(01-05-2019, 12:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:06 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]None of the QBs are great this year. Depending on who the OC is, I could see Blake having a spot.
LF needs space to be good, which you can't get without spreading the field and throwing it. So spread the field and have Bortles run RPO with LF. If the defense still stacks the box, find a way to fix Blake enough to throw mid to deep passes.
...
You figure year six of trying that is suddenly going to be the one that works?
Fix and turn him into a top 15 QB, nope. Fix him in that you give him 1 read where if the safety is there throw it to #2 and if he isn't there you throw it to #1 deep. Then if he doesn't throw it, tell him you are going to call a bunch of QB dives until he gets tired of being crushed.
Unfortunately the available options aren't much better and Foles is going to get a huge contract. So they have to have a plan where he is still the best option at least for the start of the season.
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(01-05-2019, 12:58 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You figure year six of trying that is suddenly going to be the one that works?
Fix and turn him into a top 15 QB, nope. Fix him in that you give him 1 read where if the safety is there throw it to #2 and if he isn't there you throw it to #1 deep. Then if he doesn't throw it, tell him you are going to call a bunch of QB dives until he gets tired of being crushed.
Unfortunately the available options aren't much better and Foles is going to get a huge contract. So they have to have a plan where he is still the best option at least for the start of the season.
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You don’t think 4 different OCs have tried to help Blake make reads?
The dude is gone. There aren’t many teams out there in need of a QB so maybe these FA QBs won’t be as expensive since they’re not in demand. Draft Haskins.
Try and be like the Steelers when Ben was a rookie. Then hope Haskins can begin to carry the team on his own like Ben.
(01-05-2019, 09:06 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:58 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Fix and turn him into a top 15 QB, nope. Fix him in that you give him 1 read where if the safety is there throw it to #2 and if he isn't there you throw it to #1 deep. Then if he doesn't throw it, tell him you are going to call a bunch of QB dives until he gets tired of being crushed.
Unfortunately the available options aren't much better and Foles is going to get a huge contract. So they have to have a plan where he is still the best option at least for the start of the season.
Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
You don’t think 4 different OCs have tried to help Blake make reads?
The dude is gone. There aren’t many teams out there in need of a QB so maybe these FA QBs won’t be as expensive since they’re not in demand. Draft Haskins.
Try and be like the Steelers when Ben was a rookie. Then hope Haskins can begin to carry the team on his own like Ben.
I'm in total agreement with you. Haskins is really the only quarterback in this draft who can become elite. Depending on how much Haskins impresses teams during combine and individual workouts, the Jags will likely have to move up 3-5 spots and part with their 2020 1st round pick in addition to one of their 3rd's. If this isn't enough, they can throw in Fournette. Forget about Lock, Jones and Grier. None of these guys will be top 15 quarterbacks in the NFL.
I think they almost have to spend big on Foles. Even at the expense of losing a defensive star or two. I don’t watch college ball, so I can’t really speak for Haskins, Grier or Lock. But from the sounds of it, Haskins may cost too much to move up and get. Plus that leaves you with starting the rookie. Based on what Shad said after the Houston game, I’m not sure the FO has time for a project or a mediocre stop gap. Whatever they do, it needs to right the ship next year.
(01-05-2019, 10:16 AM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]I think they almost have to spend big on Foles. Even at the expense of losing a defensive star or two. I don’t watch college ball, so I can’t really speak for Haskins, Grier or Lock. But from the sounds of it, Haskins may cost too much to move up and get. Plus that leaves you with starting the rookie. Based on what Shad said after the Houston game, I’m not sure the FO has time for a project or a mediocre stop gap. Whatever they do, it needs to right the ship next year.
If they manage to pick up Foles they're basically committing to him to be the franchise QB for a longer term (due to the $ that will require). Doesn't prevent them from going after a rookie this year or next, but it becomes a lesser priority. I think a better idea is to get one of the second tier QBs as a stop gap and then go after a prospect in each of the next two years (unless they draft a guy this year that exceeds expectations).
Whatever the Jags do, they should not give up any future draft picks. The 2020 draft will be loaded with QB's so that's the best time to draft one, not reach for a prospect this year.
Also, do not overpay for Foles. It'll be just like the Vikings with Cousins. The Jags need cap space to re-sign their young defensive stars that they drafted. You build a team through the draft and re-signing your own talent, not overpaying for free agents.
They'd be better off with Fitzpatrick or Tyrod Taylor for a year to get them by this year, and either trading back for more picks or taking the BAP at number 7.
(01-05-2019, 11:31 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever the Jags do, they should not give up any future draft picks. The 2020 draft will be loaded with QB's so that's the best time to draft one, not reach for a prospect this year.
Also, do not overpay for Foles. It'll be just like the Vikings with Cousins. The Jags need cap space to re-sign their young defensive stars that they drafted. You build a team through the draft and re-signing your own talent, not overpaying for free agents.
They'd be better off with Fitzpatrick or Tyrod Taylor for a year to get them by this year, and either trading back for more picks or taking the BAP at number 7.
You sort-of had me until Tyrod Taylor came up.
If the Jags sign that guy and don't draft a QB early - I'll seriously shift from being the most harcore fan to a very casual observer until TC and Caldwell are both run out of town. That would be a grave error.
Now if they sign him and draft a guy - then the drafted guy will just end up starting by week four.
It'll still be stupid, but not as stupid. Maybe I'd still attend games.
Signing Taylor would be operating from the same mindset that made them double down on Bortles and they damn well better know that was a dumb move by now.
(not attacking you - just dislike that players skill set)
(12-31-2018, 11:32 AM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ]1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. Maybe
STAY AWAY FROM HASKINS!
It's no use. Any QB in this year's draft will not succeed starting right out of the gate. If the FO could find a way to have them sit this year then maybe a few of them would pan out somehow. The safest bet is Tua in 2020, but almost no one on this board wants that. They are too delusional to think rationally anymore. In fact they've never been rational from the start. Smh.
(01-05-2019, 09:06 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:58 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Fix and turn him into a top 15 QB, nope. Fix him in that you give him 1 read where if the safety is there throw it to #2 and if he isn't there you throw it to #1 deep. Then if he doesn't throw it, tell him you are going to call a bunch of QB dives until he gets tired of being crushed.
Unfortunately the available options aren't much better and Foles is going to get a huge contract. So they have to have a plan where he is still the best option at least for the start of the season.
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You don’t think 4 different OCs have tried to help Blake make reads?
The dude is gone. There aren’t many teams out there in need of a QB so maybe these FA QBs won’t be as expensive since they’re not in demand. Draft Haskins.
Try and be like the Steelers when Ben was a rookie. Then hope Haskins can begin to carry the team on his own like Ben.
I guess you don't read.
The college QBs aren't starting day one, they aren't good enough. If the Jags don't over spend on Foles, the rest of the QBs are the same or worse than Blake.
So what is the plan if they don't get Foles? They have to find a way to win now with Blake since there is a good chance he is still the starter at the beginning of the season. Unless the plan is to tank and draft another QB next draft also.
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(01-05-2019, 10:28 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 10:16 AM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]I think they almost have to spend big on Foles. Even at the expense of losing a defensive star or two. I don’t watch college ball, so I can’t really speak for Haskins, Grier or Lock. But from the sounds of it, Haskins may cost too much to move up and get. Plus that leaves you with starting the rookie. Based on what Shad said after the Houston game, I’m not sure the FO has time for a project or a mediocre stop gap. Whatever they do, it needs to right the ship next year.
If they manage to pick up Foles they're basically committing to him to be the franchise QB for a longer term (due to the $ that will require). Doesn't prevent them from going after a rookie this year or next, but it becomes a lesser priority. I think a better idea is to get one of the second tier QBs as a stop gap and then go after a prospect in each of the next two years (unless they draft a guy this year that exceeds expectations).
If they can't get Haskins I really like this plan.
(01-05-2019, 11:46 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 11:31 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever the Jags do, they should not give up any future draft picks. The 2020 draft will be loaded with QB's so that's the best time to draft one, not reach for a prospect this year.
Also, do not overpay for Foles. It'll be just like the Vikings with Cousins. The Jags need cap space to re-sign their young defensive stars that they drafted. You build a team through the draft and re-signing your own talent, not overpaying for free agents.
They'd be better off with Fitzpatrick or Tyrod Taylor for a year to get them by this year, and either trading back for more picks or taking the BAP at number 7.
You sort-of had me until Tyrod Taylor came up.
If the Jags sign that guy and don't draft a QB early - I'll seriously shift from being the most harcore fan to a very casual observer until TC and Caldwell are both run out of town. That would be a grave error.
Now if they sign him and draft a guy - then the drafted guy will just end up starting by week four.
It'll still be stupid, but not as stupid. Maybe I'd still attend games.
Signing Taylor would be operating from the same mindset that made them double down on Bortles and they damn well better know that was a dumb move by now.
(not attacking you - just dislike that players skill set)
Fair enough - it's not that I think Tyrod Taylor is that good, but at least he doesn't turn the ball over like Bortles did and he would fit into the run-first mentality of TC. Not that I think that is the best strategy in a pass-first league, but Taylor fills in until Haskins/Lock/Grier are ready or they wait until 2020 to draft their QB.
The problem the Jags have had is always trying to reach for that one guy to put them over the top, instead of letting the draft fall to them like the Steelers/Patriots do. I'm more concerned about long-term success than going for broke for one season.
(01-05-2019, 01:18 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 11:46 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You sort-of had me until Tyrod Taylor came up.
If the Jags sign that guy and don't draft a QB early - I'll seriously shift from being the most harcore fan to a very casual observer until TC and Caldwell are both run out of town. That would be a grave error.
Now if they sign him and draft a guy - then the drafted guy will just end up starting by week four.
It'll still be stupid, but not as stupid. Maybe I'd still attend games.
Signing Taylor would be operating from the same mindset that made them double down on Bortles and they damn well better know that was a dumb move by now.
(not attacking you - just dislike that players skill set)
Fair enough - it's not that I think Tyrod Taylor is that good, but at least he doesn't turn the ball over like Bortles did and he would fit into the run-first mentality of TC. Not that I think that is the best strategy in a pass-first league, but Taylor fills in until Haskins/Lock/Grier are ready or they wait until 2020 to draft their QB.
The problem the Jags have had is always trying to reach for that one guy to put them over the top, instead of letting the draft fall to them like the Steelers/Patriots do. I'm more concerned about long-term success than going for broke for one season.
I hear you.
This crop of QBs has to give you some pause about reaching for a guy out of need.
I personally feel the top three candidates could all represent an easy upgrade to the position for the Jags.
But yes, there is danger they may not be ready to start early on and there may be better candidates next year.
In a perfect world - I'd love a trade down to take a QB like Grier in the mid first and gain extra picks to round out the line, TEs and receivers.
Wouldn't have to prevent another QB pick in 2020 if the 2019 draft pick isn't showing the progress they want.
Though it would make taking one there a bit less likely.
(01-05-2019, 12:29 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 09:06 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You don’t think 4 different OCs have tried to help Blake make reads?
The dude is gone. There aren’t many teams out there in need of a QB so maybe these FA QBs won’t be as expensive since they’re not in demand. Draft Haskins.
Try and be like the Steelers when Ben was a rookie. Then hope Haskins can begin to carry the team on his own like Ben.
I guess you don't read.
The college QBs aren't starting day one, they aren't good enough. If the Jags don't over spend on Foles, the rest of the QBs are the same or worse than Blake.
So what is the plan if they don't get Foles? They have to find a way to win now with Blake since there is a good chance he is still the starter at the beginning of the season. Unless the plan is to tank and draft another QB next draft also.
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Lol “can’t read”. Ok.
If they can’t get Foles? I don’t know.... get someone else? Why do you think Foles would succeed here? It appears the only time he plays well is under Andy Reid or a Reid disciple. That’s not Marrone.
And YOU may not think Haskins can start right away but I actually think he can. Time will tell I guess.
(01-05-2019, 01:30 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 01:18 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough - it's not that I think Tyrod Taylor is that good, but at least he doesn't turn the ball over like Bortles did and he would fit into the run-first mentality of TC. Not that I think that is the best strategy in a pass-first league, but Taylor fills in until Haskins/Lock/Grier are ready or they wait until 2020 to draft their QB.
The problem the Jags have had is always trying to reach for that one guy to put them over the top, instead of letting the draft fall to them like the Steelers/Patriots do. I'm more concerned about long-term success than going for broke for one season.
I hear you.
This crop of QBs has to give you some pause about reaching for a guy out of need.
I personally feel the top three candidates could all represent an easy upgrade to the position for the Jags.
But yes, there is danger they may not be ready to start early on and there may be better candidates next year.
In a perfect world - I'd love a trade down to take a QB like Grier in the mid first and gain extra picks to round out the line, TEs and receivers.
Wouldn't have to prevent another QB pick in 2020 if the 2019 draft pick isn't showing the progress they want.
Though it would make taking one there a bit less likely.
I mean you can’t put all the eggs in the 2020 basket. What if Tua and Fromm stay in school? Then what? The Jags would have punted in 2019 and 2020. So it’s in to 2021 with no young QB on the roster? Seems suspect.
(01-05-2019, 03:02 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2019, 01:30 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I hear you.
This crop of QBs has to give you some pause about reaching for a guy out of need.
I personally feel the top three candidates could all represent an easy upgrade to the position for the Jags.
But yes, there is danger they may not be ready to start early on and there may be better candidates next year.
In a perfect world - I'd love a trade down to take a QB like Grier in the mid first and gain extra picks to round out the line, TEs and receivers.
Wouldn't have to prevent another QB pick in 2020 if the 2019 draft pick isn't showing the progress they want.
Though it would make taking one there a bit less likely.
I mean you can’t put all the eggs in the 2020 basket. What if Tua and Fromm stay in school? Then what? The Jags would have punted in 2019 and 2020. So it’s in to 2021 with no young QB on the roster? Seems suspect.
I think the Jags absolutely have to draft a QB early in this draft. Whether that's at #7 - with a trade down in the first - or at #38.
They need to get a guy that they feel had a chance to upgrade the position. What they do in FA will impact this, but outside of swinging for the fences in FA - I think they should target a rookie QB that has a solid chance of starting some games in year one. For me - that means Haskins or Grier with Lock a lesser somewhat possibility as he'll need time IMO.
My post was simply acknowledging the argument about this not being a deep class and featuring guys with some question marks.
A bridge QB in free agency and an early round rookie are what I believe the team is destined for - and I'm totally good with that.
(01-05-2019, 12:58 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You figure year six of trying that is suddenly going to be the one that works?
Fix and turn him into a top 15 QB, nope. Fix him in that you give him 1 read where if the safety is there throw it to #2 and if he isn't there you throw it to #1 deep. Then if he doesn't throw it, tell him you are going to call a bunch of QB dives until he gets tired of being crushed.
Unfortunately the available options aren't much better and Foles is going to get a huge contract. So they have to have a plan where he is still the best option at least for the start of the season.
Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
I don't think so; rookie QBs are starting to offer at LEAST the level of play that BB can. And, without question a good QB can rock it by year 2. Imagine if this team had a Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, Mayfield or even Trubisky? IF they finally make a good choice on QB in the draft, they don't need BB around. Dump that trash.
(01-05-2019, 03:02 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:29 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]I guess you don't read.
Lol “can’t read”. Ok.
Anybody else catch the irony here?
(01-05-2019, 12:09 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2018, 11:32 AM)Jay Carter 904 Wrote: [ -> ]1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. Maybe
STAY AWAY FROM HASKINS!
It's no use. Any QB in this year's draft will not succeed starting right out of the gate. If the FO could find a way to have them sit this year then maybe a few of them would pan out somehow. The safest bet is Tua in 2020, but almost no one on this board wants that. They are too delusional to think rationally anymore. In fact they've never been rational from the start. Smh.
The biggest worry about Tua is his durability. Especially in the NFL and with a Jags front office that cannot consistently field a good pass blocking offensive line. Plus while he has avoid tipped balls in college, but I'm sick of seeing 2-3 every game right now by the Jags. Would be incredibly annoying if his height leads to that in the NFL.
I think the biggest thing Haskins (or any of the other prospects in the 2019 draft) will have to show scouts will be the one-on-one meetings with teams especially when they grill him about talking about the plays he ran at OSU and coverage looks on film. It's what got Mayfield to jump the field last year, and it panned out on the field this year.
Unfortunately, that is not something we as fans will ever be privy too.
(01-07-2019, 04:13 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2019, 12:09 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ]It's no use. Any QB in this year's draft will not succeed starting right out of the gate. If the FO could find a way to have them sit this year then maybe a few of them would pan out somehow. The safest bet is Tua in 2020, but almost no one on this board wants that. They are too delusional to think rationally anymore. In fact they've never been rational from the start. Smh.
The biggest worry about Tua is his durability. Especially in the NFL and with a Jags front office that cannot consistently field a good pass blocking offensive line. Plus while he has avoid tipped balls in college, but I'm sick of seeing 2-3 every game right now by the Jags. Would be incredibly annoying if his height leads to that in the NFL.
I think the biggest thing Haskins (or any of the other prospects in the 2019 draft) will have to show scouts will be the one-on-one meetings with teams especially when they grill him about talking about the plays he ran at OSU and coverage looks on film. It's what got Mayfield to jump the field last year, and it panned out on the field this year.
Unfortunately, that is not something we as fans will ever be privy too.
This bolded bit is going to be a major determining factor with this QB class. It always is, but with the low number of highly rated prospects it will be magnified.
How guys like Grier, Lock and Jones respond in these interviews will greatly impact whether we see only one QB off the board in the first round or if we'll see three selected.
(01-02-2019, 08:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2019, 06:19 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]Your starting Right Guard is a free agent, and your Right Tackle is running on fumes. The right side of that line is going to require attention. You also need to look at your LT situation and determine if Robinson can rebound from the injury AND his less than stellar play prior to the injury. The line is more suspect than you think.
If this team drafts Grier, we'll be looking for a new QB in a year or two. He's way too much of a project for this team. Patience is one thing. This would push that to the extreme.
Foles in the regular season isn't terribly magical, and definitely not worth what he may anticipate in free agency. Regardless, the team still needs to bring in a veteran QB to hold the position until the rookie is developed and ready to play. We can't afford to ruin a rookie by rushing him into action no matter how much the franchise needs it's own guy.
I would take Lock over Grier. Huge arm, decent athleticism, just needs to develop his game a bit.
How? If he's costing the team $20 million as a backup, he becomes expendable. I don't think they'd trade the guy they're expecting to be their long-term solution at QB and stick with a guy who is a playoff hero, but mediocre otherwise.
Philly has to decide if they're exercising the option or not within a week of the Super Bowl concluding. If they opt to retain him, they're paying their backup QB $20 million. Nobody expects them to exercise that option, at which point he immediately becaomes a free agent. It's not automatic, but it seems pretty likely that's going to happen. My concern with Foles is that he's going to be expecting to get paid like a starter. This team won't put the resources into paying him that kind of money. They might as well just stick with Bortles if that's the case.
BTW, I'm not advocating retaining Bortles. I think that ship has sailed. The team is going to need to find a veteran placeholder for next year. I expect to see both Bortles and Kessler playing elsewhere.
I agree with your points for the most part, but regarding the part in bold. I think that the team is going to pay far more for a veteran expecting the veteran to be more than a "placeholder". I don't see the "future franchise" QB being drafted this season. Looking at the team right now, I think that they bring in a veteran to be a "long term" solution for say 3-5 years and they are patient drafting the eventual replacement. There is no immediate need to reach for a "franchise QB" in this coming draft.
I actually thought about this over the past several days and was going to post something similar. With the draft being what it is for QB this year, if we're not at the top of the first round to be first in line to grab a QB, the pickings behind him are all projects. I don't think the team will go the route of drafting someone with the hopes of him becoming the franchise guy. I think you'll see them draft at some point in the first couple of days, but it won't be the first pick, so it's not going to be a guy competing for the starting role here right away. If we can find a competent starter for the next couple of seasons, that takes the pressure off the team to draft their guy. In that instance, they can focus on fixing the OL, WR, TE, and LB issues primarily. Find the veteran who can best execute the new offense, and firm up the offense. Without knowing who the OC is, I'm leaning toward a guy like Tyrod Taylor who is a decent game manager. I think Foles is just going to be too expensive.