LOL, you can't make this up. We should help them out with her address at the border.
There's a wee little difference between "our country should help these people" and "let's have a BBQ at my place at 6!".
(01-16-2019, 11:30 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]There's a wee little difference between "our country should help these people" and "let's have a BBQ at my place at 6!".
"My walls, laws, and tax dollars used to keep intruders out are morally correct"
(01-16-2019, 11:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-16-2019, 11:30 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]There's a wee little difference between "our country should help these people" and "let's have a BBQ at my place at 6!".
"My walls, laws, and tax dollars used to keep intruders out are morally correct"
They are. A home is not the same as a country.
(01-17-2019, 09:40 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-16-2019, 11:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"My walls, laws, and tax dollars used to keep intruders out are morally correct"
They are. A home is not the same as a country.
There you go again, spouting your opinion as fact.
(01-16-2019, 11:30 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]There's a wee little difference between "our country should help these people" and "let's have a BBQ at my place at 6!".
Exactly. It's easy to be generous with other people's money and community resources.
(01-17-2019, 12:29 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 09:40 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]They are. A home is not the same as a country.
There you go again, spouting your opinion as fact.
Do you think the entire country is equivalent to your home?
(01-17-2019, 12:36 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-16-2019, 11:30 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]There's a wee little difference between "our country should help these people" and "let's have a BBQ at my place at 6!".
Exactly. It's easy to be generous with other people's money and community resources.
What money and community resources are we talking about here? That their kids get to attend public school? Or that emergency rooms won't turn them away?
(01-17-2019, 01:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 12:29 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]There you go again, spouting your opinion as fact.
Do you think the entire country is equivalent to your home?
(01-17-2019, 12:36 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. It's easy to be generous with other people's money and community resources.
What money and community resources are we talking about here? That their kids get to attend public school? Or that emergency rooms won't turn them away?
Among other things. Wage depression, law enforcement etc.
(01-17-2019, 01:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 01:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think the entire country is equivalent to your home?
What money and community resources are we talking about here? That their kids get to attend public school? Or that emergency rooms won't turn them away?
Among other things. Wage depression, law enforcement etc.
Wage depression? How does that work in the "a home is the same a country" paradigm?
"Friend, you can sleep on my couch, but when you go looking for a job, you'd better not take one penny less than the locally prevailing wage!"
I mean really. Come on. You know it's a bad metaphor. Admit it.
Read what I wrote. I said it's easy to be generous with other people's money AND community resources. I stand by that statement. One of the greatest problems with progressive leaders is their insulation from the policies the prescribe.
And essentially Pelosi and the rest of the progressives are using "asylum seekers" as a term to give defect status and legitimacy to illegal migrants in general. The reality of a whole unaltered flow of people into a COUNTRY is that invariably it will be someone's house, someone's school someone's lost job someone's tax dollars someone's farm etc. You don't need a play on words it's just common sense.
(01-17-2019, 01:54 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Read what I wrote. I said it's easy to be generous with other people's money AND community resources. I stand by that statement. One of the greatest problems with progressive leaders is their insulation from the policies the prescribe.
And essentially Pelosi and the rest of the progressives are using "asylum seekers" as a term to give defect status and legitimacy to illegal migrants in general. The reality of a whole unaltered flow of people into a COUNTRY is that invariably it will be someone's house, someone's school someone's lost job someone's tax dollars someone's farm etc. You don't need a play on words it's just common sense.
I'm not arguing with any of that.
I actually agree that there reasons to call Pelosi a hypocrite.
I'm just saying that this is not one of them.
I hate to be this pedantic, but you are being really dense. A country is a shared, public place that includes within it many individual private spaces like homes.
There's no reason for one to work anything like the other. And for that reason alone, if someone wants to change the rules in one, they have absolutely no obligation to change the rules in the other.
(01-17-2019, 02:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 01:54 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Read what I wrote. I said it's easy to be generous with other people's money AND community resources. I stand by that statement. One of the greatest problems with progressive leaders is their insulation from the policies the prescribe.
And essentially Pelosi and the rest of the progressives are using "asylum seekers" as a term to give defect status and legitimacy to illegal migrants in general. The reality of a whole unaltered flow of people into a COUNTRY is that invariably it will be someone's house, someone's school someone's lost job someone's tax dollars someone's farm etc. You don't need a play on words it's just common sense.
I'm not arguing with any of that.
I actually agree that there reasons to call Pelosi a hypocrite.
I'm just saying that this is not one of them.
I hate to be this pedantic, but you are being really dense. A country is a shared, public place that includes within it many individual private spaces like homes.
There's no reason for one to work anything like the other. And for that reason alone, if someone wants to change the rules in one, they have absolutely no obligation to change the rules in the other.
1.) I have simply stated that in adopting public policy a.) a public official should take into account the predictable affects on private individuals their homes and their property. B.) They should be willing to make the same sacrifices and be exposed to the same consequences as everyone that they govern.
2.) Yes, a country and a house are not exactly the same, however, in proper function, they do have similar characteristics and requirements. Chief among those are sovereignty and structural integrity. Nancy Pelosi has every right to ensure anyone entering her home a.) Has her consent and b.) Would not do her or her family hurt harm or injury. As a legislator she has the responsibility to provide that same function to the citizens of this country and their private dwellings and community spaces with respect to potential guests to this country.
To stand on the semantic or auxiliary differences between a physical structure erected to protect one family and a cultural/legal structure erected to protect MANY FAMILIES badly misses the mark of the organizational purpose of the state.
Moreover. It amazes me how in the modern progressive movement people and politicians can be so consumed with the nationalization (both defacto and literal) of industry and the obliteration of limited powers that they completely ignore the fundamental role of the state. And even in this unmitigated act of hubris try to shield themselves from the consequences of their policies and with a straight face tell the american people it's okay at YOUR HOUSE, YOUR SCHOOL, YOUR COMMUNITY, YOUR LABOR MARKET.... BUT NOR MINE!!!
Guess old Nancy will be spending more time at home now that POTUS cancelled her trip, hahaha
(01-17-2019, 04:01 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 02:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not arguing with any of that.
I actually agree that there reasons to call Pelosi a hypocrite.
I'm just saying that this is not one of them.
I hate to be this pedantic, but you are being really dense. A country is a shared, public place that includes within it many individual private spaces like homes.
There's no reason for one to work anything like the other. And for that reason alone, if someone wants to change the rules in one, they have absolutely no obligation to change the rules in the other.
1.) I have simply stated that in adopting public policy a.) a public official should take into account the predictable affects on private individuals their homes and their property. B.) They should be willing to make the same sacrifices and be exposed to the same consequences as everyone that they govern.
2.) Yes, a country and a house are not exactly the same, however, in proper function, they do have similar characteristics and requirements. Chief among those are sovereignty and structural integrity. Nancy Pelosi has every right to ensure anyone entering her home a.) Has her consent and b.) Would not do her or her family hurt harm or injury. As a legislator she has the responsibility to provide that same function to the citizens of this country and their private dwellings and community spaces with respect to potential guests to this country.
To stand on the semantic or auxiliary differences between a physical structure erected to protect one family and a cultural/legal structure erected to protect MANY FAMILIES badly misses the mark of the organizational purpose of the state.
Moreover. It amazes me how in the modern progressive movement people and politicians can be so consumed with the nationalization (both defacto and literal) of industry and the obliteration of limited powers that they completely ignore the fundamental role of the state. And even in this unmitigated act of hubris try to shield themselves from the consequences of their policies and with a straight face tell the american people it's okay at YOUR HOUSE, YOUR SCHOOL, YOUR COMMUNITY, YOUR LABOR MARKET.... BUT NOR MINE!!!
So what do you say of the fact that our borders were open to all non-chinese people until the mid 1920s?
Did the founders of this country misunderstand the "fundamental role of the state" for the first 140 years or so?
(01-17-2019, 01:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 12:29 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]There you go again, spouting your opinion as fact.
Do you think the entire country is equivalent to your home?
(01-17-2019, 12:36 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. It's easy to be generous with other people's money and community resources.
What money and community resources are we talking about here? That their kids get to attend public school? Or that emergency rooms won't turn them away?
When they cross the border (assuming they did), they're trespassing much like they were at Pelosi's home. Why should one's home be sovereign but not their country?
On a side note, my wife works as a nurse in the ER in a low-income area. She said that almost 100% of the illegals that come into the ER fraud the hospital thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per visit. Not only do they never have intentions on paying, they come frequently for mundane problems like pregnancy tests, headaches, etc. Of course this is just her experience, but your comment about emergency rooms imply that they aren't a burden there, either.
(01-17-2019, 04:38 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 01:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think the entire country is equivalent to your home?
What money and community resources are we talking about here? That their kids get to attend public school? Or that emergency rooms won't turn them away?
When they cross the border (assuming they did), they're trespassing much like they were at Pelosi's home. Why should one's home be sovereign but not their country?
On a side note, my wife works as a nurse in the ER in a low-income area. She said that almost 100% of the illegals that come into the ER fraud the hospital thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per visit. Not only do they never have intentions on paying, they come frequently for mundane problems like pregnancy tests, headaches, etc. Of course this is just her experience, but your comment about emergency rooms imply that they aren't a burden there, either.
That type of behavior happens with poor citizens too. It's what happens when you don't have medical insurance.
(01-17-2019, 12:36 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-16-2019, 11:30 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]There's a wee little difference between "our country should help these people" and "let's have a BBQ at my place at 6!".
Exactly. It's easy to be generous with other people's money and community resources.
I see some hardcore false equivalency here. I like you, and I'm happy to coexist with you in America, but my house is my freaking house, and unless I specifically invite you to it, I don't really want you in it.
(01-17-2019, 04:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 04:38 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]When they cross the border (assuming they did), they're trespassing much like they were at Pelosi's home. Why should one's home be sovereign but not their country?
On a side note, my wife works as a nurse in the ER in a low-income area. She said that almost 100% of the illegals that come into the ER fraud the hospital thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per visit. Not only do they never have intentions on paying, they come frequently for mundane problems like pregnancy tests, headaches, etc. Of course this is just her experience, but your comment about emergency rooms imply that they aren't a burden there, either.
That type of behavior happens with poor citizens too. It's what happens when you don't have medical insurance.
It's what happens when you have no intentions of paying your bills because you don't fear consequences.
You implied that they weren't much of a burden on their communities. Then listen schools and emergency rooms to further support it. The problem is that few illegals pay property taxes for schools and fewer pay their ER bills.
(01-17-2019, 05:51 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2019, 04:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That type of behavior happens with poor citizens too. It's what happens when you don't have medical insurance.
It's what happens when you have no intentions of paying your bills because you don't fear consequences.
You implied that they weren't much of a burden on their communities. Then listen schools and emergency rooms to further support it. The problem is that few illegals pay property taxes for schools and fewer pay their ER bills.
How exactly does a resident, lawful or otherwise, avoid paying property tax?! Do you think landlords pay property tax out of their own pocket? Out of the goodness of their hearts?