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I just went back and looked at all of Gene's draft picks and then looked at all of Dave's.

 

As a result -  I can no longer take this topic seriously. 

Quote:I just went back and looked at all of Gene's draft picks and then looked at all of Dave's.


As a result - I can no longer take this topic seriously.

Being better than Gene Smith doesn't excuse you from criticism.

Dave missed on his HC, likely his QB, and he has a habit of sticking with his roster pet projects longer than he should...but as far as pure talent acquisition goes I think he has been on par or better than most GMs. Fine if he stays, fine if he goes. 

Quote:Being better than Gene Smith doesn't excuse you from criticism.

I like a lot of the players Dave has brought in or drafted.  They are quality NFL players that would be starting elsewhere if not here. 

He is the least of my concerns when it comes to the issues facing the Jaguars.  

The least by a wide margin. 

You guys go ahead and find a way to put the team's struggles on Dave. I don't see it. 

Quote:I'd take that in a heartbeat. With Bortles approaching a contract year, it will be a tough decision to be honest.


With the way some of these rookies are playing with good coaching makes the decision even more enticing.


However, this would be egg in the face for Caldwell and likely would never happen under this regime.

 

   I certainly agree with you that it wouldn't happen with this regime.

 

   Though I respect where you are coming from,   the risk of making a trade along these lines is that many young QBs don't pan out.    For every Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott,   there's a Jared Goff and Christian Hackenberg that have yet to emerge as starters despite their respective teams having stopgap type of QBs.   In Hackenberg's case,  in essence he's the Jets # 4 QB despite being drafted this year in Round 2.    In Goff's case,  if he wasn't the # 1 pick in the draft,  he probably would still be the Rams # 3 QB. 

Quote:Can you have an adult conversation without calling someone a moron?


An objective person needs to realize drafting in the top 10 your entire draft history will naturally net you some talent.


It also has to be noted that his entire first draft class will likely not be on the roster next year.


Not throwing in the towel on DC, but everything isn't perfume and roses.

 

1. His first draft class was based on reports from Gene Smith's scouting staff. Caldwell replaced a lot of those scouts before the next draft.


2. It was a very weak draft across the entire NFL.


 

3. Caldwell drafted five DBs that year. Not a single one has improved beyond his rookie ability. That points to a failure in coaching. The odds that five separate rookie DBs are incapable of improvement is vanishingly small.


 

4. Caldwell's 2014 draft was exceptional. Robinson, Linder and Telvin Smith are Pro Bowl level players, and weren't "top 10" picks. Bortles, Lee and Colvin are at a minimum valuable players.

Quote:That tells you he knows or has what it takes to lead this franchise to a place of contending every year.

 

I see everyone just blame coaching for everything but I'm sorry the personnel and players need to be held accountable too.

 

And PLEASE do not say he hit on a QB. The same QB who cant go 2 games without a turnover. He is not a hit as of now.

 

We need to clean house if we being honest.

 

Quote:That tells you he knows or has what it takes to lead this franchise to a place of contending every year.

 

I see everyone just blame coaching for everything but I'm sorry the personnel and players need to be held accountable too.

 

And PLEASE do not say he hit on a QB. The same QB who cant go 2 games without a turnover. He is not a hit as of now.

 

We need to clean house if we being honest.

 

An example of why you shouldn't drink and post during a game.

Quote:I like a lot of the players Dave has brought in or drafted. They are quality NFL players that would be starting elsewhere if not here.

He is the least of my concerns when it comes to the issues facing the Jaguars.

The least by a wide margin.

You guys go ahead and find a way to put the team's struggles on Dave. I don't see it.

I'm not directly blaming struggles on DC. I'm simply saying he is no better than any other GM for acquiring talent with top 10 picks. It's a pretty easy thing to do actually.

The sky isn't falling... honest...

Quote:1. His first draft class was based on reports from Gene Smith's scouting staff. Caldwell replaced a lot of those scouts before the next draft.


2. It was a very weak draft across the entire NFL.


3. Caldwell drafted five DBs that year. Not a single one has improved beyond his rookie ability. That points to a failure in coaching. The odds that five separate rookie DBs are incapable of improvement is vanishingly small.


4. Caldwell's 2014 draft was exceptional. Robinson, Linder and Telvin Smith are Pro Bowl level players, and weren't "top 10" picks. Bortles, Lee and Colvin are at a minimum valuable players.

I dont know the inner workings of who can fire who, but if Dave has the ability to fire a HC who has managed not to develop anybody, isn't that on him as much as the HC?

Quote:You guys go ahead and find a way to put the team's struggles on Dave. I don't see it. 

You miss with your hand picked HC and QB and a lot of GMs don't survive that no matter how good the rest of their portfolio looks. If the rest of Blake's season goes as this one has gone so far, which is likely, then I completely understand why he could get fired. Again, not saying he will or should, but it would be understandable. 

Quote:I'm not directly blaming struggles on DC. I'm simply saying he is no better than any other GM for acquiring talent with top 10 picks. It's a pretty easy thing to do actually.

I'd say he's slightly above average in that category and well above average in the 3rd-5th rounds. 

His UDFAs are notable and he's been smarter than most about his FA acquisitions. 

Quote:You miss with your hand picked HC and QB 

The QB miss is still just an opinion at this stage. 

 

And LOTS of good GMs miss on first round QBs.  It's actually more common to miss than hit on them. 

Quote:The QB miss is still just an opinion at this stage. 

 

And LOTS of good GMs miss on first round QBs.  It's actually more common to miss than hit on them. 

1. I said that in the 2nd sentence.

 

2. Yes they do, and they usually get fired. It's pretty rare for a GM to get to attempt to draft a 2nd franchise QB. 

Quote:   Hypothetical question:

 

   How much trade compensation do you believe the 49ers,  Bears,  Jets,  or any team for that matter with a major QB need would give the Jaguars for Blake Bortles?     

 

   My guess is at the very least,  the Jaguars would get the equivalent of two 1st Round picks for Bortles if they were willing to trade him.

 

I wouldn't take it. How many years would we be searching for another QB after Bortles? In each draft we'd be using a top pick and then sign him to first round money then wait 3 more agonizing years to see if he's the real deal.

 

I think Bortles is just fine. He needs a running game. He needs some polish. But he's definitely not one you want to throw out with the bath water.

 

Regards....................the Chiefjag

Quote:I wouldn't take it. How many years would we be searching for another QB after Bortles? In each draft we'd be using a top pick and then sign him to first round money then wait 3 more agonizing years to see if he's the real deal.

 

I think Bortles is just fine. He needs a running game. He needs some polish. But he's definitely not one you want to throw out with the bath water.

 

Regards....................the Chiefjag

 

 

 This is basically my take as well.   

 

 If Blake Bortles doesn't progress well enough the remainder of the season and the Jaguars as a whole don't make enough tangible improvement,  I think Dave Caldwell should be given the opportunity to hire the team's next HC.   With a priority of finding a HC who will put a plan in place to maximize Blake Bortles'  potential.   As much young talent the Jaguars have at WR and on Defense,   the team likely won't get close to the pinnacle unless the QB position performs like a team strength against good competition.  

Quote: This is basically my take as well.   

 

 If Blake Bortles doesn't progress well enough the remainder of the season and the Jaguars as a whole don't make enough tangible improvement,  I think Dave Caldwell should be given the opportunity to hire the team's next HC.   With a priority of finding a HC who will put a plan in place to maximize Blake Bortles'  potential.   As much young talent the Jaguars have at WR and on Defense,   the team likely won't get close to the pinnacle unless the QB position performs like a team strength against good competition.  

 

This^ and anyone wanting Caldwell gone at this point is clueless.  Caldwell made some early mistakes/learning...JokeL, Bradley, etc.  He has since learned and built an awesome roster.  He just needs to get the right HC now.

This totally hurt the rebuild

 

2014 free agent signings

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/20037...ngs-so-far

Quote:I dont know the inner workings of who can fire who, but if Dave has the ability to fire a HC who has managed not to develop anybody, isn't that on him as much as the HC?

 

I wonder just how much of the decision to keep Gus was Dave's, and how much it was Khan's. If Dave was given the power to fire Gus and didn't, then I agree that that was a huge mistake on his part.


 

 

In any case, Gus has fired his OC and DC. Alfie claimed he was told by a reputable source (and Alfie had no reason to lie) that the decision to fire Fisch came from above. Considering how close Gus was with Babich, I suspect that he was forced into that decision too.

Trolls gonna troll.