Is it time to scrutinize our WRs coach Keenan McCardell or does he get a fan favorite pass?
Our WRs don't get any separation and the TV analyst noted several times that our WRs don't run precise routes nor do they run the stop and go routes with any intensity.
Who are our WRs again?
Most are just guys.
Chark, Lee, and Dede are the only decent pass catchers we have.
It really comes down to just talent.
(12-03-2018, 11:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Is it time to scrutinize our WRs coach Keenan McCardell or does he get a fan favorite pass?
Our WRs don't get any separation and the TV analyst noted several times that our WRs don't run precise routes nor do they run the stop and go routes with any intensity.
There is way too little attention to detail in the route running - and of course leading the league in drops by a healthy margin is pitiful as well.
He deserves some scrutiny.
My key issue is that receivers and QBs rarely seem to be on the same page about where the ball is supposed to be placed in relation to the defender and/or boundary, hash etc.
In other words - dependant upon the defender's technique - these guys should have a plan on where the ball is going in relation to the defender and they don't seem to ever get it right.
Obviously - plenty of this falls on the QBs - but excluding general inaccuracy - there have been countless passes down the sideline or in the redzone where the receiver and QB seemed to be expecting the ball to be delivered differently.
They just seem to be winging it out there when it's obvious that better offenses have contingencies for passes to be delivered more back-shoulder/over the shoulder/high/low etc dependant upon the defender's positioning.
I know this stuff is largely reserved for the top tier QBs - but it seems like a completely unbroached topic for our receiving corps and QBs.
My thought is the WRs group is just going through the motions at this point. Hard to get motivated to run crisp medium to deep routes passing play after passing play knowing the ball is never going to make it 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Its hard to beat zone when your passer has no time. You beat zone by pushing it downfield, and you can't do that if you can't pass pro.
It all stems back to the oline.
With that said, I would really like to see us gameplan around Westbrook. Just find ways to get the ball in his hands.
(12-03-2018, 12:05 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ]Its hard to beat zone when your passer has no time. You beat zone by pushing it downfield, and you can't do that if you can't pass pro.
It all stems back to the oline.
With that said, I would really like to see us gameplan around Westbrook. Just find ways to get the ball in his hands.
Westbrook should be a larger focus in the gameplan, for sure.
And you're right about the line greatly affecting this stuff, but there were also glaring receiver issues last season despite the line holding up well much of the time.
(12-03-2018, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-03-2018, 12:05 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ]Its hard to beat zone when your passer has no time. You beat zone by pushing it downfield, and you can't do that if you can't pass pro.
It all stems back to the oline.
With that said, I would really like to see us gameplan around Westbrook. Just find ways to get the ball in his hands.
Westbrook should be a larger focus in the gameplan, for sure.
And you're right about the line greatly affecting this stuff, but there were also glaring receiver issues last season despite the line holding up well much of the time.
In fairness, the key components last year were rookies pressed into duty by injury. Bortles seemed to have a good connection with Lee on the back-shoulder stuff that Moncrief just doesn't have, and they seemed to realize it about 4 weeks too late. Losing him this year really took away those plays.
(12-03-2018, 12:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-03-2018, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Westbrook should be a larger focus in the gameplan, for sure.
And you're right about the line greatly affecting this stuff, but there were also glaring receiver issues last season despite the line holding up well much of the time.
In fairness, the key components last year were rookies pressed into duty by injury. Bortles seemed to have a good connection with Lee on the back-shoulder stuff that Moncrief just doesn't have, and they seemed to realize it about 4 weeks too late. Losing him this year really took away those plays.
I agree, but I think he and Lee were still not on the same page with that stuff too often.
Moncrief (BTW) actually played a quietly good game yesterday. No majpr production - but he did everything asked of him - and he was the sole benefactor of the now limited "shallow cross" for an 18 yard gain.
(12-03-2018, 11:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Is it time to scrutinize our WRs coach Keenan McCardell or does he get a fan favorite pass?
Our WRs don't get any separation and the TV analyst noted several times that our WRs don't run precise routes nor do they run the stop and go routes with any intensity.
You can't coach speed. The routes thing is another issue, I don't know if the announcers know what a precise route is any more than fans do since we don't have access to the playbook.
(12-03-2018, 11:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-03-2018, 11:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Is it time to scrutinize our WRs coach Keenan McCardell or does he get a fan favorite pass?
Our WRs don't get any separation and the TV analyst noted several times that our WRs don't run precise routes nor do they run the stop and go routes with any intensity.
There is way too little attention to detail in the route running - and of course leading the league in drops by a healthy margin is pitiful as well.
He deserves some scrutiny.
My key issue is that receivers and QBs rarely seem to be on the same page about where the ball is supposed to be placed in relation to the defender and/or boundary, hash etc.
In other words - dependant upon the defender's technique - these guys should have a plan on where the ball is going in relation to the defender and they don't seem to ever get it right.
Obviously - plenty of this falls on the QBs - but excluding general inaccuracy - there have been countless passes down the sideline or in the redzone where the receiver and QB seemed to be expecting the ball to be delivered differently.
They just seem to be winging it out there when it's obvious that better offenses have contingencies for passes to be delivered more back-shoulder/over the shoulder/high/low etc dependant upon the defender's positioning.
I know this stuff is largely reserved for the top tier QBs - but it seems like a completely unbroached topic for our receiving corps and QBs.
Could this be the fault of the Defense in practice. Either our Defense is so good that they dont get to be able to complete many of their passes in practice. Or is the Defense told to back off slightly to give them confidence which can also mess with the timing on some routes and how to run them?
(12-03-2018, 01:37 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-03-2018, 11:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]There is way too little attention to detail in the route running - and of course leading the league in drops by a healthy margin is pitiful as well.
He deserves some scrutiny.
My key issue is that receivers and QBs rarely seem to be on the same page about where the ball is supposed to be placed in relation to the defender and/or boundary, hash etc.
In other words - dependant upon the defender's technique - these guys should have a plan on where the ball is going in relation to the defender and they don't seem to ever get it right. ...
Could this be the fault of the Defense in practice. Either our Defense is so good that they dont get to be able to complete many of their passes in practice. Or is the Defense told to back off slightly to give them confidence which can also mess with the timing on some routes and how to run them?
I think it's more about lack of talent/consistency from the passers
and the route runners than the guys defending them in practice. It also falls on the coaching , hence the post in this thread.
This stuff can be drilled with the defenders in practice being instructed which techniques to employ - giving the passer and receivers opportunity to essentially rehearse various ball placements.
Just my opinions and hunches here. Seems like a lacking area of focus to me. Maybe it's just a pipe dream to think teams w/o elite QBs even really bother with this stuff. I certainly don't know if it's commonly coached or not.
(12-03-2018, 11:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Is it time to scrutinize our WRs coach Keenan McCardell or does he get a fan favorite pass?
Our WRs don't get any separation and the TV analyst noted several times that our WRs don't run precise routes nor do they run the stop and go routes with any intensity.
He's limited by what he's got to work with. That being said, we're not seeing the kind of development from the guys who are here that you'd expect. Whether that's a lack of coaching, or it's impossible for them to really develop while dealing with a QB like Bortles throwing them flutter balls, or missing the target by a yard or two, there's no way to be certain. I was expecting more technically sound, smart football from the receivers. We see flashes, but nothing to indicate the coaching is having a positive impact.
Sometimes the WR has to go out there and just make a play. Catch the jump ball. Juke a defender out of his socks. Show off those 4.4 40 wheels.That has happened far too infrequently this year.
I typically don’t like to be critical of position coaches until they’ve have legit talent to work with. Keenan really has 1 second round rookie to work with. The rest are 4th and lower. Moncrief was pretty much who he was already. Same with Lee.
The Cole regression is really disappointing. One of the most disappointing players on the roster this year.
Meh. It's hard to blame the coach when he has a bunch of 2nd and 3rd receivers at best. The only young one that shows any promise is Westbrook and even at that, he's still nothing special. The next best one on the squad (and arguably could be the best one) is Moncrief. I know that the "in thing" to do right now is to hate on Moncrief, but he has been our most productive WR this season.
These guys are all young and trying to adjust to the NFL (with the exceptions of Rashad Greene (4 years) and Donte Moncrief (5 years). I don't think the veteran WRs on the team will be here long.
With that being said, it goes hand-in-hand with who is throwing the ball to them. This team really needs a QB. The two on the active roster are not the answer.
(12-03-2018, 11:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-03-2018, 11:29 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Is it time to scrutinize our WRs coach Keenan McCardell or does he get a fan favorite pass?
Our WRs don't get any separation and the TV analyst noted several times that our WRs don't run precise routes nor do they run the stop and go routes with any intensity.
There is way too little attention to detail in the route running - and of course leading the league in drops by a healthy margin is pitiful as well.
He deserves some scrutiny.
My key issue is that receivers and QBs rarely seem to be on the same page about where the ball is supposed to be placed in relation to the defender and/or boundary, hash etc.
In other words - dependant upon the defender's technique - these guys should have a plan on where the ball is going in relation to the defender and they don't seem to ever get it right.
Obviously - plenty of this falls on the QBs - but excluding general inaccuracy - there have been countless passes down the sideline or in the redzone where the receiver and QB seemed to be expecting the ball to be delivered differently.
They just seem to be winging it out there when it's obvious that better offenses have contingencies for passes to be delivered more back-shoulder/over the shoulder/high/low etc dependant upon the defender's positioning.
I know this stuff is largely reserved for the top tier QBs - but it seems like a completely unbroached topic for our receiving corps and QBs.
I completely agree. This has been missing for some time. They have OTAs, training camp, pre season, 16 weeks of game and practice. They should have that precision from working together so much but as you say often the WR has to make a split second reaction to where the ball is actually going. Hurns used to be great with those. Sadly that comes down to Blake and his inability to throw accurately and consistently.
I was watching a Packers game the other week and i know Rodgers isn't fair to use in an example, but he had Adams run a deep route and cutback at the end. Rodgers throws the ball and Adams takes 4 more steps forwards, turns around and the balls there. When you have that level of ability and ability to read the game makes it so much easier for WR's. When they know that the ball is going to be in a place where they can make a play, there not going to get killed by a LB lying in wait.
Hurns and ARob would make some tough catches bailing out Bortles passes.