(05-08-2019, 01:01 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmmm.
If there's no collusion and no obstruction, and if the report was a total exoneration, and if putting Mueller on the stand would destroy the report once and for all by forcing him to answer questions about his agents found to be severely compromised by Democrats, why is Trump fighting so hard to stop all these things from happening?
My skepticism meter is way, way into the red. Not too long ago, I was of the mindset that a cursory look into obstruction should be carried out with everything else totally resolved and done with, but now I'm leaning strongly towards the notion that there are things in there that would be incredibly damning to Trump or his family members. He's engaged in the same sort of behavioral pattern that Nixon found himself in shortly before Howard Baker realized he was being played and the proverbial noose was fitted to Nixon's Presidency.
Call me a looney lib or launch into some off-the-handle diatribe about how covering up a crime that didn't happen is not a crime, as I'm sure most of you are already doing, but I think there's a lot more here than meets the eye. If this was a total exoneration of a report, why the efforts to make sure no one sees or asks questions about it?
This is the ultra troll job from POTUS to keep the dems cruising down this path until 2020, while he continues to fix the country Obama nearly destroyed.
TJ, all of the people asking to see the non-redacted copy of the report can in-fact see the non-redacted copy of the report in a SCIF. They don't want to see it. Why do you think they have already moved on to Trump's tax returns? You are better than this man. Don't fall for it.
Also, think about this for a minute. A good number of the house democrats are lawyers and couldn't even be trained by their staff lawyers to ask Barr the proper questions. These people wanted nothing to do with Barr the 2nd day of his testimony which is why they requested their staff interview him, knowing Barr would say no.
Truth is, Dems care more about eating KFC on the house floor than getting to the bottom of any "investigation"
(05-08-2019, 01:07 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 01:01 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmmm.
If there's no collusion and no obstruction, and if the report was a total exoneration, and if putting Mueller on the stand would destroy the report once and for all by forcing him to answer questions about his agents found to be severely compromised by Democrats, why is Trump fighting so hard to stop all these things from happening?
My skepticism meter is way, way into the red. Not too long ago, I was of the mindset that a cursory look into obstruction should be carried out with everything else totally resolved and done with, but now I'm leaning strongly towards the notion that there are things in there that would be incredibly damning to Trump or his family members. He's engaged in the same sort of behavioral pattern that Nixon found himself in shortly before Howard Baker realized he was being played and the proverbial noose was fitted to Nixon's Presidency.
Call me a looney lib or launch into some off-the-handle diatribe about how covering up a crime that didn't happen is not a crime, as I'm sure most of you are already doing, but I think there's a lot more here than meets the eye. If this was a total exoneration of a report, why the efforts to make sure no one sees or asks questions about it?
This is the ultra troll job from POTUS to keep the dems cruising down this path until 2020, while he continues to fix the country Obama nearly destroyed.
TJ, all of the people asking to see the non-redacted copy of the report can in-fact see the non-redacted copy of the report in a SCIF. They don't want to see it. Why do you think they have already moved on to Trump's tax returns? You are better than this man. Don't fall for it.
Also, think about this for a minute. A good number of the house democrats are lawyers and couldn't even be trained by their staff lawyers to ask Barr the proper questions. These people wanted nothing to do with Barr the 2nd day of his testimony which is why they requested their staff interview him, knowing Barr would say no.
Truth is, Dems care more about eating KFC on the house floor than getting to the bottom of any "investigation"
Then release the report and let them look like idiots. If that report comes out in unaltered form (aside from anything pertinent to the ongoing SDNY investigation) and absolutely nothing about the substance of it is changed, Democrats have dug their own grave for 2020. If it isn't released, the doubts continue to mount and Trump's in deep dookie in a year if something damaging does come out of this. Unless there's something in there he absolutely does not want people seeing, there's no reason not to let CNN and MSNBC implode and take the Democratic Party with them.
(05-08-2019, 01:11 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 01:07 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is the ultra troll job from POTUS to keep the dems cruising down this path until 2020, while he continues to fix the country Obama nearly destroyed.
TJ, all of the people asking to see the non-redacted copy of the report can in-fact see the non-redacted copy of the report in a SCIF. They don't want to see it. Why do you think they have already moved on to Trump's tax returns? You are better than this man. Don't fall for it.
Also, think about this for a minute. A good number of the house democrats are lawyers and couldn't even be trained by their staff lawyers to ask Barr the proper questions. These people wanted nothing to do with Barr the 2nd day of his testimony which is why they requested their staff interview him, knowing Barr would say no.
Truth is, Dems care more about eating KFC on the house floor than getting to the bottom of any "investigation"
Then release the report and let them look like idiots. If that report comes out in unaltered form (aside from anything pertinent to the ongoing SDNY investigation) and absolutely nothing about the substance of it is changed, Democrats have dug their own grave for 2020. If it isn't released, the doubts continue to mount and Trump's in deep dookie in a year if something damaging does come out of this. Unless there's something in there he absolutely does not want people seeing, there's no reason not to let CNN and MSNBC implode and take the Democratic Party with them.
As a citizen, I want to see all of the texts between Strzok and Page that haven't been released. I want to see the FISA warrants that led to the investigation. Release one, release all. Works both ways.
Later Wednesday, Sanders spoke with reporters at the White House pointing out that there was already a less-redacted version of the Mueller report available to Congress that Democrats were ignoring.
“Not a single Democrat has even taken the time to go and look at it,” she said. “They’re asking for information that they know they can’t have.”
She said that Barr was legally prevented from giving Congress the unredacted version of the Mueller report, which would reveal the grand jury information.
“Chairman Nadler is asking the attorney general of the United States to break the law and commit a crime by releasing information that he knows he has no legal authority to have,” Sanders said. “It’s truly outrageous and absurd what the chairman is doing and he should be embarrassed by his behavior.”
Nice to see all the Internet Lawyers out in full force.
(05-08-2019, 01:34 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Nice to see all the Internet Lawyers out in full force.
I know, right? Not sure why people are trying to convince themselves that Bill Barr isn't the smartest guy in the room.
A fully unredacted report (one with only the grand jury portion undisclosed, per federal law) is, and has been, available for any Democrat to see.
Number of Democrats who have opted to read it?
0
That tells you all you need to know about this charade.
And for the record... should this farce continue... it would constitute tampering with a presidential election if it's ongoing in November 2020.
(05-08-2019, 01:57 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]A fully unredacted report (one with only the grand jury portion undisclosed, per federal law) is, and has been, available for any Democrat to see.
Number of Democrats who have opted to read it?
0
That tells you all you need to know about this charade.
And for the record... should this farce continue... it would constitute tampering with a presidential election if it's ongoing in November 2020.
It's sad to see good people like tj being played.
There was no requirement for Barr to release anything. Going above and beyond your legal obligation for transparency is now a "cover up" because you won't break existing federal law to reveal grand jury testimony. This is insane.
I'd ask tj if the minimally redacted sections contain such "damming bombshells" why is it that Mueller himself came to the bottom line conclusion that he couldn't make a case for obstruction and that there is no evidence of collusion with access and oversight to the grand jury proceedings themselves all the underlying evidence etc? The claim is preposterous on it's face!!!
(05-08-2019, 03:23 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 01:57 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]A fully unredacted report (one with only the grand jury portion undisclosed, per federal law) is, and has been, available for any Democrat to see.
Number of Democrats who have opted to read it?
0
That tells you all you need to know about this charade.
And for the record... should this farce continue... it would constitute tampering with a presidential election if it's ongoing in November 2020.
It's sad to see good people like tj being played.
There was no requirement for Barr to release anything. Going above and beyond your legal obligation for transparency is now a "cover up" because you won't break existing federal law to reveal grand jury testimony. This is insane.
I'd ask tj if the minimally redacted sections contain such "damming bombshells" why is it that Mueller himself came to the bottom line conclusion that he couldn't make a case for obstruction and that there is no evidence of collusion with access and oversight to the grand jury proceedings themselves all the underlying evidence etc? The claim is preposterous on it's face!!!
The left is so desperate to "get him" that they ignore all logic and reason. It is truly sad to watch. When Trump wins in 2020, TDS should be an actual documented ailment by then.
(05-08-2019, 03:33 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 03:23 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]It's sad to see good people like tj being played.
There was no requirement for Barr to release anything. Going above and beyond your legal obligation for transparency is now a "cover up" because you won't break existing federal law to reveal grand jury testimony. This is insane.
I'd ask tj if the minimally redacted sections contain such "damming bombshells" why is it that Mueller himself came to the bottom line conclusion that he couldn't make a case for obstruction and that there is no evidence of collusion with access and oversight to the grand jury proceedings themselves all the underlying evidence etc? The claim is preposterous on it's face!!!
The left is so desperate to "get him" that they ignore all logic and reason. It is truly sad to watch. When Trump wins in 2020, TDS should be an actual documented ailment by then.
Bender, O-line, and even Miksez aren't really "left", they just got the TDS Funk.
(05-08-2019, 03:45 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 03:33 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]The left is so desperate to "get him" that they ignore all logic and reason. It is truly sad to watch. When Trump wins in 2020, TDS should be an actual documented ailment by then.
Bender, O-line, and even Miksez aren't really "left", they just got the TDS Funk.
You could actually "hear" the frothing of the mouth in TJ's post earlier. I felt bad.
(05-08-2019, 03:45 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 03:33 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]The left is so desperate to "get him" that they ignore all logic and reason. It is truly sad to watch. When Trump wins in 2020, TDS should be an actual documented ailment by then.
Bender, O-line, and even Miksez aren't really "left", they just got the TDS Funk.
I wouldn't call it TDS, but yeah. Don't like the guy. I like other Republicans.
(05-08-2019, 03:23 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 01:57 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]A fully unredacted report (one with only the grand jury portion undisclosed, per federal law) is, and has been, available for any Democrat to see.
Number of Democrats who have opted to read it?
0
That tells you all you need to know about this charade.
And for the record... should this farce continue... it would constitute tampering with a presidential election if it's ongoing in November 2020.
It's sad to see good people like tj being played.
There was no requirement for Barr to release anything. Going above and beyond your legal obligation for transparency is now a "cover up" because you won't break existing federal law to reveal grand jury testimony. This is insane.
I'd ask tj if the minimally redacted sections contain such "damming bombshells" why is it that Mueller himself came to the bottom line conclusion that he couldn't make a case for obstruction and that there is no evidence of collusion with access and oversight to the grand jury proceedings themselves all the underlying evidence etc? The claim is preposterous on it's face!!!
Mueller did not conclude either way regarding obstruction.
Trump did obstruct justice, but no federal prosecutor can indict a sitting President.
(05-08-2019, 01:11 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 01:07 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is the ultra troll job from POTUS to keep the dems cruising down this path until 2020, while he continues to fix the country Obama nearly destroyed.
TJ, all of the people asking to see the non-redacted copy of the report can in-fact see the non-redacted copy of the report in a SCIF. They don't want to see it. Why do you think they have already moved on to Trump's tax returns? You are better than this man. Don't fall for it.
Also, think about this for a minute. A good number of the house democrats are lawyers and couldn't even be trained by their staff lawyers to ask Barr the proper questions. These people wanted nothing to do with Barr the 2nd day of his testimony which is why they requested their staff interview him, knowing Barr would say no.
Truth is, Dems care more about eating KFC on the house floor than getting to the bottom of any "investigation"
Then release the report and let them look like idiots. If that report comes out in unaltered form (aside from anything pertinent to the ongoing SDNY investigation) and absolutely nothing about the substance of it is changed, Democrats have dug their own grave for 2020. If it isn't released, the doubts continue to mount and Trump's in deep dookie in a year if something damaging does come out of this. Unless there's something in there he absolutely does not want people seeing, there's no reason not to let CNN and MSNBC implode and take the Democratic Party with them.
I think you are wrong regarding Congress having any right to see an unredacted report. Congressional oversight is always supposed to be general questions that help them revise statutes that will affect many cases. Judges are the ones who are supposed to have access to more specific information about one case.
I think the House judiciary committee had the right to compel Barr to testify and answer questions from anyone they designate. Barr could have cited statutes that prevent him from answering, but he needed to show up and speak.
I also think Barr intentionally deceived Congress and the public. But that's not why they are about to hold Barr in contempt.
Congress has grounds to hold Barr in contempt or impeach him, but they're citing different grounds for some reason. And pirkster is right about the less-redacted version that's available to six Democrats and six Republicans in the SCIF. Though Barr didn't have to provide it, the fact that no Democrat has actually shown up at the SCIF to see shows that they are not being honest about their true intentions.
(05-08-2019, 04:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-08-2019, 01:11 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Then release the report and let them look like idiots. If that report comes out in unaltered form (aside from anything pertinent to the ongoing SDNY investigation) and absolutely nothing about the substance of it is changed, Democrats have dug their own grave for 2020. If it isn't released, the doubts continue to mount and Trump's in deep dookie in a year if something damaging does come out of this. Unless there's something in there he absolutely does not want people seeing, there's no reason not to let CNN and MSNBC implode and take the Democratic Party with them.
I think you are wrong regarding Congress having any right to see an unredacted report. Congressional oversight is always supposed to be general questions that help them revise statutes that will affect many cases. Judges are the ones who are supposed to have access to more specific information about one case.
I think the House judiciary committee had the right to compel Barr to testify and answer questions from anyone they designate. Barr could have cited statutes that prevent him from answering, but he needed to show up and speak.
I also think Barr intentionally deceived Congress and the public. But that's not why they are about to hold Barr in contempt.
Congress has grounds to hold Barr in contempt or impeach him, but they're citing different grounds for some reason.
Why would the Attorney General take questions from the staff of congressional members?
Welp, Trump invoked Executive Privilege. It's over now, he basically told Nadler and Schiff to get bent. Democrat tears to ensue momentarily.
Democrats are getting desperate. The report didn't come to the conclusion that they wanted so suddenly the deliverers of the message must be punished!
The democrats don't really want the report to be made public because they fear what it will actually reveal. They know that a fully un-redacted report is impossible under law, but if they keep the narrative up the MSM will keep "reporting" it.
They also fear the current Attorney General because he is doing his job and is looking into what started this whole thing. The findings are most likely not going to be kind to them or the prior administration. That is why William Barr must be silenced.
(05-08-2019, 04:36 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Democrats are getting desperate. The report didn't come to the conclusion that they wanted so suddenly the deliverers of the message must be punished!
The democrats don't really want the report to be made public because they fear what it will actually reveal. They know that a fully un-redacted report is impossible under law, but if they keep the narrative up the MSM will keep "reporting" it.
They also fear the current Attorney General because he is doing his job and is looking into what started this whole thing. The findings are most likely not going to be kind to them or the prior administration. That is why William Barr must be silenced.
Nadler said to Barr, "Break Federal Law so we can impeach you or we'll hold you in contempt and impeach you."
And then Trump giggled like a school girl while telling them to [BLEEP] off.
![[Image: tenor.gif]](https://media1.tenor.com/images/adb9c5362d7df68690ad39014189b334/tenor.gif)
Welp Democrats, time to spin the "Wheel of Trump". What will it land on this time?
1. Trumps a racist
2. Tax returns
3. Russia Collusion
(05-08-2019, 03:23 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd ask tj if the minimally redacted sections contain such "damming bombshells" why is it that Mueller himself came to the bottom line conclusion that he couldn't make a case for obstruction and that there is no evidence of collusion with access and oversight to the grand jury proceedings themselves all the underlying evidence etc? The claim is preposterous on it's face!!!
I don't know what's in there. I just know that it's damn peculiar when a man has the chance to bury his political enemies once and for all by just releasing a report that he says proves his innocence, yet he refuses to do so and tries to keep people from talking about it.
(05-08-2019, 03:47 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]You could actually "hear" the frothing of the mouth in TJ's post earlier. I felt bad.
You misread me, then. My eyebrow is raised, but I'm not frothing by any stretch of the imagination. There's a pattern of odd behavior shaping up here, the sort of behavior that Nixon was engaging in shortly before the end. When any President starts engaging in that pattern of behavior, I think we'd all be wise to let the spidey sense tingle a bit. When he does so regarding something that he says completely exonerates him, and something that would no doubt destroy his opponents if it does turn out to be absolutely nothing beyond what we already knew, I'm highly suspicious.
(05-08-2019, 04:42 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Welp Democrats, time to spin the "Wheel of Trump". What will it land on this time?
1. Trumps a racist
2. Tax returns
3. Russia Collusion
I would like to know why the hell the news feed on my phone is telling me that Trump's businesses have lost $1B. I don't see how that's relevant to, well, anything unless he was embezzling from them? Am I missing part of the story, or is CNN just trolling for views today?
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriNW5rslDXcDvu1i/giphy.gif)