(12-19-2018, 05:20 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]The overreaction on LF is bordering lunacy at this point, starting to think ya'll are trolling or some of you really are missing something very obvious about our team.
Our offensive coordinator sucks [BLEEP].
Our QB sucks [BLEEP].
Our Offensive line sucks [BLEEP].
Barry Freakin Sanders would look average on this team. Ya'll tripping. LF was a bad pick because of his position and our need at QB. Not because he's a bad RB. Is he the best? No obviously there's better RBs in the league, notably Kamara who was taken in the same draft 2 rounds later. But hindsight always 20/20.
Put Kamara behind our line and he already died.
(12-19-2018, 05:20 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]The overreaction on LF is bordering lunacy at this point, starting to think ya'll are trolling or some of you really are missing something very obvious about our team.
Our offensive coordinator sucks [BLEEP].
Our QB sucks [BLEEP].
Our Offensive line sucks [BLEEP].
Barry Freakin Sanders would look average on this team. Ya'll tripping. LF was a bad pick because of his position and our need at QB. Not because he's a bad RB. Is he the best? No obviously there's better RBs in the league, notably Kamara who was taken in the same draft 2 rounds later. But hindsight always 20/20.
Saquan Barkley is playing behind equally bad Line and look at what he's doing. When you take RB that high, you expect that kind of production that Barkley is giving, not what we're seeing behind LF.
(12-19-2018, 06:02 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2018, 05:20 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]The overreaction on LF is bordering lunacy at this point, starting to think ya'll are trolling or some of you really are missing something very obvious about our team.
Our offensive coordinator sucks [BLEEP].
Our QB sucks [BLEEP].
Our Offensive line sucks [BLEEP].
Barry Freakin Sanders would look average on this team. Ya'll tripping. LF was a bad pick because of his position and our need at QB. Not because he's a bad RB. Is he the best? No obviously there's better RBs in the league, notably Kamara who was taken in the same draft 2 rounds later. But hindsight always 20/20.
I agree with all those points. The OC sucks, the QB sucks and the Oline is decimated by injuries.
Doesn't change the fact that LF hasn't outshined any other RB on the team dealing with the same crappy team around them.
In fact, a PS player did better than he did in the limited time he was out there. Am I saying he's "better"? No. But I'm saying LF will NEVER be great based on the fact that he can't surpass a PS player. He should DESTROY that guys stats. And Yeldon's stats. But he hasn't.
Just stop. We crowning Williams saying Fournette can't surpass him after going 5 for 32... Now I know ya'll trolling. Yeldon's had a great year though, but that's unsurprising considering his skill set and the state of our line.
(12-19-2018, 07:21 PM)KingJones Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2018, 05:20 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]The overreaction on LF is bordering lunacy at this point, starting to think ya'll are trolling or some of you really are missing something very obvious about our team.
Our offensive coordinator sucks [BLEEP].
Our QB sucks [BLEEP].
Our Offensive line sucks [BLEEP].
Barry Freakin Sanders would look average on this team. Ya'll tripping. LF was a bad pick because of his position and our need at QB. Not because he's a bad RB. Is he the best? No obviously there's better RBs in the league, notably Kamara who was taken in the same draft 2 rounds later. But hindsight always 20/20.
Saquan Barkley is playing behind equally bad Line and look at what he's doing. When you take RB that high, you expect that kind of production that Barkley is giving, not what we're seeing behind LF.
Yeah but Saquon was taken with the 2nd overall pick and jags picked at 29th. What are you suggesting we trade up for Barkley? Also Considering we're starting linemen that couldn't even make the roster for the Giants, I'd say our Oline is worse, much worse.
(12-19-2018, 05:20 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]The overreaction on LF is bordering lunacy at this point, starting to think ya'll are trolling or some of you really are missing something very obvious about our team.
Our offensive coordinator sucks [BLEEP].
Our QB sucks [BLEEP].
Our Offensive line sucks [BLEEP].
Barry Freakin Sanders would look average on this team. Ya'll tripping. LF was a bad pick because of his position and our need at QB. Not because he's a bad RB. Is he the best? No obviously there's better RBs in the league, notably Kamara who was taken in the same draft 2 rounds later. But hindsight always 20/20.
When LF was in camp 2 years ago, the local media couldn't stop talking about how he was clearly better than every other RB in camp....special. I think next year will tell his story. He was hurt all season, plus had garbage OL and QB. I'm not convinced he's a total bust yet.
LF and we draft Darrell Henderson
I feel like we have a slightly faster, weaker version of Brandon Jacobs in LF.
(12-20-2018, 12:17 AM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2018, 06:02 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all those points. The OC sucks, the QB sucks and the Oline is decimated by injuries.
Doesn't change the fact that LF hasn't outshined any other RB on the team dealing with the same crappy team around them.
In fact, a PS player did better than he did in the limited time he was out there. Am I saying he's "better"? No. But I'm saying LF will NEVER be great based on the fact that he can't surpass a PS player. He should DESTROY that guys stats. And Yeldon's stats. But he hasn't.
Just stop. We crowning Williams saying Fournette can't surpass him after going 5 for 32... Now I know ya'll trolling. Yeldon's had a great year though, but that's unsurprising considering his skill set and the state of our line.
(12-19-2018, 07:21 PM)KingJones Wrote: [ -> ]Saquan Barkley is playing behind equally bad Line and look at what he's doing. When you take RB that high, you expect that kind of production that Barkley is giving, not what we're seeing behind LF.
Yeah but Saquon was taken with the 2nd overall pick and jags picked at 29th. What are you suggesting we trade up for Barkley? Also Considering we're starting linemen that couldn't even make the roster for the Giants, I'd say our Oline is worse, much worse.
You're missing the point so I'll help you.
When you take a RB in the top 5, they need to be transcendent with the ability to produce no matter what. Barkley is playing with a god awful QB (Just like LF) and an extremely below average Oline (just like LF). For most of the year, the only Olineman to not really play was Cam Robinson. Barkley is making plays out of nothing while LF is making nothing out of nothing. He's only as good as his Oline.
LF is scheduled to make a base salary of $2.9m next year, with $4.5m in signing bonus amortization, for a total cap hit of $7.4m in 2019. If released, he has a dead money cap hit of close to $9.0m.
Carlos Hyde is scheduled to make a base salary of $3.25m, no bonus amortization, and a roster/workout bonus of $1.5m if they decide to keep him, for a total cap hit of $4.75m. If released, he will have no dead money hit, but a sting knowing that the organization gave up a 5th round draft choice for him.
Corey Grant will be a free agent. He was making a base salary of $2.9m this year.
TJ Yeldon will be a free agent. He was making a base salary of $1.24m this year, and counted $1.88 against this year's cap when figuring in signing bonus amortization.
David Williams has a base salary and cap hit of $570k in 2019, and no dead money if released.
Financially, LF will be on the roster at least one more year. With LF's injury prone ways, and the 5th round draft choice investment, having Hyde on the roster for another season seems likely. I don't believe TC or DC gave up a 5th unless they planned to keep him more than just the remainder of the 2018 season. They will make an offer to retain the versatile Yeldon , but I think some team will pay him more than the Jag's will be willing to pay (especially if they keep the expensive Hyde). Grant suffered a Lisfranc foot injury, that if significant displacement occurred, it can take more than a year to fully recover. Without knowing the extent of the injury, I think they try to bring Grant back on a less expensive prove-it contract, but again I think some team will give him more money and promised opportunity and he will be gone. David Williams will battle for the 3rd down back spot with a late round or undrafted rookie.
(12-20-2018, 10:35 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]LF is scheduled to make a base salary of $2.9m next year, with $4.5m in signing bonus amortization, for a total cap hit of $7.4m in 2019. If released, he has a dead money cap hit of close to $9.0m.
Carlos Hyde is scheduled to make a base salary of $3.25m, no bonus amortization, and a roster/workout bonus of $1.5m if they decide to keep him, for a total cap hit of $4.75m. If released, he will have no dead money hit, but a sting knowing that the organization gave up a 5th round draft choice for him.
Corey Grant will be a free agent. He was making a base salary of $2.9m this year.
TJ Yeldon will be a free agent. He was making a base salary of $1.24m this year, and counted $1.88 against this year's cap when figuring in signing bonus amortization.
David Williams has a base salary and cap hit of $570k in 2019, and no dead money if released.
Financially, LF will be on the roster at least one more year. With LF's injury prone ways, and the 5th round draft choice investment, having Hyde on the roster for another season seems likely. I don't believe TC or DC gave up a 5th unless they planned to keep him more than just the remainder of the 2018 season. They will make an offer to retain the versatile Yeldon , but I think some team will pay him more than the Jag's will be willing to pay (especially if they keep the expensive Hyde). Grant suffered a Lisfranc foot injury, that if significant displacement occurred, it can take more than a year to fully recover. Without knowing the extent of the injury, I think they try to bring Grant back on a less expensive prove-it contract, but again I think some team will give him more money and promised opportunity and he will be gone. David Williams will battle for the 3rd down back spot with a late round or undrafted rookie.
All great points but TC and/or DC may not be here next year. New guy comes in and doesn't care about that.
(12-19-2018, 02:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2018, 02:45 PM)KingJones Wrote: [ -> ]It's more of Hyde not wanting to be here. He wants to be a feature back but that won't happen if LF is healthy.
He's under contract. What he wants doesn't matter. If he wants to start and they don't release him - then he's got to beat out Fournette to start.
Considering his benching, and his $5M dead money savings next year if they move on, I suspect he's gone. I know, I know. 5th rounder and all. It is what it is. He clearly didn't get anyone excited enough to get more snaps, and was flat out a healthy scratch so they could get a look at a guy plucked of Denver's practice squad. I think the signs are pretty clear there.
I do think, barring some significant trade offer for Fournette the team can't refuse, he's the starter next year.
I think you might actually see the team low ball Grant to keep him around since he's an injury concern now. With a new offensive coordinator next year, he might actually benefit.
I think they really like Yeldon and what he offers in the offense when everything is clicking. I think they probably make an effort to keep him around, but my guess is that some other team is going to outbid them for his services.
It's almost a given at this point that the team will come back next year with David Williams on the roster, if for no other reason, for depth.
(12-20-2018, 10:48 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 10:35 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]LF is scheduled to make a base salary of $2.9m next year, with $4.5m in signing bonus amortization, for a total cap hit of $7.4m in 2019. If released, he has a dead money cap hit of close to $9.0m.
Carlos Hyde is scheduled to make a base salary of $3.25m, no bonus amortization, and a roster/workout bonus of $1.5m if they decide to keep him, for a total cap hit of $4.75m. If released, he will have no dead money hit, but a sting knowing that the organization gave up a 5th round draft choice for him.
Corey Grant will be a free agent. He was making a base salary of $2.9m this year.
TJ Yeldon will be a free agent. He was making a base salary of $1.24m this year, and counted $1.88 against this year's cap when figuring in signing bonus amortization.
David Williams has a base salary and cap hit of $570k in 2019, and no dead money if released.
Financially, LF will be on the roster at least one more year. With LF's injury prone ways, and the 5th round draft choice investment, having Hyde on the roster for another season seems likely. I don't believe TC or DC gave up a 5th unless they planned to keep him more than just the remainder of the 2018 season. They will make an offer to retain the versatile Yeldon , but I think some team will pay him more than the Jag's will be willing to pay (especially if they keep the expensive Hyde). Grant suffered a Lisfranc foot injury, that if significant displacement occurred, it can take more than a year to fully recover. Without knowing the extent of the injury, I think they try to bring Grant back on a less expensive prove-it contract, but again I think some team will give him more money and promised opportunity and he will be gone. David Williams will battle for the 3rd down back spot with a late round or undrafted rookie.
All great points but TC and/or DC may not be here next year. New guy comes in and doesn't care about that.
I think it's a given Caldwell is gone because someone in the front office has to take the fall for this year. He's been circling the proverbial drain for a couple of years now, and with the Bortles debacle coming to an end, so will his tenure as GM.
Coughlin is safe. Khan loves the guy.
(12-20-2018, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 12:17 AM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]Just stop. We crowning Williams saying Fournette can't surpass him after going 5 for 32... Now I know ya'll trolling. Yeldon's had a great year though, but that's unsurprising considering his skill set and the state of our line.
Yeah but Saquon was taken with the 2nd overall pick and jags picked at 29th. What are you suggesting we trade up for Barkley? Also Considering we're starting linemen that couldn't even make the roster for the Giants, I'd say our Oline is worse, much worse.
You're missing the point so I'll help you.
When you take a RB in the top 5, they need to be transcendent with the ability to produce no matter what. Barkley is playing with a god awful QB (Just like LF) and an extremely below average Oline (just like LF). For most of the year, the only Olineman to not really play was Cam Robinson. Barkley is making plays out of nothing while LF is making nothing out of nothing. He's only as good as his Oline.
Think you're being obtuse. Barkley is better than Fournette, but so what? Fournette is a bust because a player that was taken 2 picks earlier than him, a year later is better? What does it matter that Barkley is better? Does a top 5 pick have to be a future hall of famer to not be labeled a bust? Does the fact that Barkley was taken 2 picks higher than Fournette afford him a little bit of room to be better without Fournette being labeled a bust? If a RB is taken first overall next year turns out better than Barkley, does that mean he's a bust? We can point at a bunch of players that are better than on our roster, so I'm not sure if I'm missing the point or you're just looking for reasons to whine.
Our QB is WORSE than Eli Manning.
Our OLINE is WORSE than the Giants.
Our OC is WORSE than the Giants.
So our RB being worse than the Giants just seems par for the course. But I think the comparison to Barkley is ridiculous because we never even had a chance to get him, so what does it matter? Why be bitter than Fournette is not Barkley when we didn't take Fournette over Barkley?
(12-20-2018, 12:12 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]...
When you take a RB in the top 5, they need to be transcendent with the ability to produce no matter what...
... Why be bitter than Fournette is not Barkley when we didn't take Fournette over Barkley?
It's not that.
It's being bitter that the Jags took a RB with a top ten pick who had red flags for injury and an incomplete skill set.
Barkley just happens to be an example of the very rare RB worthy of being selected that early in the draft.
Fournette is an example of the kind you let someone else overdraft.
FTR - I think 27 will be very productive for this team with marginal upgrades to the OC/QB/OL.
I just don't think he will ever be worth that pick and expect he'll continue to miss meaningful time to injury.
(12-20-2018, 12:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 12:12 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]... Why be bitter than Fournette is not Barkley when we didn't take Fournette over Barkley?
It's not that.
It's being bitter that the Jags took a RB with a top ten pick who had red flags for injury and an incomplete skill set.
Barkley just happens to be an example of the very rare RB worthy of being selected that early in the draft.
Fournette is an example of the kind you let someone else overdraft.
FTR - I think 27 will be very productive for this team with marginal upgrades to the OC/QB/OL.
I just don't think he will ever be worth that pick and expect he'll continue to miss meaningful time to injury.
I mean, I agree I didn't like the pick. But I don't think it's fair to label him a bust two years into his career when he had an excellent season behind a good offensive line and had a subpar season behind a really [BLEEP] line. It's important to note, that while I agree Barkley is better than Fournette, the giants also use him differently than we use Fournette. In part, due to skill set, but also because the OC is trying to shield Eli. Every other play is a dump off to Barkley, something we split between multiple backs on our offense. He's really good, but he's also having his stats heavily padded because Odell Beckham and Barkley is literally the only thing going on that offense and Eli can't throw more than 10 yards.
(12-20-2018, 12:22 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 12:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]It's not that.
...
FTR - I think 27 will be very productive for this team with marginal upgrades to the OC/QB/OL.
I just don't think he will ever be worth that pick and expect he'll continue to miss meaningful time to injury.
I mean, I agree I didn't like the pick. But I don't think it's fair to label him a bust two years into his career...
I agree with this. Not a bust. Just overdrafted.
I remain cautiously optimistic he'll produce another good season for the Jags before probably moving on in FA.
If healthy, and with our oline back regardless of our qb i anticipate LF27 returning to form. I think people are just looking for someone to blame. Fournette is very good when hes not being hit in the backfield every play bc we have no interior oline
(12-20-2018, 12:12 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You're missing the point so I'll help you.
When you take a RB in the top 5, they need to be transcendent with the ability to produce no matter what. Barkley is playing with a god awful QB (Just like LF) and an extremely below average Oline (just like LF). For most of the year, the only Olineman to not really play was Cam Robinson. Barkley is making plays out of nothing while LF is making nothing out of nothing. He's only as good as his Oline.
Think you're being obtuse. Barkley is better than Fournette, but so what? Fournette is a bust because a player that was taken 2 picks earlier than him, a year later is better? What does it matter that Barkley is better? Does a top 5 pick have to be a future hall of famer to not be labeled a bust? Does the fact that Barkley was taken 2 picks higher than Fournette afford him a little bit of room to be better without Fournette being labeled a bust? If a RB is taken first overall next year turns out better than Barkley, does that mean he's a bust? We can point at a bunch of players that are better than on our roster, so I'm not sure if I'm missing the point or you're just looking for reasons to whine.
Our QB is WORSE than Eli Manning.
Our OLINE is WORSE than the Giants.
Our OC is WORSE than the Giants.
So our RB being worse than the Giants just seems par for the course. But I think the comparison to Barkley is ridiculous because we never even had a chance to get him, so what does it matter? Why be bitter than Fournette is not Barkley when we didn't take Fournette over Barkley?
I never said he was a bust but he's not producing like a top 5 running back. Zeke, Gurley, CMac and Barkley are all RBs taken in the top 10 and Fournette isn't even close to them. You should never use a top 10 pick on a RB BUT if you do, they need to be elite. Fournette isn't.
(12-20-2018, 01:04 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-20-2018, 12:12 PM)Inziladun Wrote: [ -> ]Think you're being obtuse. Barkley is better than Fournette, but so what? Fournette is a bust because a player that was taken 2 picks earlier than him, a year later is better? What does it matter that Barkley is better? Does a top 5 pick have to be a future hall of famer to not be labeled a bust? Does the fact that Barkley was taken 2 picks higher than Fournette afford him a little bit of room to be better without Fournette being labeled a bust? If a RB is taken first overall next year turns out better than Barkley, does that mean he's a bust? We can point at a bunch of players that are better than on our roster, so I'm not sure if I'm missing the point or you're just looking for reasons to whine.
Our QB is WORSE than Eli Manning.
Our OLINE is WORSE than the Giants.
Our OC is WORSE than the Giants.
So our RB being worse than the Giants just seems par for the course. But I think the comparison to Barkley is ridiculous because we never even had a chance to get him, so what does it matter? Why be bitter than Fournette is not Barkley when we didn't take Fournette over Barkley?
I never said he was a bust but he's not producing like a top 5 running back. Zeke, Gurley, CMac and Barkley are all RBs taken in the top 10 and Fournette isn't even close to them. You should never use a top 10 pick on a RB BUT if you do, they need to be elite. Fournette isn't.
And his skillset preclude him from ever reaching elite status.
Fast & Strong.
Can't move side to side. Doesn't have good field vision...
All that equals average NFL RB
(12-20-2018, 12:40 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]If healthy, and with our oline back regardless of our qb i anticipate LF27 returning to form. I think people are just looking for someone to blame. Fournette is very good when hes not being hit in the backfield every play bc we have no interior oline
"Returning to form" is the revisionist history that people have qualms with.
Fournette, a cheap FA Veteran, a Draft pick and David Williams is what I think we roll into training camp with next season. Possibly Grant as well on a very cheap 1 year prove it contract, to see how he comes back from that injury.