So we're in the cold football-less off season but just interested in seeing how people think we can improve. How much they actually watched us
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...gency-cuts
The one quite damming part, and you only really think about it when it's laid out like this is just how much effort we have put in to finding a run game.
3. Don't do anything drastic at running back. During Dave Caldwell's run as Jags general manager, he has repeatedly attempted to solve his running back conundrum by throwing more and more resources at the position with no viable results. He started by signing Vikings backup Toby Gerhart to a three-year, $10.5 million deal. Gerhart lasted one year as a starter and was out of football by Year 3. The Jags replaced Gerhart by using the 36th pick in the 2015 draft on T.J. Yeldon, who got one year as the primary starter. During the 2016 offseason, they gave Jets bruiser Chris Ivory a five-year, $32 million deal and had him split time with Yeldon. After Ivory missed five games and fumbled five times on 137 touches, they used the fourth overall pick in the 2017 draft on Fournette. After two years, the Fournette move isn't looking great. The former LSU star has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and missed chunks of time in each of his first two seasons. The team is reportedly attempting to void the remaining $7.1 million in guaranteed salary on Fournette's deal after he was suspended for fighting Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson in the middle of a truly inconsequential game in November. Jacksonville presumably could cut Fournette and save that $7.1 million if Fournette's appeal does not succeed. The Jags might be tempted to throw more money or high draft picks at running back to try to find a solution. They need to stop. They are better off hitting 2019 with Fournette and re-signing Grant, who was valuable both as a special-teamer and a receiving back when healthy. If the Jags want to use a midround pick on a back or sign a veteran for less than $2 million in free agency, that's fine. Devoting any serious resources to the position would invoke that famous cliché about the definition of insanity.
(02-20-2019, 05:52 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]So we're in the cold football-less off season but just interested in seeing how people think we can improve. How much they actually watched us
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...gency-cuts
The one quite damming part, and you only really think about it when it's laid out like this is just how much effort we have put in to finding a run game.
3. Don't do anything drastic at running back. During Dave Caldwell's run as Jags general manager, he has repeatedly attempted to solve his running back conundrum by throwing more and more resources at the position with no viable results. He started by signing Vikings backup Toby Gerhart to a three-year, $10.5 million deal. Gerhart lasted one year as a starter and was out of football by Year 3. The Jags replaced Gerhart by using the 36th pick in the 2015 draft on T.J. Yeldon, who got one year as the primary starter. During the 2016 offseason, they gave Jets bruiser Chris Ivory a five-year, $32 million deal and had him split time with Yeldon. After Ivory missed five games and fumbled five times on 137 touches, they used the fourth overall pick in the 2017 draft on Fournette. After two years, the Fournette move isn't looking great. The former LSU star has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and missed chunks of time in each of his first two seasons. The team is reportedly attempting to void the remaining $7.1 million in guaranteed salary on Fournette's deal after he was suspended for fighting Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson in the middle of a truly inconsequential game in November. Jacksonville presumably could cut Fournette and save that $7.1 million if Fournette's appeal does not succeed. The Jags might be tempted to throw more money or high draft picks at running back to try to find a solution. They need to stop. They are better off hitting 2019 with Fournette and re-signing Grant, who was valuable both as a special-teamer and a receiving back when healthy. If the Jags want to use a midround pick on a back or sign a veteran for less than $2 million in free agency, that's fine. Devoting any serious resources to the position would invoke that famous cliché about the definition of insanity.
That was a depressing read.
How can the RB position be so hard for a team to fill?
(02-20-2019, 05:55 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 05:52 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]So we're in the cold football-less off season but just interested in seeing how people think we can improve. How much they actually watched us
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...gency-cuts
The one quite damming part, and you only really think about it when it's laid out like this is just how much effort we have put in to finding a run game.
3. Don't do anything drastic at running back. During Dave Caldwell's run as Jags general manager, he has repeatedly attempted to solve his running back conundrum by throwing more and more resources at the position with no viable results. He started by signing Vikings backup Toby Gerhart to a three-year, $10.5 million deal. Gerhart lasted one year as a starter and was out of football by Year 3. The Jags replaced Gerhart by using the 36th pick in the 2015 draft on T.J. Yeldon, who got one year as the primary starter. During the 2016 offseason, they gave Jets bruiser Chris Ivory a five-year, $32 million deal and had him split time with Yeldon. After Ivory missed five games and fumbled five times on 137 touches, they used the fourth overall pick in the 2017 draft on Fournette. After two years, the Fournette move isn't looking great. The former LSU star has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and missed chunks of time in each of his first two seasons. The team is reportedly attempting to void the remaining $7.1 million in guaranteed salary on Fournette's deal after he was suspended for fighting Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson in the middle of a truly inconsequential game in November. Jacksonville presumably could cut Fournette and save that $7.1 million if Fournette's appeal does not succeed. The Jags might be tempted to throw more money or high draft picks at running back to try to find a solution. They need to stop. They are better off hitting 2019 with Fournette and re-signing Grant, who was valuable both as a special-teamer and a receiving back when healthy. If the Jags want to use a midround pick on a back or sign a veteran for less than $2 million in free agency, that's fine. Devoting any serious resources to the position would invoke that famous cliché about the definition of insanity.
That was a depressing read.
How can the RB position be so hard for a team to fill?
I know what you mean. Does Caldwell get credit for trying so hard and so many times or judged that they've nearly all been failures?
That seems to be the Caldwell Dilemma!
(02-20-2019, 06:00 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 05:55 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]That was a depressing read.
How can the RB position be so hard for a team to fill?
I know what you mean. Does Caldwell get credit for trying so hard and so many times or judged that they've nearly all been failures?
That seems to be the Caldwell Dilemma!
For that position, I'd say it's the latter.
I think overall, he's done a very good job building the team as a whole. I can understand him missing on QB though that is the most important position and I don't like that he missed on Bortles.
But RB is supposedly one of the easiest positions to evaluate.
How can he miss so often?
Not too hard to figure out. We have treated the position like a run and grind position. Most of the RBs in the draft lately have been a different type of back. We don't run the offense to expand the choices available to us from the position. Runs me through a chicken and egg debate on what we are really chasing here. Is the front office driving the coaches or are the coaches driving the front office.
Watching the rest of the league it is depressing as a Jaguars fan.
(02-20-2019, 05:55 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 05:52 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]So we're in the cold football-less off season but just interested in seeing how people think we can improve. How much they actually watched us
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...gency-cuts
The one quite damming part, and you only really think about it when it's laid out like this is just how much effort we have put in to finding a run game.
3. Don't do anything drastic at running back. During Dave Caldwell's run as Jags general manager, he has repeatedly attempted to solve his running back conundrum by throwing more and more resources at the position with no viable results. He started by signing Vikings backup Toby Gerhart to a three-year, $10.5 million deal. Gerhart lasted one year as a starter and was out of football by Year 3. The Jags replaced Gerhart by using the 36th pick in the 2015 draft on T.J. Yeldon, who got one year as the primary starter. During the 2016 offseason, they gave Jets bruiser Chris Ivory a five-year, $32 million deal and had him split time with Yeldon. After Ivory missed five games and fumbled five times on 137 touches, they used the fourth overall pick in the 2017 draft on Fournette. After two years, the Fournette move isn't looking great. The former LSU star has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and missed chunks of time in each of his first two seasons. The team is reportedly attempting to void the remaining $7.1 million in guaranteed salary on Fournette's deal after he was suspended for fighting Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson in the middle of a truly inconsequential game in November. Jacksonville presumably could cut Fournette and save that $7.1 million if Fournette's appeal does not succeed. The Jags might be tempted to throw more money or high draft picks at running back to try to find a solution. They need to stop. They are better off hitting 2019 with Fournette and re-signing Grant, who was valuable both as a special-teamer and a receiving back when healthy. If the Jags want to use a midround pick on a back or sign a veteran for less than $2 million in free agency, that's fine. Devoting any serious resources to the position would invoke that famous cliché about the definition of insanity.
That was a depressing read.
How can the RB position be so hard for a team to fill?
Running backs typically look better with a good line in front of them, and a QB who can back the defense off a bit with a strong passing game.
(02-20-2019, 05:55 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 05:52 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]So we're in the cold football-less off season but just interested in seeing how people think we can improve. How much they actually watched us
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...gency-cuts
The one quite damming part, and you only really think about it when it's laid out like this is just how much effort we have put in to finding a run game.
3. Don't do anything drastic at running back. During Dave Caldwell's run as Jags general manager, he has repeatedly attempted to solve his running back conundrum by throwing more and more resources at the position with no viable results. He started by signing Vikings backup Toby Gerhart to a three-year, $10.5 million deal. Gerhart lasted one year as a starter and was out of football by Year 3. The Jags replaced Gerhart by using the 36th pick in the 2015 draft on T.J. Yeldon, who got one year as the primary starter. During the 2016 offseason, they gave Jets bruiser Chris Ivory a five-year, $32 million deal and had him split time with Yeldon. After Ivory missed five games and fumbled five times on 137 touches, they used the fourth overall pick in the 2017 draft on Fournette. After two years, the Fournette move isn't looking great. The former LSU star has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and missed chunks of time in each of his first two seasons. The team is reportedly attempting to void the remaining $7.1 million in guaranteed salary on Fournette's deal after he was suspended for fighting Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson in the middle of a truly inconsequential game in November. Jacksonville presumably could cut Fournette and save that $7.1 million if Fournette's appeal does not succeed. The Jags might be tempted to throw more money or high draft picks at running back to try to find a solution. They need to stop. They are better off hitting 2019 with Fournette and re-signing Grant, who was valuable both as a special-teamer and a receiving back when healthy. If the Jags want to use a midround pick on a back or sign a veteran for less than $2 million in free agency, that's fine. Devoting any serious resources to the position would invoke that famous cliché about the definition of insanity.
That was a depressing read.
How can the RB position be so hard for a team to fill?
It really is depressing. But it all boils down to not having a viable QB and O-line issues. If nobody is worried about your QB, your run game is going to be hurt. We haven't hit on a QB since.......well since Brunell.... sad. We have some decent backs, we just need a good QB and sure up the line, and our run game will be better. Staying healthy is a must!
The big problem is they're throwing money and resources at the wrong position. Don't draft running backs high, period. Second round running backs have to be really good, there's no such thing as a running back worth a top ten pick in this era of the NFL, and the positions you draft high are QB, offensive line, defensive line, and corner. Stop drafting with need in mind, that's a losers game.
This question is more of was there a change in the scouting department looking at RB after MJD. After this time, the scouting was also horrible at finding legitimate WR threats too. Caldwell does take some blame being in charge and not getting rid of people with poor history of projection, but this an institutional issue at this point.
(02-20-2019, 06:06 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 06:00 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I know what you mean. Does Caldwell get credit for trying so hard and so many times or judged that they've nearly all been failures?
That seems to be the Caldwell Dilemma!
For that position, I'd say it's the latter.
I think overall, he's done a very good job building the team as a whole. I can understand him missing on QB though that is the most important position and I don't like that he missed on Bortles.
But RB is supposedly one of the easiest positions to evaluate.
How can he miss so often?
I'm a HUGE believer that RB's are only as good as their O-Line. If we fix the O-Line and our RB's stay healthy, the problem will no longer be a problem.
We have a gold mine of RB's just north of us in Georgia.....for some reason never looked up there.
It would bring a lot of fans to the Jags too.....
Maybe we will in the coming years.
(02-20-2019, 05:52 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]So we're in the cold football-less off season but just interested in seeing how people think we can improve. How much they actually watched us
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...gency-cuts
The one quite damming part, and you only really think about it when it's laid out like this is just how much effort we have put in to finding a run game.
3. Don't do anything drastic at running back. During Dave Caldwell's run as Jags general manager, he has repeatedly attempted to solve his running back conundrum by throwing more and more resources at the position with no viable results. He started by signing Vikings backup Toby Gerhart to a three-year, $10.5 million deal. Gerhart lasted one year as a starter and was out of football by Year 3. The Jags replaced Gerhart by using the 36th pick in the 2015 draft on T.J. Yeldon, who got one year as the primary starter. During the 2016 offseason, they gave Jets bruiser Chris Ivory a five-year, $32 million deal and had him split time with Yeldon. After Ivory missed five games and fumbled five times on 137 touches, they used the fourth overall pick in the 2017 draft on Fournette. After two years, the Fournette move isn't looking great. The former LSU star has averaged 3.7 yards per carry and missed chunks of time in each of his first two seasons. The team is reportedly attempting to void the remaining $7.1 million in guaranteed salary on Fournette's deal after he was suspended for fighting Bills defensive end Shaq Lawson in the middle of a truly inconsequential game in November. Jacksonville presumably could cut Fournette and save that $7.1 million if Fournette's appeal does not succeed. The Jags might be tempted to throw more money or high draft picks at running back to try to find a solution. They need to stop. They are better off hitting 2019 with Fournette and re-signing Grant, who was valuable both as a special-teamer and a receiving back when healthy. If the Jags want to use a midround pick on a back or sign a veteran for less than $2 million in free agency, that's fine. Devoting any serious resources to the position would invoke that famous cliché about the definition of insanity.
Gerhart and Ivory both were much better with their other teams. Since Yeldon and Fournette were draft picks, who knows, but it seems that the problem is with the Jags offense. It could be OL, QB, play design, or some combination.
I do agree it was foolish to waste two high picks on RBs.
(02-20-2019, 09:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 06:06 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]For that position, I'd say it's the latter.
I think overall, he's done a very good job building the team as a whole. I can understand him missing on QB though that is the most important position and I don't like that he missed on Bortles.
But RB is supposedly one of the easiest positions to evaluate.
How can he miss so often?
I'm a HUGE believer that RB's are only as good as their O-Line. If we fix the O-Line and our RB's stay healthy, the problem will no longer be a problem.
I agree with this 100%. If Caldwell has had a major shortcoming, it's not assembling a first tier o-line.
(02-26-2019, 10:15 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this 100%. If Caldwell has had a major shortcoming, it's not assembling a first tier o-line.
Not for lack of trying. He's used a top 5 pick, high 2nd rounder, two more third rounders, and two big FA deals. I'm not even counting whatever adjective you want to use the Zane Beadles deal either lol.
(02-20-2019, 09:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 06:06 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]For that position, I'd say it's the latter.
I think overall, he's done a very good job building the team as a whole. I can understand him missing on QB though that is the most important position and I don't like that he missed on Bortles.
But RB is supposedly one of the easiest positions to evaluate.
How can he miss so often?
I'm a HUGE believer that RB's are only as good as their O-Line. If we fix the O-Line and our RB's stay healthy, the problem will no longer be a problem.
I totally agree with that.
Gotta feel like QB and OL positions are way more important right now
That's not even to mention TE or WR
RBs can be found later in the draft. I don't ever want to see Jacksonville get one in the top 5 again. At least, not any time soon. A good RB can change an offense's look, but a great QB and a solid OL can do that even more so
(02-26-2019, 10:15 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (02-20-2019, 09:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a HUGE believer that RB's are only as good as their O-Line. If we fix the O-Line and our RB's stay healthy, the problem will no longer be a problem.
I agree with this 100%. If Caldwell has had a major shortcoming, it's not assembling a first tier o-line.
Hmm... if Caldwell's flaw is selecting O-line, QB, and RB talent, why not target CB Greedy Williams or another player/position for which he's more adept at evaluating in the first round? That would minimize the risk of whiffing. Every GM has blind spots. It's better to target those in later rounds or free agency.
(02-27-2019, 11:49 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (02-26-2019, 10:15 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this 100%. If Caldwell has had a major shortcoming, it's not assembling a first tier o-line.
Hmm... if Caldwell's flaw is selecting O-line, QB, and RB talent, why not target CB Greedy Williams or another player/position for which he's more adept at evaluating in the first round? That would minimize the risk of whiffing. Every GM has blind spots. It's better to target those in later rounds or free agency.
Because minimizing the risk typically means devaluing the reward as well. Choosing not to address something because you are bad in that area doesn't fix the problem.
(02-27-2019, 12:09 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2019, 11:49 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Hmm... if Caldwell's flaw is selecting O-line, QB, and RB talent, why not target CB Greedy Williams or another player/position for which he's more adept at evaluating in the first round? That would minimize the risk of whiffing. Every GM has blind spots. It's better to target those in later rounds or free agency.
Because minimizing the risk typically means devaluing the reward as well. Choosing not to address something because you are bad in that area doesn't fix the problem.
But he's chronically bad at drafting RB high... Should he draft another in the first round?
(02-27-2019, 12:13 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (02-27-2019, 12:09 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]Because minimizing the risk typically means devaluing the reward as well. Choosing not to address something because you are bad in that area doesn't fix the problem.
But he's chronically bad at drafting RB high... Should he draft another in the first round?
Absolutely not. RB is no where near as high of a priority as other positions.
My post was more referring to you saying we should take a CB rather than a QB or another position of need on the offense. While there may be a lot of hate thrown Fournette's way by people on this board, it is still a little unfair to say he a complete bust at this point. as most people said above, he has not had a very good Oline in front of him. couple that with the fact most teams don't respect our passing game, he doesn't exactly have a situation like zeke or someone who is better equipped to flourish. Not to mention, our O scheme was supposed to give him a heavy work load and be centered around the run. That is a pretty good recipe to make any back look like a injury prone underachiever. Most people have an issue with things that happen off the field with speculation about his attitude because a ill timed camera shot during the last game and fight early on.
I wouldn't say he is chronically bad at drafting since he has only taken one in the first round.