Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

You think you don't like how things are this year? Just wait till next year. It is all because of injuries. Really

(11-18-2018, 08:51 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-18-2018, 08:33 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]There’s literally no reason to fire Caldwell. Bortles did not pan out. Prettt much everybody else he’s brought in was decent.

Bortles has held us back just like Leftwich and Gabbert.

Um, what? 

Caldwell has saddled this team with his lousy batting average in the first round

Coughlin was here too and the top dog of personnel
 The captain goes down with his ship. The team collapsed this year with a bunch of players Coughlin signed off on. It's not just Caldwell when Couhlin signs off on them
 If Coughlin didn't want them they would have been gone

Here is the Coughlin part of Daniel Popper's Athletic article after yesterday's game:

"Executive vice president of football operations Tom Coughlin built his team to win games like this. The 2018 Jaguars are supposed to defend two-touchdown leads. And now there are so many question to ask the architect of this roster.

But Coughlin hasn’t granted multiple interview requests this season, including one Sunday, despite his team’s Super Bowl aspirations sinking faster than the Titanic.

According to a team spokesman, Coughlin prefers to have Marrone serve as the Jaguars’ lone mouthpiece during the season.

He asks for accountability from his players, but he personally offers nothing of the sort."

(11-19-2018, 09:20 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the Coughlin part of Daniel Popper's Athletic article after yesterday's game:

"Executive vice president of football operations Tom Coughlin built his team to win games like this. The 2018 Jaguars are supposed to defend two-touchdown leads. And now there are so many question to ask the architect of this roster.

But Coughlin hasn’t granted multiple interview requests this season, including one Sunday, despite his team’s Super Bowl aspirations sinking faster than the Titanic.

According to a team spokesman, Coughlin prefers to have Marrone serve as the Jaguars’ lone mouthpiece during the season.

He asks for accountability from his players, but he personally offers nothing of the sort."

How many in season press conferences do we have from GMs in the NFL? Or interviews for that matter. So far I've seen Snead and Dimitroff.

Nothing Tom could say during the season would change anything and he certainly isn't going to be open about things

We will see in the off season. Since the patriot win, nothing has worked offensively. The reasons are numerous but centered around the QB. Give me Blake's toughness all day but the offense is very predictable and one dimensional. Due to play calling/coaching/design the formations are repetitive and teams know our tendencies. It was nice seeing the running game early but we had no plan to mix it up from there. The last drive in the first half showed that we can never win a 2 minute drill. I can't remember when the team made playing offense look like anything less than a struggle.

Actually that is not true, when the game is completely out of reach and the other team backs out of the box then we have loser time success.

Going back to the OP, step in how? Fire someone or come in and coach? I was confused about that question.

I think Coughlin will do something different come this offseason. he has to.

(11-19-2018, 09:48 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2018, 09:20 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the Coughlin part of Daniel Popper's Athletic article after yesterday's game:

"Executive vice president of football operations Tom Coughlin built his team to win games like this. The 2018 Jaguars are supposed to defend two-touchdown leads. And now there are so many question to ask the architect of this roster.

But Coughlin hasn’t granted multiple interview requests this season, including one Sunday, despite his team’s Super Bowl aspirations sinking faster than the Titanic.

According to a team spokesman, Coughlin prefers to have Marrone serve as the Jaguars’ lone mouthpiece during the season.

He asks for accountability from his players, but he personally offers nothing of the sort."

How many in season press conferences do we have from GMs in the NFL? Or interviews for that matter. So far I've seen Snead and Dimitroff.  

Nothing Tom could say during the season would change anything and he certainly isn't going to be open about things

You know, someone was just commenting the other day about the difference in the NFL compared to other sports.

In MLB, many GM's give multiple interviews in a SINGLE DAY.  

I think in the NFL they try to act like they are above doing that.   Very strange.

Tom isn't part of the problem?
I kinda think he's part of the problem.

Old school minds and what not.

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(11-19-2018, 04:35 AM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-18-2018, 08:51 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Um, what? 

Caldwell has saddled this team with his lousy batting average in the first round

Coughlin was here too and the top dog of personnel
 The captain goes down with his ship. The team collapsed this year with a bunch of players Coughlin signed off on. It's not just Caldwell when Couhlin signs off on them
 If Coughlin didn't want them they would have been gone

Yep... Caldwell missed on Blake and the whole 2013 draft. He's about .500 on free agents. But he does well in mid rounds it seems (Shack Harris 2.0?)
Coughlin (as overseer) seemingly doubled down on Blake, drafted a RB that doesn't mesh with the QB's style (shotgun vs under center), and then took depth on the DL when we needed OL.
Plenty of blame to go around.

(11-19-2018, 01:24 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Tom isn't part of the problem?
I kinda think he's part of the problem.

Old school minds and what not.

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(11-19-2018, 04:35 AM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]Coughlin was here too and the top dog of personnel
 The captain goes down with his ship. The team collapsed this year with a bunch of players Coughlin signed off on. It's not just Caldwell when Couhlin signs off on them
 If Coughlin didn't want them they would have been gone

Yep... Caldwell missed on Blake and the whole 2013 draft. He's about .500 on free agents. But he does well in mid rounds it seems (Shack Harris 2.0?)
Coughlin (as overseer) seemingly doubled down on Blake, drafted a RB that doesn't mesh with the QB's style (shotgun vs under center), and then took depth on the DL when we needed OL.
Plenty of blame to go around.

^^ I think that is often forgotten.  We had previous stats that Bortles does better when the first play is a pass.  Can he run a play action scheme?  Yeah they botched it for sure but the stubborn traits are everywhere.

1. Rules favor pass blocking and holding calls are down...  Jaguars let's get road graders who plod against edge rushers
2. Rules favor offense over defense... Jaguars let's build a quality defense and draft for depth
3. NFL is a Quick Pass and Run to setup the pass league... Jaguars let's get a guy that can't get rid of the ball or make quick decisions

We are running counter to any type of wisdom.  Honestly I like old school but the league has legislated against it.

Parting ways with Coughlin at this stage of the game seems highly improbable seeing the emotional and sentimental attachment this city has to him. It would take at minimum another half decade for the city and Khan to truly turn on him.


Caldwell was screwing up this roster long before Tom came on the scene, so the most likely and realistic expectation this off-season is getting rid of Caldwell, and Coughlin either publicly taking full responsibility for personnel decisions, or stepping back in the shadows and hiring a GM that will.

(11-19-2018, 01:48 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Parting ways with Coughlin at this stage of the game seems highly improbable seeing the emotional and sentimental attachment this city has to him. It would take at minimum another half decade for the city and Khan to truly turn on him.


Caldwell was screwing up this roster long before Tom came on the scene, so the most likely and realistic expectation this off-season is getting rid of Caldwell, and Coughlin either publicly taking full responsibility for personnel decisions, or stepping back in the shadows and hiring a GM that will.

I think this too unfortunately.

TC was seen as a savior and we all bought the fools gold after last season lol
My biggest fear is TC gets rid of Caldwell, takes over all personnel decisions and leaves the coach staff the same. Because he and Doug are guys cut from the same cloth.
And of course Doug will stick by Hack, who has essentially been his OC everywhere he's been.

And then of course, we'll stick with Bortles, cuz he has dead money and they think the injuries to the OL are what caused his "sudden regression" lmao

4 years from now we'll all be saying "we should have got rid of Coughlin too"
and I'll be singing... "I toooooold youuuuu sooooo" (Randy Travis anyone?)

The only hope we have is that the team was built this way, not necessarily by accident, but because that's just the way the cards fell as opposed to a team philosophy. It's no secret that Caldwell was trying to draft guys to replicate the Legion of Boom during the Gus Bradley era, hopefully Coughlin came in and said... well let's get a Power Runner and take the pressure off our QB that can't throw the ball, take our risks early, play the possession game with a lead. Last two year's worth of drafts were meant to compliment what we had. We have to hope that they don't go with this square peg in a round hole approach and keep trying to make a ground and pound team with a defense and adapt. We also have to hope that Coughlin would have taken a different approach if he were given a clean slate, otherwise there is no hope that we will be anything but a fluke playoff team.

I was under the impression that Coughlin isn't the biggest fan of Bortles, based on the comments Bortles has made. For example in one of the playoff games last year, Coughlin complimented he had a "nice first half", a backhanded compliment after they had lost the game to the Patriots. It's entirely possible Coughlin was convinced to keep Bortles, there were obviously things to like about him at the end of last season.

On the other hand, one team to watch is the Panthers. They're basically trying to do the same thing as us. High time of possession and a good defense. The only real difference is that they have a playmaker at QB and arguably a better OC.

(11-19-2018, 01:56 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2018, 01:48 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Parting ways with Coughlin at this stage of the game seems highly improbable seeing the emotional and sentimental attachment this city has to him. It would take at minimum another half decade for the city and Khan to truly turn on him.


Caldwell was screwing up this roster long before Tom came on the scene, so the most likely and realistic expectation this off-season is getting rid of Caldwell, and Coughlin either publicly taking full responsibility for personnel decisions, or stepping back in the shadows and hiring a GM that will.

I think this too unfortunately.

TC was seen as a savior and we all bought the fools gold after last season lol
My biggest fear is TC gets rid of Caldwell, takes over all personnel decisions and leaves the coach staff the same. Because he and Doug are guys cut from the same cloth.
And of course Doug will stick by Hack, who has essentially been his OC everywhere he's been.

And then of course, we'll stick with Bortles, cuz he has dead money and they think the injuries to the OL are what caused his "sudden regression" lmao

4 years from now we'll all be saying "we should have got rid of Coughlin too"
and I'll be singing... "I toooooold youuuuu sooooo" (Randy Travis anyone?)

I don't see how Hackett AND Bortles remain here next year. If they insist on Bortles being the starter next year (which I think they shouldn't, obviously), then they need to bring in an OC who can maximize what Bortles does best, which isn't much.

If Bortles doesn't remain here, then Hackett will surely get a second chance with the unwritten built-in excuse of not being given a proper tool-set to work with.

One of my main concerns is Marrone not recognizing that his coordinators are a problem.

(11-18-2018, 08:51 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-18-2018, 08:33 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]There’s literally no reason to fire Caldwell. Bortles did not pan out. Prettt much everybody else he’s brought in was decent.

Bortles has held us back just like Leftwich and Gabbert.

Caldwell has been terrible. His free agent signings have been terrible. His first 3 top 5 picks likely won't be in the roster next year and his 2018 1st eound pick was awful as well. Norwell has been an epic bust as well. The list goes on and on.

Think about it, he just had his very first draft where he wasn't picking in the top 5. That is very telling.

2013: OT Luke Joeckel (free agent)
2014: QB Blake Bortles
2015: DE Dante Fowler (traded)
2016: CB Jalen Ramsey
2017: RB Leonard Fournette
2018: DL Taven Bryan

2013 might have been the poorest draft talent-wise in a generation. In 2014, how do you propose we addressed the QB situation, stick with Gabbert? Draft Bridgewater? Fowler had talent, and the fact that we got draft picks in return for a guy everybody knew we weren't going to re-sign is fine with me.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but we had glaring holes at a lot of the positions where we picked, 2018 excepted. How do you propose we addressed the roster and draft each of those years, considering what alternatives there were? I'm not trying to sound like an apologist, but dang, considering what we started with, and what we've had to build from, I don't see how everyone is screaming how bad he is.

Dude got a draft pick for Blaine Gabbert. He's found great talent outside of the first round. Those might be bigger than hits in the first, if only because those guys are producing for even less of a cap hit while on their rookie deals. Do you all want to go back to Gene Smith? It can be so much worse.

(11-19-2018, 05:57 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Do you all want to go back to Gene Smith? It can be so much worse.

It could be a little worse, it could be a LOT better.

Caldwell has failed in the 1st rounds. He's found some decent players beyond the 1st, but he's batting 2 for 6, possibly 1 for 6 in the 1st rounds; if Bryan turns out like he looks....

(11-19-2018, 05:57 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-18-2018, 08:51 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell has been terrible. His free agent signings have been terrible. His first 3 top 5 picks likely won't be in the roster next year and his 2018 1st eound pick was awful as well. Norwell has been an epic bust as well. The list goes on and on.

Think about it, he just had his very first draft where he wasn't picking in the top 5. That is very telling.

2013: OT Luke Joeckel (free agent)
2014: QB Blake Bortles
2015: DE Dante Fowler (traded)
2016: CB Jalen Ramsey
2017: RB Leonard Fournette
2018: DL Taven Bryan

2013 might have been the poorest draft talent-wise in a generation. In 2014, how do you propose we addressed the QB situation, stick with Gabbert? Draft Bridgewater? Fowler had talent, and the fact that we got draft picks in return for a guy everybody knew we weren't going to re-sign is fine with me.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but we had glaring holes at a lot of the positions where we picked, 2018 excepted. How do you propose we addressed the roster and draft each of those years, considering what alternatives there were? I'm not trying to sound like an apologist, but dang, considering what we started with, and what we've had to build from, I don't see how everyone is screaming how bad he is.

Dude got a draft pick for Blaine Gabbert. He's found great talent outside of the first round. Those might be bigger than hits in the first, if only because those guys are producing for even less of a cap hit while on their rookie deals. Do you all want to go back to Gene Smith? It can be so much worse.

You know we are screwed when the GMs saving grace is "he's better than Gene Smith". 

Playing devils advocate here, Gene drafted a QB 100x better than Bortles and Del Rio was a terrible talent developer.

Not much foresight either with so many defensive linemen coming out in this draft and we take Bryan when offensive line was such a glaring need?