Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-31-2018, 10:06 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2018, 09:38 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]It's not that anyone is satisfied with the kind of QB we have in Blake.  We know what he is.  And we also know that when he is playing well we can win with him based on how the team is constructed. If you're going to replace him, you have to be able to upgrade from him.  And, all snark aside, no one you could get during the season would definitely be an upgrade.  IMO, the best we can do in the off season is bring in veteran competition that can hopefully win the job.  A top 15 QB isn't walking through the front door.  Even if a franchise QB is available in the draft, and I have no confidence there is, he still doesn't help you next year.

Is Baker Mayfield not an upgrade to Ty Taylor for the Browns?

I don’t think it’s an impossible stretch to imagine a 1st round rookie being able to unseat Blake miidseason in 2019.  In fact it’s easy to see in retrospect how that could have happened in prior seasons as well.

Yes, Mayfield is certainly an upgrade over Tyrod.  But I don't know if any of the QBs coming out will be as good as  Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, or even Allen.  Maybe one or two at the most?  We're going to be competing against the Giants, Bucs, Dolphins for sure and probably the Raiders, too (because Gruden).  I don't have a high level of confidence in getting a rookie QB this coming year.

But then at this point I'm a little pessimistic, so there's that.  ;-)

I think it's a bit too early without knowing where we select in the upcoming draft. We could lose out by the look of how this team is playing currently. Also, the QB prospects are pretty weak this year.

(11-01-2018, 08:52 AM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]I do see them bundling picks to move up to get their guy in the draft next year.  This additional 3rd rounder will help sweeten the pot for any move up.  But, I also think the team is going to pursue a veteran QB to serve as the placeholder.  As thingss tand right now, I don't see any of the current QBs on the roster when we start next season.

I could also see this happening. Coughlin will make sure Bortles is gone after this year. I do think Kessler has some traits desired in a backup quarterback. He seems to make good decisions and rarely has turned the ball over during his college and professional career. He'll never have the arm to be a starter, but is capable of replacing an injured starter and winning a few games. It will likely depend on how much he will cost.

(11-01-2018, 01:04 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2018, 10:06 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Is Baker Mayfield not an upgrade to Ty Taylor for the Browns?

I don’t think it’s an impossible stretch to imagine a 1st round rookie being able to unseat Blake miidseason in 2019.  In fact it’s easy to see in retrospect how that could have happened in prior seasons as well.

Yes, Mayfield is certainly an upgrade over Tyrod.  But I don't know if any of the QBs coming out will be as good as  Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, or even Allen. 

No one knows that. No one ever really knows that. 

The point I'm making is that if you can identify a QB in this draft that could conceivably start midseason in 2019 that represents an upgrade to Blake Bortles  -- you do what it takes to move up and take him. I don't think it's too big of an ask for the Jags F.O./scouting dept. to make this happen. 

 Obviously if we're picking 22nd and you have to move to #2 to get your guy , that may require giving away too much.
But if the opinions on this QB class flying around this board are remotely accurate, there will be a number of QBs not going that high.  
Can one of those guys throw the football more accurately and consistently than Blake Bortles?
If the answer is yes, just get the kid. 
Even if you have to eventually upgrade him at some point. At least it's a stepping stone in the right direction.

(11-02-2018, 10:13 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2018, 01:04 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, Mayfield is certainly an upgrade over Tyrod.  But I don't know if any of the QBs coming out will be as good as  Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, or even Allen. 

No one knows that. No one ever really knows that. 

The point I'm making is that if you can identify a QB in this draft that could conceivably start midseason in 2019 that represents an upgrade to Blake Bortles  -- you do what it takes to move up and take him. I don't think it's too big of an ask for the Jags F.O./scouting dept. to make this happen. 

 Obviously if we're picking 22nd and you have to move to #2 to get your guy , that may require giving away too much.
But if the opinions on this QB class flying around this board are remotely accurate, there will be a number of QBs not going that high.  
Can one of those guys throw the football more accurately and consistently than Blake Bortles?
If the answer is yes, just get the kid. 
Even if you have to eventually upgrade him at some point. At least it's a stepping stone in the right direction.

I remember hearing 
"I don't know if the QBs coming out next year will be as good as this draft class"
every year

Winston and Mariota were followed by Wentz and Goff
and were preceded by Bortles and Manziel (iirc) (Teddy was the greatest thing to ever come out of college this year, he went 32nd)

The previous class has nothing to do with the future class and no one should ever compare them as if it matters.
Do you need a QB? Yes or no.
Yes? Get one... there are about 2-3 legit first rounders (guys with enough talent to succeed at the NFL level) every year and a handful of other guys (2nd and 3rd rd) worth diddlying around with in every draft
Now whether your coach staff can develop the kid or design an offense around him and whether the GM can give him the proper weapons and protection....
well... who knows lol

(11-02-2018, 02:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2018, 10:13 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No one knows that. No one ever really knows that. 

The point I'm making is that if you can identify a QB in this draft that could conceivably start midseason in 2019 that represents an upgrade to Blake Bortles  -- you do what it takes to move up and take him. I don't think it's too big of an ask for the Jags F.O./scouting dept. to make this happen. 

 Obviously if we're picking 22nd and you have to move to #2 to get your guy , that may require giving away too much.
But if the opinions on this QB class flying around this board are remotely accurate, there will be a number of QBs not going that high.  
Can one of those guys throw the football more accurately and consistently than Blake Bortles?
If the answer is yes, just get the kid. 
Even if you have to eventually upgrade him at some point. At least it's a stepping stone in the right direction.

I remember hearing 
"I don't know if the QBs coming out next year will be as good as this draft class"
every year

Winston and Mariota were followed by Wentz and Goff
and were preceded by Bortles and Manziel (iirc) (Teddy was the greatest thing to ever come out of college this year, he went 32nd)

The previous class has nothing to do with the future class and no one should ever compare them as if it matters.
Do you need a QB? Yes or no.

Thank you.

(11-02-2018, 02:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Winston and Mariota were followed by Wentz and Goff
and were preceded by Bortles and Manziel (iirc) (Teddy was the greatest thing to ever come out of college this year, he went 32nd)

The previous class has nothing to do with the future class and no one should ever compare them as if it matters.
Do you need a QB? Yes or no.
Yes? Get one... there are about 2-3 legit first rounders (guys with enough talent to succeed at the NFL level) every year and a handful of other guys (2nd and 3rd rd) worth diddlying around with in every draft
Now whether your coach staff can develop the kid or design an offense around him and whether the GM can give him the proper weapons and protection....
well... who knows lol

Did you really help your argument here?  My point was that I don't see a Wentz or a Goff in the coming draft, yet.  And as far as reliability and QBing, not one of the rest of the guys you mention is better than Bortles.  Some have better physical gifts, but not one is better at playing QB and winning than him.  I don't think you can spend a first round pick on a QB that is only "meh" because you'll be tied to him for the next five years.

I'm not sitting here pretending to be a talent evaluator.  But if there are good players out there, we start hearing about them early and consistently.  I watch mainly SEC games and a few Big Ten games.  No one has jumped off the screen at me.  Plus, everything I'm reading in the media by people who should know indicates that this is a shallow QB draft.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/inside...king-picks

1.  Justin Herbert, Oregon.  The only QB with a first round grade.
2.  Will Grier, WV.  Second day grade.
3.  Dwayne Haskins, OS.  Second day grade.  I've watched him.  Nothing special, especially in terms of accuracy.
4.  K.J. Costello, Stanford.  Second day grade.  Red shirt sophomore.
5.  Daniel Jones, Duke.  Third day grade.
6.  Drew Lock, Missouri.  Third day grade.  No, no, no.  Doesn't process information on the field well.  Accuracy problems.
7.  Ryan Finley, NC State.  Third day grade.  Lack of arm strength.
8.  Brett Rypien, Boise State.  Third day grade.  

There are a few more mentioned.  But they are all third day graded.

I'm not sure you can spend your first rounder on any of these qbs available at picks 9-20 (because I think we end up somewhere between 6-10 and 9-7).  If you can get them in the 2nd or 3rd, then by all means do.  I'm of a mind to draft a qb every year until we hit on one.  But we've got to have a staff than can develop a quarterback.  And I don't see Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan walking through the door.  But I've been wrong before.

(11-02-2018, 04:23 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2018, 02:44 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Winston and Mariota were followed by Wentz and Goff
and were preceded by Bortles and Manziel (iirc) (Teddy was the greatest thing to ever come out of college this year, he went 32nd)

The previous class has nothing to do with the future class and no one should ever compare them as if it matters.
Do you need a QB? Yes or no.
Yes? Get one... there are about 2-3 legit first rounders (guys with enough talent to succeed at the NFL level) every year and a handful of other guys (2nd and 3rd rd) worth diddlying around with in every draft
Now whether your coach staff can develop the kid or design an offense around him and whether the GM can give him the proper weapons and protection....
well... who knows lol

Did you really help your argument here?  My point was that I don't see a Wentz or a Goff in the coming draft, yet.  And as far as reliability and QBing, not one of the rest of the guys you mention is better than Bortles.  Some have better physical gifts, but not one is better at playing QB and winning than him.  I don't think you can spend a first round pick on a QB that is only "meh" because you'll be tied to him for the next five years.

I'm not sitting here pretending to be a talent evaluator.  But if there are good players out there, we start hearing about them early and consistently.  I watch mainly SEC games and a few Big Ten games.  No one has jumped off the screen at me.  Plus, everything I'm reading in the media by people who should know indicates that this is a shallow QB draft.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/inside...king-picks

1.  Justin Herbert, Oregon.  The only QB with a first round grade.
2.  Will Grier, WV.  Second day grade.
3.  Dwayne Haskins, OS.  Second day grade.  I've watched him.  Nothing special, especially in terms of accuracy.
4.  K.J. Costello, Stanford.  Second day grade.  Red shirt sophomore.
5.  Daniel Jones, Duke.  Third day grade.
6.  Drew Lock, Missouri.  Third day grade.  No, no, no.  Doesn't process information on the field well.  Accuracy problems.
7.  Ryan Finley, NC State.  Third day grade.  Lack of arm strength.
8.  Brett Rypien, Boise State.  Third day grade.  

There are a few more mentioned.  But they are all third day graded.

I'm not sure you can spend your first rounder on any of these qbs available at picks 9-20 (because I think we end up somewhere between 6-10 and 9-7).  If you can get them in the 2nd or 3rd, then by all means do.  I'm of a mind to draft a qb every year until we hit on one.  But we've got to have a staff than can develop a quarterback.  And I don't see Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan walking through the door.  But I've been wrong before.

You don't always hear about the better QBs this early.  Mahomes was a 2nd round pick on many boards all the way up to March last year. Garappolo remained a 2nd round grade. 

I just looked at a board that has Herbert and Finley going in round one and Jarrett Stidham and Jake Browning as round two quarterbacks. This stuff is all over the map right now and the draft is a long way away. 

What the media is saying about these QBs will be a whole lot different come March and April. A few of them always move up boards. 

I have not "evaluated" any of these guys. But I'm hopeful the front office can identify one of them as an upgrade to Bortles.

I could see us doing something similar to what the Browns did with Kizer/Mayfield. Using a high pick to "upgrade" QB position temporarily, trade him after a year, get the franchise guy in 2020. I mean anyone is an upgrade over Bortles, mind as well try it.

(10-30-2018, 08:07 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-30-2018, 08:03 PM)unf_nashvillian Wrote: [ -> ]Based on what?  He hasn't done anything but stay injured.  You guys are eating that one.

You acting like he wasn't a 1,000 yard rusher last year. On his rookie contract, only 23 years old, no off the field issues... you're acting like he's coming off a torn Achilles with no history in the NFL. Get out of here, Amari Drooper went for a 1st, I wouldn't be shocked to see Fournette go for a 1st to a RB needy team looking for a chip...

 This post aged well.

(08-31-2020, 10:27 AM)unf_nashvillian Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-30-2018, 08:07 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]You acting like he wasn't a 1,000 yard rusher last year. On his rookie contract, only 23 years old, no off the field issues... you're acting like he's coming off a torn Achilles with no history in the NFL. Get out of here, Amari Drooper went for a 1st, I wouldn't be shocked to see Fournette go for a 1st to a RB needy team looking for a chip...

 This post aged well.

Bruhhhh you dug deep to find this.... 2018... yikes.