I hate watching Moncrief out there, guy isn't worth the minimum much less 9 million. Our whole line looks atrocious at this point, but over half of it is missing anyway, so its hard for me to assign too much blame when we are picking up 3rd stringers.
(10-17-2018, 06:40 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]I hate watching Moncrief out there, guy isn't worth the minimum much less 9 million. Our whole line looks atrocious at this point, but over half of it is missing anyway, so its hard for me to assign too much blame when we are picking up 3rd stringers.
I know the last two games have been disastrous, but if there is any ray of hope that came from these two games, it's Chark's performance.
There have been several instances, both in the preseason and the regular season, where it appeared Moncrief gave less than optimal effort on deep routes.
Conversely, Chark has shown me several impressive things these past two games on deep patterns that Moncrief hasn't shown.
Chark has shown the ability to gain that last bit of last second separation. It's not much-an extra step or two-but it's that last second burst that enables big plays to happen.
Secondly, Chark has shown the ability to make a last second adjustment to the ball to enable him to make the deep catch. Against Kansas City, once he got behind the defender, he cut in front of him to cut him off and shield him from the ball. It was a subtle move, but effective and impressive.
I believe he should be starting over Moncrief, if not now, then by after the bye.
(10-16-2018, 08:18 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Moncrief has legit long speed, but clearly isn't an effort guy. No idea why they signed him, but the good news is Arob probably ends up a cap causality up in Chicago in another season if we want him back here at that point.
No thanks. Arob is just a guy. Draft one. No sense wasting money on average WRs. Pay a reasonable amount for a really good one. But the rest are interchangeable.
(10-17-2018, 08:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2018, 06:40 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]I hate watching Moncrief out there, guy isn't worth the minimum much less 9 million. Our whole line looks atrocious at this point, but over half of it is missing anyway, so its hard for me to assign too much blame when we are picking up 3rd stringers.
I know the last two games have been disastrous, but if there is any ray of hope that came from these two games, it's Chark's performance.
There have been several instances, both in the preseason and the regular season, where it appeared Moncrief gave less than optimal effort on deep routes.
Conversely, Chark has shown me several impressive things these past two games on deep patterns that Moncrief hasn't shown.
Chark has shown the ability to gain that last bit of last second separation. It's not much-an extra step or two-but it's that last second burst that enables big plays to happen.
Secondly, Chark has shown the ability to make a last second adjustment to the ball to enable him to make the deep catch. Against Kansas City, once he got behind the defender, he cut in front of him to cut him off and shield him from the ball. It was a subtle move, but effective and impressive.
I believe he should be starting over Moncrief, if not now, then by after the bye.
This.
His Lazyness caused the INT that BB5 threw in dallas. I dont have the all access and if you do feel free to point out if im wrong. The design of the play is one we run a lot. The inside reciever goes down and post out. The out side reciever runs down and in crossing taking the safty and his man deep. When BB5 threw the ball there was only single coverage, But Moncrief lacksadaisily ran his rout as usuall and the safety was not taken deep but was right there to slide over to where the throw was going. And when Moncriefs man saw the saftey go he dropped off moncrief and shifted to where the ball was going, Bam tripple coverage when the ball gets there. Now it was not a good ball it was a 50/50 ball for Westbrook and his defender knocked it away, but there was the other two standing there to make the int all because Moncrief did not make the effort to take his man and the safety deep.
We dont know how much Norwell is helping on the left side.. It may look like he blowing his assignment when really he trying to save blakes life picking up for the invisible LT... I did think hed be getting more push in the run game.. As far as Moncrief, i have to agree. Not a jumpball guy, not the best route runner, looks like he just taking reps away from Chark
Dede Westbrook has 27 receptions and 387 yards so far.
Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns combined have 32 receptions and 365 yards. Just sayin'.
(10-19-2018, 09:09 AM)PF* Wrote: [ -> ]Dede Westbrook has 27 receptions and 387 yards so far.
Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns combined have 32 receptions and 365 yards. Just sayin'.
The issue is not Westbrook over Arob or Hurns. The issue is giving Moncrief all that money when he sucks and it could have gone to ARob.
He may be the next Jerry Porter; but he did make the great TD catch against the Pats, and burned the Jets for the long TD. So he’s not quite down to that level yet.
(10-17-2018, 09:03 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2018, 08:18 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Moncrief has legit long speed, but clearly isn't an effort guy. No idea why they signed him, but the good news is Arob probably ends up a cap causality up in Chicago in another season if we want him back here at that point.
No thanks. Arob is just a guy. Draft one. No sense wasting money on average WRs. Pay a reasonable amount for a really good one. But the rest are interchangeable.
If A Rob is just a guy then all our WR are complete garbage.
(10-19-2018, 09:09 AM)PF* Wrote: [ -> ]Dede Westbrook has 27 receptions and 387 yards so far.
Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns combined have 32 receptions and 365 yards. Just sayin'.
I can tell you are super analytical and smart
(10-19-2018, 10:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2018, 09:09 AM)PF* Wrote: [ -> ]Dede Westbrook has 27 receptions and 387 yards so far.
Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns combined have 32 receptions and 365 yards. Just sayin'.
The issue is not Westbrook over Arob or Hurns. The issue is giving Moncrief all that money when he sucks and it could have gone to ARob.
If it had gone to ARob it still would have been a huge waste of money.
The issue is not either or when the decision should have been neither nor.
NYC4Jags doesnt like all these posts about Moncrief
(10-18-2018, 06:19 PM)continuous Wrote: [ -> ]We dont know how much Norwell is helping on the left side.. It may look like he blowing his assignment when really he trying to save blakes life picking up for the invisible LT... I did think hed be getting more push in the run game.. As far as Moncrief, i have to agree. Not a jumpball guy, not the best route runner, looks like he just taking reps away from Chark
When the defense is only rushing 4 and the guard has his hand on the tackle and looking dead at him he should be blocking him. A number of times Norwell has been beat by the tackle for the defender to get some pressure on Blake or a sack
Sure, hes made maybe one, or two nice catches out of his 50+ targets, but really the only positive so far is that we're not stuck with him on a 2-3 year contract. At least he'll be gone after this season.
(10-19-2018, 10:18 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, hes made maybe one, or two nice catches out of his 50+ targets, but really the only positive so far is that we're not stuck with him on a 2-3 year contract. At least he'll be gone after this season.
We could be the bears stuck with Robinson for at least 2 years who they are paying 14 mil a year to average less than 15 yards per game more than Moncrief. That's 66% more pay for 35% more production with the same number of TDs (albeit 1 less game for Robinson).
So as disappointing as he has been, as of now, we are actually getting more bang for our buck out of Moncrief than the bears are getting out of Robinson.
(10-19-2018, 10:42 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2018, 10:18 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, hes made maybe one, or two nice catches out of his 50+ targets, but really the only positive so far is that we're not stuck with him on a 2-3 year contract. At least he'll be gone after this season.
We could be the bears stuck with Robinson for at least 2 years who they are paying 14 mil a year to average less than 15 yards per game more than Moncrief. That's 66% more pay for 35% more production with the same number of TDs (albeit 1 less game for Robinson).
So as disappointing as he has been, as of now, we are actually getting more bang for our buck out of Moncrief than the bears are getting out of Robinson.
ARob is coming off of an ACL injury and has less targets than Moncrief this season..
Moncrief isn't even 1/4 the WR that ARob is and it's easy to see. ARob would have made multiple catches this season that Moncrief has given hardly any effort towards.
Moncrief's numbers are inflated off of one 70 yard TD catch.. He also has a turnover on the season and ARob doesn't.
(10-19-2018, 10:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]NYC4Jags doesnt like all these posts about Moncrief
Moncrief isn't the player I hoped he'd turn out to be in this offense. I was overly optimistic he'd be able to be a more consistent target. He has struggled more than I thought he would.
Some of the posts are pretty accurate, some of them are really stupid, and some of them are clearly made by folks that have no clue what they are watching. Half of these posters were saying similar things about Yeldon a year ago.
Regarding the notion that he's playing "lazy" - I find that to be pretty poor analysis after reviewing some of his work in game pass. You could find a handful of plays from a few games in which he appears to give up on a route and maybe two plays where he doesn't fight for a ball when he may have been able to salvage a reception from a bad throw. It's a small percentage of his snaps that appear "lazy."
But mostly I just see incompletions coming from a combination of other factors. In some - he and Blake are clearly expecting the ball to be delivered to different places. In others - Blake throws some really bad passes. In a few more, Moncrief appears to not think the ball is coming his way at all based on the coverage. He should be more alert in those instances even if the decision to throw his way was a bad one.
Regardless of my opinion of this "lazy" narrative, he's been a disappointment for the most part. I was an advocate saying that he'd turn out to be worth at least "most" of his inflated salary. It's not looking like that's going to happen.
Prior to taking that stance - I was an advocate of tagging A-Rob.
(10-19-2018, 11:33 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2018, 10:42 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]We could be the bears stuck with Robinson for at least 2 years who they are paying 14 mil a year to average less than 15 yards per game more than Moncrief. That's 66% more pay for 35% more production with the same number of TDs (albeit 1 less game for Robinson).
So as disappointing as he has been, as of now, we are actually getting more bang for our buck out of Moncrief than the bears are getting out of Robinson.
ARob is coming off of an ACL injury and has less targets than Moncrief this season..
Moncrief isn't even 1/4 the WR that ARob is and it's easy to see. ARob would have made multiple catches this season that Moncrief has given hardly any effort towards.
Moncrief's numbers are inflated off of one 70 yard TD catch.. He also has a turnover on the season and ARob doesn't.
It doesn't matter the reason for his lack of production, the bottom line is he is producing less relative to his contract than Moncrief. I guarantee if the bears knew they would be getting this little of production, regardless of the ACL, they would have never offered him such a large contract.
I'm not sure the point you are trying to make with targets because ARob has averaged more targets per game than Moncrief. As far as Moncrief being 1/4 the receiver, their performance on the field this season begs to differ.
You can't just discredit his 70 yrd TD. I bet the bears wished ARob had a play like that to show for this season to help justify his paycheck.
Neither player has lived up to their contract, but for people to suggest it would have been a better idea to spend an additional 5 mil to sign the 48th most productive pass catcher per game this season is just silly.
I still don't understand how some folks on here were either high on Moncrief or surprised by his lack of ability or consistency this year. He's always been just a guy.
He wasn't signed this year to be the primary receiver. Lee was extended for that role in the off-season. And they're still hoping that Chark returns more value on their 2nd RD investment on him.
Bortles is still mixing it up despite the lethargic performances as an offense overall though. He's pretty much spread the ball around evenly. Yeldon has 37 targets. Westbrook has 38. Cole has 39. Moncrief has 40.
My only complaint with those numbers? The lack of involvement or targets made at the TE group. Between Paul, Jenkins & O'Shaughnessy his targeted them for about 50 on the year collectively.
I feel like that's a big missing component right now in the passing game. And I know the injury bug has hammered that position this year. But I feel like Hackett needs to look at that going forward and try to create more opportunities or get more creative there.
(10-20-2018, 06:57 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2018, 11:33 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]ARob is coming off of an ACL injury and has less targets than Moncrief this season..
Moncrief isn't even 1/4 the WR that ARob is and it's easy to see. ARob would have made multiple catches this season that Moncrief has given hardly any effort towards.
Moncrief's numbers are inflated off of one 70 yard TD catch.. He also has a turnover on the season and ARob doesn't.
It doesn't matter the reason for his lack of production, the bottom line is he is producing less relative to his contract than Moncrief. I guarantee if the bears knew they would be getting this little of production, regardless of the ACL, they would have never offered him such a large contract.
I'm not sure the point you are trying to make with targets because ARob has averaged more targets per game than Moncrief. As far as Moncrief being 1/4 the receiver, their performance on the field this season begs to differ.
You can't just discredit his 70 yrd TD. I bet the bears wished ARob had a play like that to show for this season to help justify his paycheck.
Neither player has lived up to their contract, but for people to suggest it would have been a better idea to spend an additional 5 mil to sign the 48th most productive pass catcher per game this season is just silly.
You have done a very good job of googling stats and coming to a complete and thorough analysis. Bravo.