Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-20-2018, 03:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 03:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Ah excuses. "It would be okay to do things wrong, because we're so close!" See Jaguars Circa 2008.

As for the rest, regarding only being able to come up with two QB examples, I'm not someone that follows all 32 teams' needs closely and examines all of their draft picks, but I do follow the Jaguars, and they've been making the same mistakes for as long as I've been paying attention. However, right off the top of my head the Giants of 10-15 years ago drafting defensive line even when they already had guys like Strahan. Worked out fine for them in 2007, didn't it?

The main point is no one could have seen the Jaguars having the kind of injuries they're having this year. Drafting one more guard early in the draft instead of Bryan or Chark wouldn't necessarily help with what's going on right now. The draft is about having a core of elite guys, not having a bunch of guys that were playing the right position. If Bryan turns out to be an elite player in a couple of more years he'll have been a great draft choice unless Lamar Jackson Suddenly starts being able to play (LOL, not happening).

Not excuses. Facts right now until this offense manages to dig it's head out of it's [BLEEP]. I don't follow all 32 teams either. It doesn't take a week to break down all of the above as I did. You threw names. I figured out years and statistics. Anybody can do that. 

I just feel that they had a good shot last year. They played it too conservatively and I just don't know if they'll be able to do that again. They're making the same mistakes though. That's why last year was the first time in ten years that they had played in a play-off game. 

Drafting an offensive lineman made a lot of sense actually. You were coming off a year where Linder had missed some time and has had an issue staying on the field. You had Omameh leaving in free agency. And Cann is just a guy as far as I am concerned. I think they could do better had they made better decisions. 

I can make the same exact argument about Fournette. Who has ALWAYS had a [BLEEP] laundry list of injury problems going back to his days at LSU. And now it's carried over significantly more into this NFL career. They have Yeldon in a contract year. And they had an opportunity to draft one of the best RB's from this class. 

They invested at positions that they were already set at. They invested in players who were more than likely not going to see nor get that very many snap counts this year. Again, instant impact or long term gratification? What situation is this franchise in right now? Again, we're not the Chiefs. We're not the Packers. The Patriots, etc. 

This franchise doesn't win consistently enough to consider any draft pick a luxury pick where you can afford to have a developmental player sitting in the hopper. The offense doesn't have any threats that scare a defense right now. Our defense going into 2018 had a player or two at every level that you have to account for and actually scare the [BLEEP] out of you. 

You say Oranges. I say Apples. Ultimately my point was that you don't get very many opportunities like we had last year. And when we ALL know that we have glaring issues and needs on offense. How can anybody really sit there and be that comfortable with what they've done with this year's draft class? You're lying to yourself. 

If this team was 4 - 2 or 6 - 0 right now. You wouldn't hear a peep out of me. But when your LG is failing. Your LT is out. Your QB is regressing. And you're down two RB's and two TE's? And none of the current players on this roster are good enough to get the ball rolling. Someone clearly miscalculated or [BLEEP] up in the scouting department and personnel department this off season.

You can't go back and fix last year by drafting guys right now. And the Jaguars DID draft a lineman. He hasn't done anything yet, but they did draft one.

(10-20-2018, 03:34 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 03:32 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]But the issue is not "they didn't get depth". They were in position to get some offensive position makers who were more NFL ready than Chark. 

The majority of the draft was forward looking to 2019 at best and more likely 2020. By then, the defense won't have that many elite-level talents, and quite possibly Blake may have run out of rope. It will be a totally different team and the window will probably have past.

Like Vic used to say, "take care of the tomorrow, and tomorrow will end up taking care of today." Forget about the idea of only drafting guys that can have an impact RIGHT NOW. That kind of thinking is what has brought us years of losing.

"Each day you spend holding onto the past keeps you from grabbing a hold of the future". 

You can't keep circling back to world class [BLEEP] up's like James Harris and Gene Smith as your foundation as to why this current front office should or shouldn't approach it with the WIN RIGHT NOW mentality or drafting someone to make an IMPACT.

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

I know. I was screaming for Goedert when we drafted. He'd be much more impactful for this team especially with all these TE injuries. 

I don't know if he'll declare after this year, but Jace Sternberger out of Texas A&M is a guy we should try to draft. I wish he were an inch taller (he may still grow some) and needs to bulk up a bit. He's going to be a productive NFL TE.

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

I understand the frustration that triggered these remarks, but not the facts underlying them.

We picked at the bottom of each round because of where we finished last year.

Our injuries have happened at LT, TE, and RB.

We just drafted a second round LT last year in Robinson, and he had performed pretty well up until he blew out his knee.

If you look at how the draft transpired, there were relatively few Ts taken between our pick at 29 and our pick at the bottom of the 2nd round.  In fact, per drafthistory.com, the only T taken between our first and second round picks was Connor Williams, who got moved inside to G.  After him, the Vikings, who actually picked after us, chose Brian O'Neill, and after him, at the top of the 3rd round, the Raiders chose Brandon Parker.  Neither Parker nor O'Neill have been full time starters at T per profootballreference.com, and that is with Vikings incumbent LT Kalil being injured.

The above notwithstanding, drafting a first round LT the year after drafting an effective LT at the top of the second round would have met with some criticism here, to say the least.

TE has been an issue here, as well.  There were only two TEs taken between our pick in the first round and the Chark selection:  Mike Gesicki and Dallas Goedert.  Gesicki was a good receiving threat, but likely did not meet the team's standard of run blocking.  Same with Goedert, who also had the small school "knock" against him (I am not categorically opposed to small school players, but I understand that has been a consistent basis of criticism here).  Furthermore, to the extent TC has ever had sway over the draft picks, he has never really been a guy to draft TEs in the first round.  However, the team did sign ASJ to address the position.  Now you can say what you will about that signing, but they made the attempt to address the position.

As for RB, everyone knows the recent history of RBs here on this team.  The team drafted Fournette at #4 overall last year, after spending a 2nd rounder on TJ Yeldon back in '15.  Even though the team allowed FA RB Chris Ivory to walk (cut?), that meant more playing time for RB Corey Grant, whom everyone wanted to see get more PT.  There was no shortage of people trashing the Fournette pick at #4 even before his hamstring injury.  What would the complaints have been like had we taken a RB in the first round a year after taking Fournette?

Also remember, everyone viewed LG as a major problem area going into this past offseason.  The team signed Norwell, widely considered the best G prospect in FA considering his age and his All Pro resume.

Now you can make the argument the team should not have taken Taven Bryan at 29.  He has had minimal impact thus far.  However, even assuming that to be an unwise draft decision (he may yet turn out to be a productive player), the facts show there weren't many offensive players who could have helped this team in the injury plagued areas of this team.  

The offense is struggling mightily right now due in large part to injury.  But I don't see how you can say the team approached this past offseason as if there were no offensive needs.

---

(10-20-2018, 02:04 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

Thinking like you propose here is exactly why the team is in the position it's in now. Years and years of "need" drafting instead of best player drafting.

Last year the Jaguars "needed" a running back, so they flushed a top five pick on one with significant injury problems coming out. (didn't "need" a QB, lol!) In 2015 they "needed" a defensive end, so they flushed a top five pick on a guy that had never shown he could play the position. Keep going back and you'll keep finding examples of trying to fill roster holes with draft picks. It didn't help then and it wouldn't have helped now. If Chark, Harrison, and Bryan turn out to be players then this years draft will have worked out, if not then at least it won't be because they thought they needed to fill a roster spot.

What position is that?  A year removed from the AFC Championship, a 3-3 record and still tied for first in the division?!?

(10-20-2018, 09:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

I understand the frustration that triggered these remarks, but not the facts underlying them.

We picked at the bottom of each round because of where we finished last year.

Our injuries have happened at LT, TE, and RB.

We just drafted a second round LT last year in Robinson, and he had performed pretty well up until he blew out his knee.

If you look at how the draft transpired, there were relatively few Ts taken between our pick at 29 and our pick at the bottom of the 2nd round.  In fact, per drafthistory.com, the only T taken between our first and second round picks was Connor Williams, who got moved inside to G.  After him, the Vikings, who actually picked after us, chose Brian O'Neill, and after him, at the top of the 3rd round, the Raiders chose Brandon Parker.  Neither Parker nor O'Neill have been full time starters at T per profootballreference.com, and that is with Vikings incumbent LT Kalil being injured.

The above notwithstanding, drafting a first round LT the year after drafting an effective LT at the top of the second round would have met with some criticism here, to say the least.

TE has been an issue here, as well.  There were only two TEs taken between our pick in the first round and the Chark selection:  Mike Gesicki and Dallas Goedert.  Gesicki was a good receiving threat, but likely did not meet the team's standard of run blocking.  Same with Goedert, who also had the small school "knock" against him (I am not categorically opposed to small school players, but I understand that has been a consistent basis of criticism here).  Furthermore, to the extent TC has ever had sway over the draft picks, he has never really been a guy to draft TEs in the first round.  However, the team did sign ASJ to address the position.  Now you can say what you will about that signing, but they made the attempt to address the position.

As for RB, everyone knows the recent history of RBs here on this team.  The team drafted Fournette at #4 overall last year, after spending a 2nd rounder on TJ Yeldon back in '15.  Even though the team allowed FA RB Chris Ivory to walk (cut?), that meant more playing time for RB Corey Grant, whom everyone wanted to see get more PT.  There was no shortage of people trashing the Fournette pick at #4 even before his hamstring injury.  What would the complaints have been like had we taken a RB in the first round a year after taking Fournette?

Also remember, everyone viewed LG as a major problem area going into this past offseason.  The team signed Norwell, widely considered the best G prospect in FA considering his age and his All Pro resume.

Now you can make the argument the team should not have taken Taven Bryan at 29.  He has had minimal impact thus far.  However, even assuming that to be an unwise draft decision (he may yet turn out to be a productive player), the facts show there weren't many offensive players who could have helped this team in the injury plagued areas of this team.  

The offense is struggling mightily right now due in large part to injury.  But I don't see how you can say the team approached this past offseason as if there were no offensive needs.

---

(10-20-2018, 02:04 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking like you propose here is exactly why the team is in the position it's in now. Years and years of "need" drafting instead of best player drafting.

Last year the Jaguars "needed" a running back, so they flushed a top five pick on one with significant injury problems coming out. (didn't "need" a QB, lol!) In 2015 they "needed" a defensive end, so they flushed a top five pick on a guy that had never shown he could play the position. Keep going back and you'll keep finding examples of trying to fill roster holes with draft picks. It didn't help then and it wouldn't have helped now. If Chark, Harrison, and Bryan turn out to be players then this years draft will have worked out, if not then at least it won't be because they thought they needed to fill a roster spot.

What position is that?  A year removed from the AFC Championship, a 3-3 record and still tied for first in the division?!?

The position of having to spend most of the team's cap on free agents. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next year when they have to start letting go of players because of it. Of course the biggest problem is that the team still doesn't have a franchise quarterback, which they could have had several times if they had a legitimate GM. Personally I think Dave is marginally better than most GMs, but that's not saying much. I think most of them are no better than a knowledgeable fan would be if given their position, they are there mostly because that's how monied clubs like the nfl work, they keep it in the family, they don't rock the boat and bring in fresh outside blood. It's all very incestuous.

(10-21-2018, 08:43 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 09:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I understand the frustration that triggered these remarks, but not the facts underlying them.

We picked at the bottom of each round because of where we finished last year.

Our injuries have happened at LT, TE, and RB.

We just drafted a second round LT last year in Robinson, and he had performed pretty well up until he blew out his knee.

If you look at how the draft transpired, there were relatively few Ts taken between our pick at 29 and our pick at the bottom of the 2nd round.  In fact, per drafthistory.com, the only T taken between our first and second round picks was Connor Williams, who got moved inside to G.  After him, the Vikings, who actually picked after us, chose Brian O'Neill, and after him, at the top of the 3rd round, the Raiders chose Brandon Parker.  Neither Parker nor O'Neill have been full time starters at T per profootballreference.com, and that is with Vikings incumbent LT Kalil being injured.

The above notwithstanding, drafting a first round LT the year after drafting an effective LT at the top of the second round would have met with some criticism here, to say the least.

TE has been an issue here, as well.  There were only two TEs taken between our pick in the first round and the Chark selection:  Mike Gesicki and Dallas Goedert.  Gesicki was a good receiving threat, but likely did not meet the team's standard of run blocking.  Same with Goedert, who also had the small school "knock" against him (I am not categorically opposed to small school players, but I understand that has been a consistent basis of criticism here).  Furthermore, to the extent TC has ever had sway over the draft picks, he has never really been a guy to draft TEs in the first round.  However, the team did sign ASJ to address the position.  Now you can say what you will about that signing, but they made the attempt to address the position.

As for RB, everyone knows the recent history of RBs here on this team.  The team drafted Fournette at #4 overall last year, after spending a 2nd rounder on TJ Yeldon back in '15.  Even though the team allowed FA RB Chris Ivory to walk (cut?), that meant more playing time for RB Corey Grant, whom everyone wanted to see get more PT.  There was no shortage of people trashing the Fournette pick at #4 even before his hamstring injury.  What would the complaints have been like had we taken a RB in the first round a year after taking Fournette?

Also remember, everyone viewed LG as a major problem area going into this past offseason.  The team signed Norwell, widely considered the best G prospect in FA considering his age and his All Pro resume.

Now you can make the argument the team should not have taken Taven Bryan at 29.  He has had minimal impact thus far.  However, even assuming that to be an unwise draft decision (he may yet turn out to be a productive player), the facts show there weren't many offensive players who could have helped this team in the injury plagued areas of this team.  

The offense is struggling mightily right now due in large part to injury.  But I don't see how you can say the team approached this past offseason as if there were no offensive needs.

---

What position is that?  A year removed from the AFC Championship, a 3-3 record and still tied for first in the division?!?

The position of having to spend most of the team's cap on free agents. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next year when they have to start letting go of players because of it. Of course the biggest problem is that the team still doesn't have a franchise quarterback, which they could have had several times if they had a legitimate GM. Personally I think Dave is marginally better than most GMs, but that's not saying much. I think most of them are no better than a knowledgeable fan would be if given their position, they are there mostly because that's how monied clubs like the nfl work, they keep it in the family, they don't rock the boat and bring in fresh outside blood. It's all very incestuous.

Took this thread a long time to get to the usual "Bortles sucks" claptrap.

(10-21-2018, 08:43 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 09:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I[url=https://www.duvalpride.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=23][/url] understand the frustration that triggered these remarks, but not the facts underlying them.

We picked at the bottom of each round because of where we finished last year.

Our injuries have happened at LT, TE, and RB.

We just drafted a second round LT last year in Robinson, and he had performed pretty well up until he blew out his knee.

If you look at how the draft transpired, there were relatively few Ts taken between our pick at 29 and our pick at the bottom of the 2nd round.  In fact, per drafthistory.com, the only T taken between our first and second round picks was Connor Williams, who got moved inside to G.  After him, the Vikings, who actually picked after us, chose Brian O'Neill, and after him, at the top of the 3rd round, the Raiders chose Brandon Parker.  Neither Parker nor O'Neill have been full time starters at T per profootballreference.com, and that is with Vikings incumbent LT Kalil being injured.

The above notwithstanding, drafting a first round LT the year after drafting an effective LT at the top of the second round would have met with some criticism here, to say the least.

TE has been an issue here, as well.  There were only two TEs taken between our pick in the first round and the Chark selection:  Mike Gesicki and Dallas Goedert.  Gesicki was a good receiving threat, but likely did not meet the team's standard of run blocking.  Same with Goedert, who also had the small school "knock" against him (I am not categorically opposed to small school players, but I understand that has been a consistent basis of criticism here).  Furthermore, to the extent TC has ever had sway over the draft picks, he has never really been a guy to draft TEs in the first round.  However, the team did sign ASJ to address the position.  Now you can say what you will about that signing, but they made the attempt to address the position.

As for RB, everyone knows the recent history of RBs here on this team.  The team drafted Fournette at #4 overall last year, after spending a 2nd rounder on TJ Yeldon back in '15.  Even though the team allowed FA RB Chris Ivory to walk (cut?), that meant more playing time for RB Corey Grant, whom everyone wanted to see get more PT.  There was no shortage of people trashing the Fournette pick at #4 even before his hamstring injury.  What would the complaints have been like had we taken a RB in the first round a year after taking Fournette?

Also remember, everyone viewed LG as a major problem area going into this past offseason.  The team signed Norwell, widely considered the best G prospect in FA considering his age and his All Pro resume.

Now you can make the argument the team should not have taken Taven Bryan at 29.  He has had minimal impact thus far.  However, even assuming that to be an unwise draft decision (he may yet turn out to be a productive player), the facts show there weren't many offensive players who could have helped this team in the injury plagued areas of this team.  

The offense is struggling mightily right now due in large part to injury.  But I don't see how you can say the team approached this past offseason as if there were no offensive needs.

---

What position is that?  A year removed from the AFC Championship, a 3-3 record and still tied for first in the division?!?

The position of having to spend most of the team's cap on free agents. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next year when they have to start letting go of players because of it. Of course the biggest problem is that the team still doesn't have a franchise quarterback, which they could have had several times if they had a legitimate GM. Personally I think Dave is marginally better than most GMs, but that's not saying much. I think most of them are no better than a knowledgeable fan would be if given their position, they are there mostly because that's how monied clubs like the nfl work, they keep it in the family, they don't rock the boat and bring in fresh outside blood. It's all very incestuous.

So even though Caldwell is marginally better than most GMs, which are no better than knowledgeable fans, Caldwell is not a legitimate GM?

Tell me, what of Coughlin's influence?

The team didn't spend as much on free agents until TC got here.

(10-21-2018, 09:07 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2018, 08:43 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The position of having to spend most of the team's cap on free agents. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next year when they have to start letting go of players because of it. Of course the biggest problem is that the team still doesn't have a franchise quarterback, which they could have had several times if they had a legitimate GM. Personally I think Dave is marginally better than most GMs, but that's not saying much. I think most of them are no better than a knowledgeable fan would be if given their position, they are there mostly because that's how monied clubs like the nfl work, they keep it in the family, they don't rock the boat and bring in fresh outside blood. It's all very incestuous.

So even though Caldwell is marginally better than most GMs, which are no better than knowledgeable fans, Caldwell is not a legitimate GM?

Tell me, what of Coughlin's influence?

The team didn't spend as much on free agents until TC got here.

When I say legitimate GM I mean someone that can recognize great players without it having to be obvious. Ramsey was obvious, Mahomes wasn't. A GM that merits the millions he's being paid recognizes someone like Mahomes and goes ahead and takes them. Not an injury prone running back.

No idea about TC, but the team signed Malik and others with high priced contracts before TC was here, so I'm not sure what point you think you're trying to make. Are you saying Dave wouldn't have made those signings before TC arrived? Maybe or maybe not, but how does that change that our GM didn't recognize the next franchise QB when he had a shot at him?

(10-21-2018, 09:34 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2018, 09:07 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So even though Caldwell is marginally better than most GMs, which are no better than knowledgeable fans, Caldwell is not a legitimate GM?

Tell me, what of Coughlin's influence?

The team didn't spend as much on free agents until TC got here.

1.  When I say legitimate GM I mean someone that can recognize great players without it having to be obvious. Ramsey was obvious, Mahomes wasn't. A GM that merits the millions he's being paid recognizes someone like Mahomes and goes ahead and takes them. Not an injury prone running back.

2.  No idea about TC, but the team signed Malik and others with high priced contracts before TC was here, so I'm not sure what point you think you're trying to make. Are you saying Dave wouldn't have made those signings before TC arrived? Maybe or maybe not, but how does that change that our GM didn't recognize the next franchise QB when he had a shot at him?

(Numbering added)

1.  There are plenty of good players on this team that weren't "obvious."  Jack, Ngakoue, Linder, Telvin Smith, Allen Robinson (no longer on the team).

2.  Last year, the team signed Bouye, Campbell, Church and traded for Dareus, which made last year the biggest free agency/veteran haul this team has had in quite some time.  This year, the team signed Norwell and ASJ.

(10-21-2018, 10:27 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2018, 09:34 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]1.  When I say legitimate GM I mean someone that can recognize great players without it having to be obvious. Ramsey was obvious, Mahomes wasn't. A GM that merits the millions he's being paid recognizes someone like Mahomes and goes ahead and takes them. Not an injury prone running back.

2.  No idea about TC, but the team signed Malik and others with high priced contracts before TC was here, so I'm not sure what point you think you're trying to make. Are you saying Dave wouldn't have made those signings before TC arrived? Maybe or maybe not, but how does that change that our GM didn't recognize the next franchise QB when he had a shot at him?

(Numbering added)

1.  There are plenty of good players on this team that weren't "obvious."  Jack, Ngakoue, Linder, Telvin Smith, Allen Robinson (no longer on the team).

2.  Last year, the team signed Bouye, Campbell, Church and traded for Dareus, which made last year the biggest free agency/veteran haul this team has had in quite some time.  This year, the team signed Norwell and ASJ.

You think Jack wasn't obvious? Except for Allen Robinson all the other guys were drafted in the third round or later. I can understand that ngakoue was after two studs so he couldn't be taken earlier, but with the other guys I don't see how taking them later means he recognizes how good they are and didn't just happen to have the pick turn out in a fortunate way.

As for the free agent stuff if you have an underlying point you want to make I'd like for you to just make it.

(10-21-2018, 10:42 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2018, 10:27 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](Numbering added)

1.  There are plenty of good players on this team that weren't "obvious."  Jack, Ngakoue, Linder, Telvin Smith, Allen Robinson (no longer on the team).

2.  Last year, the team signed Bouye, Campbell, Church and traded for Dareus, which made last year the biggest free agency/veteran haul this team has had in quite some time.  This year, the team signed Norwell and ASJ.

You think Jack wasn't obvious? Except for Allen Robinson all the other guys were drafted in the third round or later. I can understand that ngakoue was after two studs so he couldn't be taken earlier, but with the other guys I don't see how taking them later means he recognizes how good they are and didn't just happen to have the pick turn out in a fortunate way.

As for the free agent stuff if you have an underlying point you want to make I'd like for you to just make it.

If Jack were "obvious" he wouldn't have lasted until the 2nd round.  I know he was highly regarded, but there were injury concerns that forced his fall from a top 5 pick to maybe a top 5 pick of the 2nd round. Heck, Dallas had a need at LB and took Jaylon Smith over Jack in the 2nd round that year.  Jack wasn't "obvious," and neither were the guys taken later.

The free agency point should be pretty obvious.  I think history has demonstrated TC does not hesitate to sign FAs, even bigger ticket FA signings.  His additional credibility makes the team more attractive for free agency signings than this team without TC.  Conversely, the team was arguably hurt by the refusal of free agents to consider us before TC got here.  Let's approach this from a different perspective, since you are critical of Caldwell due to the free agency signings.

Which of the free agents/trades from last year's AFC championship team did you NOT want on the team and why?  Which of the free agents signed last year (including Dareus) definitevely precluded the team from acquiring a QB last off season, either via draft, free agency or trade?

(10-21-2018, 11:07 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2018, 10:42 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]You think Jack wasn't obvious? Except for Allen Robinson all the other guys were drafted in the third round or later. I can understand that ngakoue was after two studs so he couldn't be taken earlier, but with the other guys I don't see how taking them later means he recognizes how good they are and didn't just happen to have the pick turn out in a fortunate way.

As for the free agent stuff if you have an underlying point you want to make I'd like for you to just make it.

If Jack were "obvious" he wouldn't have lasted until the 2nd round.  I know he was highly regarded, but there were injury concerns that forced his fall from a top 5 pick to maybe a top 5 pick of the 2nd round. Heck, Dallas had a need at LB and took Jaylon Smith over Jack in the 2nd round that year.  Jack wasn't "obvious," and neither were the guys taken later.

The free agency point should be pretty obvious.  I think history has demonstrated TC does not hesitate to sign FAs, even bigger ticket FA signings.  His additional credibility makes the team more attractive for free agency signings than this team without TC.  Conversely, the team was arguably hurt by the refusal of free agents to consider us before TC got here.  Let's approach this from a different perspective, since you are critical of Caldwell due to the free agency signings.

Which of the free agents/trades from last year's AFC championship team did you NOT want on the team and why?  Which of the free agents signed last year (including Dareus) definitevely precluded the team from acquiring a QB last off season, either via draft, free agency or trade?

What makes you think that I think the signings were bad players or not worth it for this team? I'm saying if the team didn't suck for years at drafting they wouldn't have needed to spend half the cap on free agent and traded for defensive linemen just to be a .500 team that can't even beat the titans.

I think our IR list is bigger than our 53-man roster... or at least it feels like it.