. The stronger mobile QBs take their chances and extend plays, but they do not receive special treatment beyond the rules on the books last year.
(09-26-2018, 09:41 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I HATE the rule and shudder in dismay at what has become of the game I have loved for more than 40 years.
I feel the same way. The new rules on contact with WRs and QBs have definitely taken the intimidation factor away from defenses. 20 years ago defenses were allowed to set a certain tone during the game which is now lost. A guy like Jerry Rice was somehow able to make a living playing over the middle for many years. Why? Because his QBs knew their craft and didn’t lead their WRs into big hits. That’s a lost art these days for the most part. O-line play has recently dropped off with the style of offenses being played in college these days. I really don’t see things changing anytime soon unfortunately.
May sound heartless but I dont particularly care about player safety and rules designed to avoid injury. I enjoy the physicality of football more than anything else about it. As the NFL keeps tweaking the rules to avoid more contact, they're going to play this delicate balancing act of being either a violent sport or flag football. I'm not sure thats a position the league should want to find itself in but I think that is where they are headed. If we start seeing more and more bogus calls on Clay Matthews type plays, especially ones that change the outcome of games, I think that is going to turn off a lot of fans. And I'm not sure there are enough of the flag football type fans who would pick up the sport to offset the fans they'll lose who want a more physical, violent game. I know I already watch significantly fewer games than I used to. If it wasn't for the Jags, I probably wouldnt even watch that much NFL anymore.
To me, there is a fatal flaw in this rule in that it wants the referee to determine intent based on actions. And that is pretty much impossible to do at the professional level. The rule asks "was the contact done in an attempt to tackle or an attempt to injure?" And you just can't ask someone to determine that.
It asks too much of the referees.
Well they definitely toned it down this week. Only 4 RTP calls week 4 vs I believe 33 week 3.
(10-02-2018, 04:11 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Well they definitely toned it down this week. Only 4 RTP calls week 4 vs I believe 33 week 3.
There were five roughing the passer penalties over 15 games this week. (33%)
34 over the first 48 games (70%)
stupid NFL
(10-02-2018, 08:44 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]To me, there is a fatal flaw in this rule in that it wants the referee to determine intent based on actions. And that is pretty much impossible to do at the professional level. The rule asks "was the contact done in an attempt to tackle or an attempt to injure?" And you just can't ask someone to determine that.
It asks too much of the referees.
They were discussing this on the Sirius NFL channel earlier. It's hard to determine intent vs. something happening unintended.
(10-02-2018, 07:23 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2018, 08:44 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]...
They were discussing this on the Sirius NFL channel earlier. It's hard to determine intent vs. something happening unintended.
I remember a hit that took Steve Young out of a game. Young slid after a run and a defender "fell" behind him and drove his knee into Youngs head. He hit so hard, Youngs helmet popped off.
Dirty, dirty play but what can you do? How do you prove intent with that?
I don't like any of the rules that pertain to "player safety" because they favor one group of players (QB, WR) over others, at the detriment of other player positions(DE, DB) health. You are seeing guys get hurt trying to "tackle" by the rule, and if you hurt one set of players to benefit others, its a farce to call that "safety" and I think it spits in the face of integrity of the game as well. Its hypocritical, either you are playing tackle football or you aren't. The head down/up rule only seems to apply to tackers too, not runners. Both new rules are bad for football. You can only make a dangerous profession so safe, before you can't perform said profession.