Respectable Institutions of higher learning are dwindling in numbers. I can’t believe a school such as this has a student base in large enough numbers for historical relics to be an issue. Perhaps another incompetent administration gone wild?
(01-22-2019, 09:12 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Respectable Institutions of higher learning are dwindling in numbers. I can’t believe a school such as this has a student base in large enough numbers for historical relics to be an issue. Perhaps another incompetent administration gone wild?
I am not sure if I am happy or sad that my kids are 6 and 7. On one hand, it gives these institutions and country a decade to pull their heads out of their butts, but on the other hand, it gives them time to get worse.
Uncertain times for this country. Civil War is looming in the next half century if this keeps up.
(01-22-2019, 09:17 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 09:12 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Respectable Institutions of higher learning are dwindling in numbers. I can’t believe a school such as this has a student base in large enough numbers for historical relics to be an issue. Perhaps another incompetent administration gone wild?
I am not sure if I am happy or sad that my kids are 6 and 7. On one hand, it gives these institutions and country a decade to pull their heads out of their butts, but on the other hand, it gives them time to get worse.
Uncertain times for this country. Civil War is looming in the next half century if this keeps up.
I have a couple kids that are just entering this stage in life and one in the early stages of a military career. Luckily, they all are very in tuned with the idiotic happenings in the US. They have also been exposed to other countries cultures. My hopes is that they can be a productive counterbalance to some of this lunatic behavior.
My opinion is that if the divide between the elitist politicians and general population doesn’t began to shrink there will in fact be a situation that attempts to take America back. We all knew that politicians had an agenda to support their lobbyists from the time they get elected but never has it been in the face blatant. Their actions are in no way indicative of the voting base. Sidebar...this is precisely why polls are so horribly inaccurate. You are polling a group so disconnected from the Beltway reality!
I could see action being taken to right the wrong. And there are quite a few indications that The Hill is aware of this.
Now where have we seen that kind of thing before?
Oh yeah!
![[Image: Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Destruction_of_Buddhas_March_21_2001.jpg)
The Left, Useful Idiots of the Religion that Shall Not Be Named.
(01-22-2019, 08:57 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/not...ls-n961006
Another one bites the dust. The left is systematically trying erase our nations and worlds history.
Personal opinion: why waste time and money covering up murals? The guy's "genocide" was totally unintentional. How was he supposed to know that indigenous people had never gotten a cold before?
Historical perspective: there was really nothing remarkable about Columbus worth celebrating. He was a career failure who somehow talked Spanish royalty into giving him ships, managed to crash the most expensive one into a rock, stumbled across an island and just assumed it was India, realized his mistake, then went home and told the king of Spain that they hadn't found any tea, but there were a bunch of dudes in funny clothing who had gold over there. He didn't even discover North America. That was the Vikings centuries prior to Columbus mucking around. It's kind of like being taught in elementary school that Magellan was the first man to circumnavigate the globe even though he died around the halfway point, and it was his crew under a new captain that were the first to do it.
(01-22-2019, 12:04 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 08:57 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/not...ls-n961006
Another one bites the dust. The left is systematically trying erase our nations and worlds history.
Personal opinion: why waste time and money covering up murals? The guy's "genocide" was totally unintentional. How was he supposed to know that indigenous people had never gotten a cold before?
Historical perspective: there was really nothing remarkable about Columbus worth celebrating. He was a career failure who somehow talked Spanish royalty into giving him ships, managed to crash the most expensive one into a rock, stumbled across an island and just assumed it was India, realized his mistake, then went home and told the king of Spain that they hadn't found any tea, but there were a bunch of dudes in funny clothing who had gold over there. He didn't even discover North America. That was the Vikings centuries prior to Columbus mucking around. It's kind of like being taught in elementary school that Magellan was the first man to circumnavigate the globe even though he died around the halfway point, and it was his crew under a new captain that were the first to do it.
While in large part he was rather unremarkable he instigated the mapping of the sailing routes from Europe to the Americas. He also helped spread Christianity to the Americas. I guess he could take credit for attempting to boost the natives immune systems as well.
So I guess we can't really say he did nothing.
Although the Vikings set foot on North America about 500 years before, it was for their benefit and nothing more. No commerce, no riches, no settlement beyond their tribes, etc. If only they had ventured south!
“These people are very unskilled in arms . . . with 50 men they could all be subjected and made to do all that one wished.”
- Christopher Columbus
Columbus should not be honored, but he also shouldn't be covered up. His story should be told.
(01-22-2019, 01:23 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 12:04 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Personal opinion: why waste time and money covering up murals? The guy's "genocide" was totally unintentional. How was he supposed to know that indigenous people had never gotten a cold before?
Historical perspective: there was really nothing remarkable about Columbus worth celebrating. He was a career failure who somehow talked Spanish royalty into giving him ships, managed to crash the most expensive one into a rock, stumbled across an island and just assumed it was India, realized his mistake, then went home and told the king of Spain that they hadn't found any tea, but there were a bunch of dudes in funny clothing who had gold over there. He didn't even discover North America. That was the Vikings centuries prior to Columbus mucking around. It's kind of like being taught in elementary school that Magellan was the first man to circumnavigate the globe even though he died around the halfway point, and it was his crew under a new captain that were the first to do it.
While in large part he was rather unremarkable he instigated the mapping of the sailing routes from Europe to the Americas. He also helped spread Christianity to the Americas. I guess he could take credit for attempting to boost the natives immune systems as well. So I guess we can't really say he did nothing.
Although the Vikings set foot on North America about 500 years before, it was for their benefit and nothing more. No commerce, no riches, no settlement beyond their tribes, etc. If only they had ventured south!
Ve vould all be speaking Norse, ya?
(01-22-2019, 02:15 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]“These people are very unskilled in arms . . . with 50 men they could all be subjected and made to do all that one wished.”
- Christopher Columbus
Columbus should not be honored, but he also shouldn't be covered up. His story should be told.
Yup.
When I was in elementary school, all that was discussed was how brave Columbus was, how insightful he was, etc.
If you want history to be taught, let's teach it. If the first few commenters on this thread had been taught the real reason why no one had previously attempted to reach India or China by sailing west, or the real story of how Columbus behaved towards the natives, and the liberties he allowed his leiutenants to take with them, or the real story of how the Catholic Church reacted to his tactics in the late 1400s, you would be surprised that Notre Dame had a mural in his honor at all.
Of course they are covering it up now.
Teach it. Don't forget it. Don't whitewash it.
If you taught it, you wouldn't want to honor it. Just remember.
Why are you guys getting so upset? The guy is celebrated for discovering America, but he never even set foot on North America, as a continent. It was a false achievement. Isn't that the ultimate "fake news?" I thought you guys were all about that sort of thing? Well, the notion that Columbus discovered America is indeed, fake news.
(01-22-2019, 03:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you guys getting so upset? The guy is celebrated for discovering America, but he never even set foot on North America, as a continent. It was a false achievement. Isn't that the ultimate "fake news?" I thought you guys were all about that sort of thing? Well, the notion that Columbus discovered America is indeed, fake news.
I don't see where anyone is upset with the notion that Columbus is being wronged. The issue is another group of "leaders" deciding historical works of art are somehow too offensive to display. The 12 murals were meant to encourage immigrant Catholics during a period of anti-Catholic sentiment. Shouldn't we all be more inclusive of immigrants (sarcasm)? In any case, attempting to erase history doesn't fix stupid or peoples ability to be divisive.
(01-22-2019, 04:17 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 03:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you guys getting so upset? The guy is celebrated for discovering America, but he never even set foot on North America, as a continent. It was a false achievement. Isn't that the ultimate "fake news?" I thought you guys were all about that sort of thing? Well, the notion that Columbus discovered America is indeed, fake news.
I don't see where anyone is upset with the notion that Columbus is being wronged. The issue is another group of "leaders" deciding historical works of art are somehow too offensive to display. The 12 murals were meant to encourage immigrant Catholics during a period of anti-Catholic sentiment. Shouldn't we all be more inclusive of immigrants (sarcasm)? In any case, attempting to erase history doesn't fix stupid or peoples ability to be divisive.
The idea that Columbus' life offers a message of encouragement to virtue, for a Catholic or an Italian or any other group, was wrong in the 1500s, wrong in the 1900 when these murals were made, and wrong now. The problem is that some folks in the 1900s decided to write and believe highly selective histories about the man.
History is written by the winners, it's the losers that try to revise it.........
(01-22-2019, 04:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 04:17 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see where anyone is upset with the notion that Columbus is being wronged. The issue is another group of "leaders" deciding historical works of art are somehow too offensive to display. The 12 murals were meant to encourage immigrant Catholics during a period of anti-Catholic sentiment. Shouldn't we all be more inclusive of immigrants (sarcasm)? In any case, attempting to erase history doesn't fix stupid or peoples ability to be divisive.
The idea that Columbus' life offers a message of encouragement to virtue, for a Catholic or an Italian or any other group, was wrong in the 1500s, wrong in the 1900 when these murals were made, and wrong now. The problem is that some folks in the 1900s decided to write and believe highly selective histories about the man.
Once again for those in the back row...not about Columbus as a man, Italian, navigator, or anything else. This is about immigration and Catholicism in a new land. Columbus just happened to be one of the first to bring such things to the Americas. Odd that folks completely gloss over the link between these murals and the private, non-profit, Catholic Notre Dame University by nitpicking a mere subject within the murals.
I guess we should just go around a destroy all works of art, priceless or not, because its subject matter may offend someone or doesn’t hold up to the scrutiny of today’s idiocy.
(01-22-2019, 05:49 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 04:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The idea that Columbus' life offers a message of encouragement to virtue, for a Catholic or an Italian or any other group, was wrong in the 1500s, wrong in the 1900 when these murals were made, and wrong now. The problem is that some folks in the 1900s decided to write and believe highly selective histories about the man.
Once again for those in the back row...not about Columbus as a man, Italian, navigator, or anything else. This is about immigration and Catholicism in a new land. Columbus just happened to be one of the first to bring such things to the Americas. Odd that folks completely gloss over the link between these murals and the private, non-profit, Catholic Notre Dame University by nitpicking a mere subject within the murals.
I guess we should just go around a destroy all works of art, priceless or not, because its subject matter may offend someone or doesn’t hold up to the scrutiny of today’s idiocy.
If the murals merely depicted bartolome de Las casas, I doubt anyone would be complaining.
(01-22-2019, 06:38 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 05:49 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Once again for those in the back row...not about Columbus as a man, Italian, navigator, or anything else. This is about immigration and Catholicism in a new land. Columbus just happened to be one of the first to bring such things to the Americas. Odd that folks completely gloss over the link between these murals and the private, non-profit, Catholic Notre Dame University by nitpicking a mere subject within the murals.
I guess we should just go around a destroy all works of art, priceless or not, because its subject matter may offend someone or doesn’t hold up to the scrutiny of today’s idiocy.
If the murals merely depicted bartolome de Las casas, I doubt anyone would be complaining.
I beg to differ since he himself had Indian slaves and took part in atrocities against indigenous people. He can also be credited with the birth of the Transatlantic slave trade. Plenty to complain about not only if you are Native American but African American.
(01-22-2019, 03:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you guys getting so upset? The guy is celebrated for discovering America, but he never even set foot on North America, as a continent. It was a false achievement. Isn't that the ultimate "fake news?" I thought you guys were all about that sort of thing? Well, the notion that Columbus discovered America is indeed, fake news.
Not to be pedantic but as a history teacher I feel like I should point out that his 4th voyage led to Columbus exploring Costa Rica, Honduras and other parts of Central America, which is part of North America. I think you mean he didn't land in the United States.
(01-22-2019, 08:37 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2019, 06:38 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]If the murals merely depicted bartolome de Las casas, I doubt anyone would be complaining.
I beg to differ since he himself had Indian slaves and took part in atrocities against indigenous people. He can also be credited with the birth of the Transatlantic slave trade. Plenty to complain about not only if you are Native American but African American.
He always saw enslaving the native Americans as wrong.
He did suggest bringing over Africans instead. For part of his life that seemed better to him.
But before he died, he wrote and spoke about all people being equal and how none of them should be enslaved and how the transatlantic slave trade needed to end.