Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(05-23-2019, 11:20 AM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2019, 11:04 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Bortles got a 2nd contract

So did Derek Cox.... and that wide receiver we extended and then traded to Detroit cuz he sucked.

Terrible players get 2nd contracts all the time. I'm not saying Lee is terrible by any means. But I wouldn't equate a 2nd contract to panning out. The FO trusted he was ready to take another step and really produce and he tore his ACL. We'll see if he can bounce back. Personally I would have let him walk in FA before Arob... but I don't call the shots, I just watch to watch.

Like I said, if he puts up the stats you think he can, I'll be super surprised but won't be mad about being wrong about him at all. Some guys I give up on quicker than others, WRs are a dime a dozen, so I'm pretty ready to wash my hands with them after 3 seasons if they don't produce, regardless of who is at QB. QBs admittedly I'll hold on to longer than I should (Garrard, Bortles).
Lee is an afterthought to me, as I'm looking at Chark and Westbrook to be our guys and if they can't I'll probably give up on them before I'm tired of Foles being average.

Derek Cox never got a 2nd contract. Mike Thomas did and was subsequently shipped off to Detroit that one is correct.

Cox didn't get an extension here, he played for the Chargers for a bit though.

(05-23-2019, 11:47 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2019, 11:20 AM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]Derek Cox never got a 2nd contract. Mike Thomas did and was subsequently shipped off to Detroit that one is correct.

Cox didn't get an extension here, he played for the Chargers for a bit though.

That's what I meant. Guys get 2nd contracts all the time. Doesn't mean they are good. 

I could have just listed guys we've given second contracts to that didn't deserve them... but that would be far too depressing a road to walk down

(05-23-2019, 01:50 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2019, 11:47 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]Cox didn't get an extension here, he played for the Chargers for a bit though.

That's what I meant. Guys get 2nd contracts all the time. Doesn't mean they are good. 

I could have just listed guys we've given second contracts to that didn't deserve them... but that would be far too depressing a road to walk down

(05-23-2019, 02:00 PM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-23-2019, 01:50 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]That's what I meant. Guys get 2nd contracts all the time. Doesn't mean they are good. 

I could have just listed guys we've given second contracts to that didn't deserve them... but that would be far too depressing a road to walk down

I always wondered..... what's the toast for haha

(05-22-2019, 10:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2019, 06:20 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]We've been watching him play since 2014. He rarely gets separation unless its on crossers and some dig routes and his hands are poor, I think you can evaluate those things independent from the QB play. He's a very replaceable member of the team

Replaceable? Sure. The other stuff here is just ... well, I don't agree with your analysis at all.

What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/marqise-lee/


I do see he ranks well in contested catches, but that's likely because he rarely gets separation.

(05-23-2019, 10:14 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2019, 04:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah. The Jaguars brass and their 16.5 million dollars in guaranteed money tells a different story on "panning out." 
I think he's shown quite a bit but has been saddled with bad QBs that couldn't capitalize on his ability. 

If you haven't seen the hate over the past few years you haven't been paying much attention to the posting on this forum concerning the guy. There's even some minor hate in this thread if you review it. 

I just hope he gets healthy and contributes - and I feel pretty confident he will.

---

How many routes was he allowed to run in which Bortles was trusted to make a semi-accurate pass? 

Does dumbing down the route tree for a [BLEEP] quarterback not also affect the receivers?

I'm sorry did you just say that the Jaguars brass handing out money means he panned out?
C'mon man... you're smarter than that ahhahaha

Front offices make mistakes all the time. Paying Lee was one of them, whether you want to admit it or not. Dude has been average at best when he makes it on the field. Great guy, great teammate, meh product on field.
Hell I even chalked some of it up to poor QB play. But those sort of things happen to all players. When Robinson and Hurns were here Lee was 3rd best. And flash forward a couple seasons, he's still probably third best. Some of that is bad luck (QB and injuries) some of it is, he is what he is and 5 seasons in he just hasn't done much.

And no... I haven't seen hate for Lee. I've seen people be critical of him much in the same way people were critical of Bortles, or Gerhart, or Bradley... or numerous other people not safe from shade. Funny how criticism is criticism when someone doesn't like a player but if it is one they like then it becomes hate.

We can make excuses for every player and blame Bortles if you want to. But Hurns and Robinson had career years with Bortles as QB and haven't sniffed that production and likely never will (Maybe Arob if Biscuit plays better)
Some guys are just guys and if you have a bet on Lee making HoF or something... I'm sorry, you probably placed a bad wager my friend lol

I doubt he's even 3rd best, but he's locked onto the roster with his $9 mil cap hit so we're going to need to get all we can out of him.

Hopefully, the only thing that will hold Lee back this season is the trainers as per Lee. Marrone already said that Lee is participating much more than he anticipated at this point and time. Exactly the amount and type of participation was never disclosed but nevertheless it's promising to say the least. Our receiving Corp will shine this season and beyond in my opinion.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

(05-24-2019, 06:46 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2019, 10:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Replaceable? Sure. The other stuff here is just ... well, I don't agree with your analysis at all.

What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/marqise-lee/


I do see he ranks well in contested catches, but that's likely because he rarely gets separation.

Barring injury, I guarantee Lee will have his best year as a Jag this year.

I've always liked Marquise and hope he finally gets it together for good. He's had his flashes and with a new QB, i hope he excels.

(05-24-2019, 06:46 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2019, 10:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Replaceable? Sure. The other stuff here is just ... well, I don't agree with your analysis at all.

What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/marqise-lee/


I do see he ranks well in contested catches, but that's likely because he rarely gets separation.

Unless you are actually in the stadium focusing only on Lee on every play, I don't see how you can judge his ability to separate, especially since our former QB seemed to be picking his target at random, whether the target was open or not.

(05-24-2019, 06:46 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2019, 10:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Replaceable? Sure. The other stuff here is just ... well, I don't agree with your analysis at all.

What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

The "doesn't get separation" stuff is laughably poor analysis when you watch his tape. 

He's open very frequently on routes where it's clear he has a potential to do something other than block. There are many where he is clearly meant to clear out an area and immediately turn into a blocker. He takes one step after the break and turn to block without looking for the ball. I'd expect less of that with Foles/Flip.

If you are looking at when the ball arrives you could be duped into thinking he's not getting consistent separation. 
If you look at the steps he takes after his break before he has to adjust to a poorly thrown and poorly timed football, it's clear he indeed gets separation quite often. 

You also have to account for the routes that have been methodically struck from the playbook over the years due to the lack of trust in the QB. Saying "all he can get open on is crossers" is again poor analysis as that is simply what was dumbed down for Blake to throw to him in the system. He didn't get much other opportunity route wise. 
In his first year under Fisch, Lee ran a greater variety of routes and showed good separation quite often with a more diverse tree. 

Again. Just matter-of-fact, calling it like I see it observations from the all 22 here.

(05-24-2019, 08:35 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-24-2019, 06:46 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/marqise-lee/


I do see he ranks well in contested catches, but that's likely because he rarely gets separation.

Barring injury, I guarantee Lee will have his best year as a Jag this year.

So he has to have more than 3 TDs, 850 yards and 63 catches.....  In todays NFL, he should easily reach those numbers if he's as good as some project.

(05-24-2019, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-24-2019, 08:35 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Barring injury, I guarantee Lee will have his best year as a Jag this year.

So he has to have more than 3 TDs, 850 yards and 63 catches.....  In todays NFL, he should easily reach those numbers if he's as good as some project.

Hell I'm hoping one of the new TEs has that much production...

(05-24-2019, 06:46 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2019, 10:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Replaceable? Sure. The other stuff here is just ... well, I don't agree with your analysis at all.

What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/marqise-lee/


I do see he ranks well in contested catches, but that's likely because he rarely gets separation.

I think last year someone said he was dropping balls at a high rate because Bortles couldn't throw a spiral.

lol

I wonder why a 2nd round pick from years ago can't be considered just average and it isn't a slight.
I mean... he's not Nuke or OBJ... he's not even Arob... he's... just a dude.

He does have bad hands. Overall I'd say he is slightly above average.

The question is, will he have more TDs or stupid penalties?

I expect Lee to be reborn (w/respect to NF7)at best providing no injuries at worst.

NH3...

(05-24-2019, 11:45 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-24-2019, 06:46 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]What do you disagree with? I think he nailed it. He does get wide open for easy passes on crossers mostly along with a couple other routes, but routes down the sideline you rarely see him get any separation. As for his hands, well, they actually rank #1...

#1 drop rate at 12 1/2 percent...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/marqise-lee/


I do see he ranks well in contested catches, but that's likely because he rarely gets separation.

I think last year someone said he was dropping balls at a high rate because Bortles couldn't throw a spiral.

lol

I wonder why a 2nd round pick from years ago can't be considered just average and it isn't a slight.
I mean... he's not Nuke or OBJ... he's not even Arob... he's... just a dude.

...just a dude with a $9 mil cap hit.

Lee in attendance today at OTAs. 

https://twitter.com/phillip_heilman/stat...5179649024

Reading the article on Lee doesn't leaving me feeling positive he won't be on PUP week one.

Remember if he practices during camp he can't be placed on regular-season PUP, but he's still eligible. It's possible they do want another vet body with experience to take Lee's place early on if he does end up on PUP.