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I admit that I thought blake was going to have a good season as well. I was wrong.

(12-16-2018, 12:19 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I admit that I thought blake was going to have a good season as well.  I was wrong.

I was hoping that would happen, but I openly doubted it, so I was right. On the other hand, I also thought Saquan Barkley was gonna be a draft bust, so what do I know? I was right on one thing and whiffed on another. I wish it was the other way around. I would've much rather been wrong on Bortles and not have to go through another QB search.

Knew them picking up his option was a waste of this season and injuries didn't help but come on we weren't gonna dodge the injury bug like last year.

(12-15-2018, 07:57 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 07:14 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Tom's recent arrival and past history should give him at least one mulligan. It's not crime to try to get the next Fred Taylor. Fournette is big and fast as all get out.

If Tom thought Fournette could be the next Fred Taylor then all that does is add to his fireable resume. Their similarities are that they are both big for RBs, end of list.

Big, strong and you forgot freakishly fast.

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(12-15-2018, 07:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 07:14 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Tom's recent arrival and past history should give him at least one mulligan. It's not crime to try to get the next Fred Taylor. Fournette is big and fast as all get out.

It may not be a crime but it's certainly bad planning. Taking him over a QB in a historically good RB class is woeful decision making

In retrospect, you're right. At the time you don't have that luxury. You have to work with the information you have at the time and Blake looked like he'd turned the corner. Why draft a QB high when you believe you have your franchise QB? Hindsight's always 20-20.

(12-16-2018, 09:19 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 07:57 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If Tom thought Fournette could be the next Fred Taylor then all that does is add to his fireable resume. Their similarities are that they are both big for RBs, end of list.

Big, strong and you forgot freakishly fast.

Oh yeah, that less than 1% of his runs where he goes untouched and can build up speed for 90 yards. Yeah, he's freakishly fast in that scenario. The other 99%+ of his carries he is not fast at all. I'll stand by my point that his speed in no way compares to Taylor. Strength, sure...that was implied in size. I readily admit he's a glorified short yardage back.

(12-16-2018, 12:28 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 12:19 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]I admit that I thought blake was going to have a good season as well.  I was wrong.

I was hoping that would happen, but I openly doubted it, so I was right. On the other hand, I also thought Saquan Barkley was gonna be a draft bust, so what do I know? I was right on one thing and whiffed on another. I wish it was the other way around. I would've much rather been wrong on Bortles and not have to go through another QB search.

You whiffed BIG TIME on Barkley lol

(12-15-2018, 07:00 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 06:29 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Disagree a GM role is to consitently bring in talent. I don't care what position it is. And wasn't Blake's contract already structed as a yea here's an extension but you have to prove it still to get all this. Caldwell's always had a problem with arrogance that is his downfall and his team is arrogant while sucking to make it even better. I've never seen a roster this bad tell me they where that good.

Talk about hyperbole.

Well when you only look at a fragment of an entire sentence you don't get the full context of that sentence. I thought Europeans had better education than that?

(12-16-2018, 11:50 AM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 07:00 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]Talk about hyperbole.

Well when you only look at a fragment of an entire sentence you don't get the full context of that sentence.

Full context isn't needed when you post such blatantly idiotic things. If this is the worst roster you've ever seen you either started watching football this year or you don't know what you're talking about. Unless you want to argue that any of the Jaguars teams from 2011 to 2014 were any better than the team we have now.

(12-16-2018, 09:46 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 09:19 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Big, strong and you forgot freakishly fast.

Oh yeah, that less than 1% of his runs where he goes untouched and can build up speed for 90 yards. Yeah, he's freakishly fast in that scenario. The other 99%+ of his carries he is not fast at all. I'll stand by my point that his speed in no way compares to Taylor. Strength, sure...that was implied in size. I readily admit he's a glorified short yardage back.

I disagree. Fred is a Hall of Famer but it's completely understandable why Coughlin thought Fournette might be cast in the mold.  Also consider that Taylor was blessed to play with some pretty prolific pass offenses, not to mention a pretty good OL. Those help. Fred has a little more wiggle but Fournette had many of the same physical qualities. The fact that Fournette hasn't panned out that way yet is why the draft is a bit of a crap shoot. It's easy to look back and say, "oh they shouldn't have made that pick" but Fan is gonna Fan.

(12-16-2018, 09:19 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 07:57 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If Tom thought Fournette could be the next Fred Taylor then all that does is add to his fireable resume. Their similarities are that they are both big for RBs, end of list.

Big, strong and you forgot freakishly fast.

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(12-15-2018, 07:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It may not be a crime but it's certainly bad planning. Taking him over a QB in a historically good RB class is woeful decision making

In retrospect, you're right. At the time you don't have that luxury. You have to work with the information you have at the time and Blake looked like he'd turned the corner. Why draft a QB high when you believe you have your franchise QB? Hindsight's always 20-20.

At the time it was plainly obvious they should have taken a QB over Fournette too. Watson and Mahomes were great prospects and Bortles is not a good QB.  

Their decision at the time was terrible and it's even worse when you look at it now.

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(12-16-2018, 01:37 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 09:46 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeah, that less than 1% of his runs where he goes untouched and can build up speed for 90 yards. Yeah, he's freakishly fast in that scenario. The other 99%+ of his carries he is not fast at all. I'll stand by my point that his speed in no way compares to Taylor. Strength, sure...that was implied in size. I readily admit he's a glorified short yardage back.

I disagree. Fred is a Hall of Famer but it's completely understandable why Coughlin thought Fournette might be cast in the mold.  Also consider that Taylor was blessed to play with some pretty prolific pass offenses, not to mention a pretty good OL. Those help. Fred has a little more wiggle but Fournette had many of the same physical qualities. The fact that Fournette hasn't panned out that way yet is why the draft is a bit of a crap shoot. It's easy to look back and say, "oh they shouldn't have made that pick" but Fan is gonna Fan.

Taylor was extremely agile+ explosive for his size and could run through people for fun. Fournettes contact balance and agility is very poor. 

He doesn't break anywhere near as many tackles as guy his size should

(12-16-2018, 03:35 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]At the time it was plainly obvious they should have taken a QB over Fournette too. Watson and Mahomes were great prospects and Bortles is not a good QB.  

Their decision at the time was terrible and it's even worse when you look at it now.

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Taylor was extremely agile+ explosive for his size and could run through people for fun. Fournettes contact balance and agility is very poor. 

He doesn't break anywhere near as many tackles as guy his size should

It wasn't obvious, Bortles was coming off of a great season and nearly everyone agreed that it looked like he'd turned the corner. The new contract was premature but based on what he'd done in 2017, they were probably actually making the financially smart move. It's easy to look back on it and say what should have been.

I don't know how you expect Fournette to break tackles when he's constantly got two or three guys meeting him at the line of scrimmage. Taylor wasn't particularly great at breaking tackles, his best asset was his deceptive speed but again, great line to open holes for a RB will tend to help with that.

(12-16-2018, 04:42 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 03:35 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]At the time it was plainly obvious they should have taken a QB over Fournette too. Watson and Mahomes were great prospects and Bortles is not a good QB.  

Their decision at the time was terrible and it's even worse when you look at it now.

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Taylor was extremely agile+ explosive for his size and could run through people for fun. Fournettes contact balance and agility is very poor. 

He doesn't break anywhere near as many tackles as guy his size should

It wasn't obvious, Bortles was coming off of a great season and nearly everyone agreed that it looked like he'd turned the corner. The new contract was premature but based on what he'd done in 2017, they were probably actually making the financially smart move. It's easy to look back on it and say what should have been.

I don't know how you expect Fournette to break tackles when he's constantly got two or three guys meeting him at the line of scrimmage. Taylor wasn't particularly great at breaking tackles, his best asset was his deceptive speed but again, great line to open holes for a RB will tend to help with that.

We're talking the Mahomes/Watson draft, that was after Bortles' 2016 season...which was one of the worst adjusted seasons in NFL history. It was obvious at the time.

And even if we were talking about 2017, Bortles' was slightly below average in 2017 not even close to great.

(12-16-2018, 05:03 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 04:42 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It wasn't obvious, Bortles was coming off of a great season and nearly everyone agreed that it looked like he'd turned the corner.  The new contract was premature but based on what he'd done in 2017, they were probably actually making the financially smart move. It's easy to look back on it and say what should have been.

I don't know how you expect Fournette to break tackles when he's constantly got two or three guys meeting him at the line of scrimmage. Taylor wasn't particularly great at breaking tackles, his best asset was his deceptive speed but again, great line to open holes for a RB will tend to help with that.

We're talking the Mahomes/Watson draft, that was after Bortles' 2016 season...which was one of the worst adjusted seasons in NFL history. It was obvious at the time.

And even if we were talking about 2017, Bortles' was slightly below average in 2017 not even close to great.

In 2017, you saw how he was playing at the end of the year. Those last few games and the playoffs are probably what convinced people he'd turned the corner. If you go back to 2016, there were obviously people in that building who thought he could still develop into a franchise QB. He did throw for nearly 4000 yards that year with 23 touchdowns. If that's one of the worst seasons in NFL history, I'm not sure what it would take to have a good season. My point is, second guessing is easy. Drafting in the NFL is a guessing game and even the best get it wrong as often as they get it right.

(12-15-2018, 03:28 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]Dave Caldwell doubles down on Blake Bortles because he was his draft pick. He knows this team was built on running the ball and defense. He didn’t bring any legitimate competition through free agency or the draft. He deserves to be fired. He’s whiffed too hard and often. It’s disgusting he still has a job.

I don't fully understand this logic.

Yes, I understand that QB is a glaring weakness for us.

But as I look at the standings, I see Atlanta (Matt Ryan), Detroit (Matt Stafford), Tampa (Jameis Winston and Fitz), and Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers) with QB situations better-if not much better- than ours, yet those teams have only one more win than we have.  Okay the Packers have one and a half more wins.

Looking further, the standings show there are teams like Denver, Miami and Baltimore with demonstrably inferior QBs to the teams I just listed above with demonstrably superior records to these same teams.

But it begs the question, is the difference between a great (or even good) QB and our QB worth only a game-game and a half in a double digit losing season?

It seems to me, these other teams (even excluding Tampa from the analysis) show that a good or even a great QB is no panacea for all that ails a team, conversely, a sufficiently stocked/healthy team that lacks the great QB can outperform the team with a great QB but little else.

With that in mind, I don't fully get the zeal to throw Caldwell under the bus for this season because we had Bortles under C, when there's no guarantee we would have done significantly better with a better QB, especially given our injuries along the offensive line.

Would we as a fan base be any less disappointed if we were sitting at 5-9 at this stage with a better QB?

(12-16-2018, 04:42 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 03:35 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]At the time it was plainly obvious they should have taken a QB over Fournette too. Watson and Mahomes were great prospects and Bortles is not a good QB.  

Their decision at the time was terrible and it's even worse when you look at it now.

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Taylor was extremely agile+ explosive for his size and could run through people for fun. Fournettes contact balance and agility is very poor. 

He doesn't break anywhere near as many tackles as guy his size should

It wasn't obvious, Bortles was coming off of a great season and nearly everyone agreed that it looked like he'd turned the corner.  The new contract was premature but based on what he'd done in 2017, they were probably actually making the financially smart move. It's easy to look back on it and say what should have been.

I don't know how you expect Fournette to break tackles when he's constantly got two or three guys meeting him at the line of scrimmage. Taylor wasn't particularly great at breaking tackles, his best asset was his deceptive speed but again, great line to open holes for a RB will tend to help with that.

Bortles was god awful in 2016. We had our shot to take our franchise QB at #4 but instead doubled down on Blake and here we are. It was a bad move at the time and its a bad move now.   

Breaking tackles isn't just trucking people. Fred broke arm tackle with ease and was hell for tacklers to bring down once he started moving. Fournette is not good at breaking arm tackles, his contact balance is very poor. Look at someone like Kareem Hunt, he's not as heavy as LF but he bounces off tacklers with ease because his contact balance is so good.

(12-15-2018, 09:57 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 09:44 PM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, the only way this team was going to improve the QB situation this past off-season was by absolutely murdering the cap for the foreseeable future and that just wasn't going to happen. Coughlin is a smart man, he knows why got fired after the 2002 and he already avoided the same mistake when he was in New York and now he's continuing that trend here as well. 

They'll most likely draft a new QB in 2019, hope it's not a bust, and take advantage of that sweet rookie contract to lock up the young stars on defense.

Exactly.  All these hand wringing and 20/20 hindsight post after last years success and this years disappointment are pointless.  The organization attempted to build on last years success with the pieces we had, added a few perceived improvements, rolled the dice and lost.  Eleven months ago no one was complaining about the state of the franchise.

While I have not done a survey or census, I distinctly recall there were numerous posters who were advocating the team upgrade the QB position this past offseason.

However, as I pointed out earlier, signing Cousins or trading for Alex Smith to replace Bortles this year would not have made much difference in the team's fortunes in light of the injuries on the offensive side of the ball.

MJD carried a horrendous offence and got big numbers. LF unfortunately isn't in that kind of league. He's a good back though but we were spoiled with back to back elite backs

(12-16-2018, 05:54 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2018, 09:57 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly.  All these hand wringing and 20/20 hindsight post after last years success and this years disappointment are pointless.  The organization attempted to build on last years success with the pieces we had, added a few perceived improvements, rolled the dice and lost.  Eleven months ago no one was complaining about the state of the franchise.

While I have not done a survey or census, I distinctly recall there were numerous posters who were advocating the team upgrade the QB position this past offseason.

However, as I pointed out earlier, signing Cousins or trading for Alex Smith to replace Bortles this year would not have made much difference in the team's fortunes in light of the injuries on the offensive side of the ball.

Exactly and it would've meant we would have to let someone on defense walk in FA because we didn't have the cap space to sign them. Cousins' cap hit is $24M-$29M-$31M, Smith's cap hit is more reasonable because it's a longer contract but it's still a $20M+/year deal after this season.

Everytime Alex Smith has looked good in his career he's been replaced by a guy who then started to look much better with the same weapons.

Is he the most overrated qb around?

(12-16-2018, 09:46 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-16-2018, 09:19 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Big, strong and you forgot freakishly fast.

Oh yeah, that less than 1% of his runs where he goes untouched and can build up speed for 90 yards. Yeah, he's freakishly fast in that scenario. The other 99%+ of his carries he is not fast at all. I'll stand by my point that his speed in no way compares to Taylor. Strength, sure...that was implied in size. I readily admit he's a glorified short yardage back.

I don’t think any team or anybody could replace a back like Fred Taylor. He missed 55 games and still retired amongst the greats. 

He could literally score from anywhere on the field and on any play. 1 crease and he’s gone. 14 for 176. 

If you look at his playoff game against Miami, he did things that no other player could ever do, including Emmitt Smith. Barry could.

What I’m trying to get at, is Taylor could have been top 3 if he wasn’t hurt early on, so if Coughlin was trying to put Fournette next to Taylor then that’s on Tom.