(09-27-2018, 10:35 PM)Eye of the Storm Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2018, 10:29 PM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ]Last year, we could have chosen Cousins as our future, or choose our young defensive stars. You can't have both. We choose wisely, I think.
I would straight up trade Norwell and Malik for Cousins right now.
Man it's not even close to that much either. The difference between Blake and Cousins contracts the next two years is 8 million a year. That's literally only losing Moncrief and Hayden.
(09-27-2018, 10:44 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2018, 10:35 PM)Eye of the Storm Wrote: [ -> ]I would straight up trade Norwell and Malik for Cousins right now.
Man it's not even close to that much either. The difference between Blake and Cousins contracts the next two years is 8 million a year. That's literally only losing Moncrief and Hayden.
I didn’t realize the contracts were that close. With the AFC being as weak as it is, with Cousins we would probably get the first round bye and home field throughout.
I'm pretty sure what Goff is doing right now is the NFL version of a perfect game.
Great game. Probably the best Thursday night game this year.
(09-27-2018, 10:44 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2018, 10:35 PM)Eye of the Storm Wrote: [ -> ]I would straight up trade Norwell and Malik for Cousins right now.
Man it's not even close to that much either. The difference between Blake and Cousins contracts the next two years is 8 million a year. That's literally only losing Moncrief and Hayden.
LOL
So dumb.
It's not that simple. You love to leave out that Cousins has 60 million more in guaranteed money than Blake. Not the first time you've been called on it either.
(09-28-2018, 12:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2018, 10:44 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Man it's not even close to that much either. The difference between Blake and Cousins contracts the next two years is 8 million a year. That's literally only losing Moncrief and Hayden.
LOL
So dumb.
It's not that simple. You love to leave out that Cousins has 60 million more in guaranteed money than Blake. Not the first time you've been called on it either.
I have no idea what the Cap hits are on either player, but really that's all that really matters though, right? Who cares how much guaranteed he has unless you're planning on moving on from him in one or two years.
(09-28-2018, 12:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2018, 10:44 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Man it's not even close to that much either. The difference between Blake and Cousins contracts the next two years is 8 million a year. That's literally only losing Moncrief and Hayden.
LOL
So dumb.
It's not that simple. You love to leave out that Cousins has 60 million more in guaranteed money than Blake. Not the first time you've been called on it either.
It was a 3 year deal fully guaranteed for Cousins, not some 6-7 year monstrosity. There is zero chance we're cutting Blake next year and eating 16.5 mil dead cap. So the only scenario in which guaranteed money matters is if Blake is so bad that we want to cut him in year 3. And obviously if Blake is so bad that he's nuked 2 seasons of prime championship window and we want to cut him in year 3 and start over with a new QB then the whole debate is DOA.
I would throw in a condescending LOL or LMAO and call you so dumb for arguing that the ability to cut a QB if he's so bad that he single handedly derailed a championship window can be construed as a win, but that's not my style. On the flip side, when the point you're trying to support is that pathetic I can see the rationale for going with the ad hominem. I wouldn't want to try to defend it on its merits either.
P.S. the angle you should be taking is that we structured Blake's deal terribly. If we didn't sign Moncrief and Hayden we could have frontloaded Blake's deal instead of making his salary a measly 10 mil this year. If we had done that and structured it like 30/11/13 instead of 10/21/23 then an 18 mil difference between Blake and Cousins would be a legitimate debate to have. As is, Cousins + 8M looks like a screaming deal compared to Bortles going forward.
Man goff looked great and cousins made some throws and mahomes is balling it just sucks to think we may miss our window i really hope we dont.
Jags D looks way better then the two on display last night though. If our O looked like rams omg would be amazing.
One of goffs worst game was vs us last year too.
Rams took a hit a CB.... Talib down. It's not the regular season championship boys, i like our teams depth better. Rams are NASTY no doubt about it and if they stay healthy... shoot they going to win it all but they aren't deep. Rams are going for it NOW... I'd take the Jags roster all day over the Rams.... coaching staff... now that's a different story.
(09-28-2018, 10:53 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Rams took a hit a CB.... Talib down. It's not the regular season championship boys, i like our teams depth better. Rams are NASTY no doubt about it and if they stay healthy... shoot they going to win it all but they aren't deep. Rams are going for it NOW... I'd take the Jags roster all day over the Rams.... coaching staff... now that's a different story.
Weird...
The veiled shot at our coach staff isn't weird... that's expected...
But Rams are better at almost every position on offense...
WR (yep)
QB (oh yeah)
RB (Gurley>Fournette even though they both are beastly)
OL -- I'm not gonna pretend to know their OL like ours... but ours is good not great
TE - wash? Do they have tight ends? Their offense doesn't use them much if so. Of course... we're lacking stars there as well.
On the other side of the ball, I'll definitely take our DBs over theirs... while Peters and the IR'd Talib are premier CBs, I like our safeties and NB more (though Shields looked pretty good last night)
Our DL is similar in that it is talented and deep. Donald is better than anyone we have, imo... but Calais is right there... so we can wash there.
LB... I think I like ours more.
So perhaps I'd take our D over theirs, straight up....
but I'd take their offense every day over ours, and twice on Sunday.
Rams>Jaguars
(09-28-2018, 10:27 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Man goff looked great and cousins made some throws and mahomes is balling it just sucks to think we may miss our window i really hope we dont.
Jags D looks way better then the two on display last night though. If our O looked like rams omg would be amazing.
One of goffs worst game was vs us last year too.
2019 QB draft class is shaping up to be pretty solid IMO.
Grier, Stidham, Lock, Herbert.... we could be looking at 4 or 5 first round QBs again, depending on who stays in college and who declares.
Or... in 2020 we could be on the "Lose-a for Tua" campaign.
(09-28-2018, 05:55 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]P.S. the angle you should be taking is that we structured Blake's deal terribly. If we didn't sign Moncrief and Hayden we could have frontloaded Blake's deal instead of making his salary a measly 10 mil this year. If we had done that and structured it like 30/11/13 instead of 10/21/23 then an 18 mil difference between Blake and Cousins would be a legitimate debate to have. As is, Cousins + 8M looks like a screaming deal compared to Bortles going forward.
Fully guaranteed yo.... fully guaranteed.
Also Cousins has fewer wins than Blake (on more attempts)
This isn't a "Blake is our QB!" thing...
just that you can't look at the one year and be like "Oh Cousins at 8 mil more would have been a deal)
cuz it isn't 8 mil.
Bortles 26.5 mil guaranteed (with 20 mil being paid this year, so we could cut him next year with just 6.5 dead money)
Cousins is 84 mil guaranteed.
(09-28-2018, 05:47 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2018, 12:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
So dumb.
It's not that simple. You love to leave out that Cousins has 60 million more in guaranteed money than Blake. Not the first time you've been called on it either.
It was a 3 year deal fully guaranteed for Cousins, not some 6-7 year monstrosity. There is zero chance we're cutting Blake next year and eating 16.5 mil dead cap. So the only scenario in which guaranteed money matters is if Blake is so bad that we want to cut him in year 3. And obviously if Blake is so bad that he's nuked 2 seasons of prime championship window and we want to cut him in year 3 and start over with a new QB then the whole debate is DOA.
I would throw in a condescending LOL or LMAO and call you so dumb for arguing that the ability to cut a QB if he's so bad that he single handedly derailed a championship window can be construed as a win, but that's not my style. On the flip side, when the point you're trying to support is that pathetic I can see the rationale for going with the ad hominem. I wouldn't want to try to defend it on its merits either.
Hmm.... maybe I've read the contract info wrong.. but I thought his salary for THIS season was 20 million.
That would leave only 6.5 million left to be paid in guarantees. I'm not sure we need to worry about the dead cap next season, since our big players don't have to be extended until 2020.
Either way though... Bortles could be benched with that contract much in the same way Bradford (and Glennon last season) were despite heavy contract numbers.
Also: by being a douche and then saying being a douche isn't your style, you seem extra douche-y.
--oh and Cousins looked pretty good last night, and awful against the Bills.
Is that the kind of consistency we should have paid almost 100 million for?
(09-28-2018, 11:10 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2018, 05:55 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]P.S. the angle you should be taking is that we structured Blake's deal terribly. If we didn't sign Moncrief and Hayden we could have frontloaded Blake's deal instead of making his salary a measly 10 mil this year. If we had done that and structured it like 30/11/13 instead of 10/21/23 then an 18 mil difference between Blake and Cousins would be a legitimate debate to have. As is, Cousins + 8M looks like a screaming deal compared to Bortles going forward.
Fully guaranteed yo.... fully guaranteed.
Also Cousins has fewer wins than Blake (on more attempts)
This isn't a "Blake is our QB!" thing...
just that you can't look at the one year and be like "Oh Cousins at 8 mil more would have been a deal)
cuz it isn't 8 mil.
Bortles 26.5 mil guaranteed (with 20 mil being paid this year, so we could cut him next year with just 6.5 dead money)
Cousins is 84 mil guaranteed.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville...les-14412/
It's 16.5 to cut Blake next year, we aren't doing that obviously. So it's essentially 2 guaranteed years for Blake vs 3 guaranteed years for Cousins. Why are y'all so caught up in fully guaranteed when it's just 3 years. Might as well start being like "omg we gave Moncrief a fully guaranteed deal".
Also, I wasn't being a douche. I was using his words, because he has a habit of trying to go ad hominem on people when his point doesn't have merit. Obviously it was effective since you let him slide and tried calling out the guy pointing it out.
(09-28-2018, 11:04 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2018, 10:53 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Rams took a hit a CB.... Talib down. It's not the regular season championship boys, i like our teams depth better. Rams are NASTY no doubt about it and if they stay healthy... shoot they going to win it all but they aren't deep. Rams are going for it NOW... I'd take the Jags roster all day over the Rams.... coaching staff... now that's a different story.
Weird...
The veiled shot at our coach staff isn't weird... that's expected...
But Rams are better at almost every position on offense...
WR (yep)
QB (oh yeah)
RB (Gurley>Fournette even though they both are beastly)
OL -- I'm not gonna pretend to know their OL like ours... but ours is good not great
TE - wash? Do they have tight ends? Their offense doesn't use them much if so. Of course... we're lacking stars there as well.
On the other side of the ball, I'll definitely take our DBs over theirs... while Peters and the IR'd Talib are premier CBs, I like our safeties and NB more (though Shields looked pretty good last night)
Our DL is similar in that it is talented and deep. Donald is better than anyone we have, imo... but Calais is right there... so we can wash there.
LB... I think I like ours more.
So perhaps I'd take our D over theirs, straight up....
but I'd take their offense every day over ours, and twice on Sunday.
Rams>Jaguars
(09-28-2018, 10:27 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Man goff looked great and cousins made some throws and mahomes is balling it just sucks to think we may miss our window i really hope we dont.
Jags D looks way better then the two on display last night though. If our O looked like rams omg would be amazing.
One of goffs worst game was vs us last year too.
2019 QB draft class is shaping up to be pretty solid IMO.
Grier, Stidham, Lock, Herbert.... we could be looking at 4 or 5 first round QBs again, depending on who stays in college and who declares.
Or... in 2020 we could be on the "Lose-a for Tua" campaign.
Don't buy it.
Jags roster better.
Goff has an arm. So I'd be tempted to take him over Bortles, but Bortles can win games. Proved it twice against NE. Enough for me,but i'd take the arm talent in Goff. Gurley vs Fournette.... eh. 2016 Gurley averaged 3.2 YPC. O-line is everything for a RB. It's a wash. WR? I'd take the Jags corps. O-line? Wash. Defense? Entire defense Jags except for Donald, but I will give some props to Malik. Malik has played exceptional thus far.
Difference? McVay has that chemistry with Goff. Marrone and Bortles? Marrone tells him... don't turn it over kid...(wouldn't take 15 extra TD's at a cost of 5 int's) Bortles looks scared to throw the ball deep sometimes. The throws are there.
You're using the 2016, Jeff Fisher coached Gurley in your argument?
(09-28-2018, 11:39 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2018, 11:04 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Weird...
The veiled shot at our coach staff isn't weird... that's expected...
But Rams are better at almost every position on offense...
WR (yep)
QB (oh yeah)
RB (Gurley>Fournette even though they both are beastly)
OL -- I'm not gonna pretend to know their OL like ours... but ours is good not great
TE - wash? Do they have tight ends? Their offense doesn't use them much if so. Of course... we're lacking stars there as well.
On the other side of the ball, I'll definitely take our DBs over theirs... while Peters and the IR'd Talib are premier CBs, I like our safeties and NB more (though Shields looked pretty good last night)
Our DL is similar in that it is talented and deep. Donald is better than anyone we have, imo... but Calais is right there... so we can wash there.
LB... I think I like ours more.
So perhaps I'd take our D over theirs, straight up....
but I'd take their offense every day over ours, and twice on Sunday.
Rams>Jaguars
2019 QB draft class is shaping up to be pretty solid IMO.
Grier, Stidham, Lock, Herbert.... we could be looking at 4 or 5 first round QBs again, depending on who stays in college and who declares.
Or... in 2020 we could be on the "Lose-a for Tua" campaign.
Don't buy it.
Jags roster better.
Goff has an arm. So I'd be tempted to take him over Bortles, but Bortles can win games. Proved it twice against NE. Enough for me,but i'd take the arm talent in Goff. Gurley vs Fournette.... eh. 2016 Gurley averaged 3.2 YPC. O-line is everything for a RB. It's a wash. WR? I'd take the Jags corps. O-line? Wash. Defense? Entire defense Jags except for Donald, but I will give some props to Malik. Malik has played exceptional thus far.
Difference? McVay has that chemistry with Goff. Marrone and Bortles? Marrone tells him... don't turn it over kid...(wouldn't take 15 extra TD's at a cost of 5 int's) Bortles looks scared to throw the ball deep sometimes. The throws are there.
.gif "Laughing")
I can't even.
You would be "tempted" to take Goff over Bortles?
So.. McVay is making Goff better than he actually is (and their OL makes Gurley better than he is) and Maronne is hampering Bortles and our OL is why Fournette can't stay on the field or average more than 4 ypc himself...?
is that your angle?
Just want to make sure I try to understand you.....
For the record, I would totally take 15 more TDs and 5 more INTs for Bortles. (Also... if you're asking your QB to not throw in fear of INTs... you probably need a new QB)
I really like McVay as a HC. Makes me wonder how much better our offense could be with a young, creative guy like that. I think Hackett actually is a pretty creative play caller at times. I wonder how much Doug and Tom's philosophy of good defense, ground and pound offense plays into Hackett's game plans, if at all. Not a dig at DM/TC, I like both of them leading our team. But Goff looked like a bust before McVay. Bortles improved tremendously from Gus to Doug, makes me wonder a little how much more untapped potential he has.
What I find funny is that McVay is 32 and he has two players (Whitworth and Sullivan) who are older than him.
(09-28-2018, 11:45 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]You're using the 2016, Jeff Fisher coached Gurley in your argument?
ding ding ding
(09-28-2018, 11:52 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I really like McVay as a HC. Makes me wonder how much better our offense could be with a young, creative guy like that. I think Hackett actually is a pretty creative play caller at times. I wonder how much Doug and Tom's philosophy of good defense, ground and pound offense plays into Hackett's game plans, if at all. Not a dig at DM/TC, I like both of them leading our team. But Goff looked like a bust before McVay. Bortles improved tremendously from Gus to Doug, makes me wonder a little how much more untapped potential he has.
What I find funny is that McVay is 32 and he has two players (Whitworth and Sullivan) who are older than him.
Biggest difference is that McVay is an offensive coordinator and HC. He calls the plays, he designs the book.
Well.. no sorry...
biggest difference is the QB if I'm being honest.
But I read somewhere (probably twitter) that McVay's whole offense is based around a high school jet/sweep concept.
It's not some crazy complicated offense, it's simple and very effective.
(09-28-2018, 11:52 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (09-28-2018, 11:39 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Don't buy it.
Jags roster better.
Goff has an arm. So I'd be tempted to take him over Bortles, but Bortles can win games. Proved it twice against NE. Enough for me,but i'd take the arm talent in Goff. Gurley vs Fournette.... eh. 2016 Gurley averaged 3.2 YPC. O-line is everything for a RB. It's a wash. WR? I'd take the Jags corps. O-line? Wash. Defense? Entire defense Jags except for Donald, but I will give some props to Malik. Malik has played exceptional thus far.
Difference? McVay has that chemistry with Goff. Marrone and Bortles? Marrone tells him... don't turn it over kid...(wouldn't take 15 extra TD's at a cost of 5 int's) Bortles looks scared to throw the ball deep sometimes. The throws are there.
I can't even.
You would be "tempted" to take Goff over Bortles?
So.. McVay is making Goff better than he actually is (and their OL makes Gurley better than he is) and Maronne is hampering Bortles and our OL is why Fournette can't stay on the field or average more than 4 ypc himself...?
is that your angle?
Just want to make sure I try to understand you.....
For the record, I would totally take 15 more TDs and 5 more INTs for Bortles. (Also... if you're asking your QB to not throw in fear of INTs... you probably need a new QB)
I'm one of the biggest Bortles believers around, but I'd take Goff over Blake all day right now. That's not a knock on Blake, Goff is just really good.