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Thinks we should take Gary.  Not a lot of production but the upside is there.  I think he could be a good pic for the future learning behind Campbell for a year I just don't think he would offer much year 1.  Would much rather get a guy that could contribute his rookie year and the future.  That said he seems like one of those guys that will have a better pro career than he did college. Oliver at 17 though? This guy is on crack
Sick
Gary has upside and not production. There will also be a DL that has equally high upside and also lots of production. Gary over Oliver, Sweat, or Burns would be awful.
Gary would be the worst pick we could possibly make. I'd rather have a long snapper.
(04-12-2019, 04:49 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Gary has upside and not production. There will also be a DL that has equally high upside and also lots of production. Gary over Oliver, Sweat, or Burns would be awful.

(04-12-2019, 06:06 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Gary would be the worst pick we could possibly make. I'd rather have a long snapper.

I agree with both of you.

At his size and speed, Gary has potential. But as Bill Parcells once said, "Potential is French for 'not yet worth a damn.'"

I want productive players.

I would gladly take Sweat and Williams-among others-before Gary
He'd be the worst pick we could possibly make at 7
Unless Bosa or Q. Williams drop, just take Hockenson. Sweat, Bosa, Oliver and Gary can all be solid players, but I'd rather go with the safest pick in the ENTIRE draft at the position of greatest need.
The guy we drafted last year was all potential no production. At 27th (?) in the first round that's fine. At 7th you should be able to combine the two.
(04-12-2019, 08:16 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]The guy we drafted last year was all potential no production. At 27th (?) in the first round that's fine. At 7th you should be able to combine the two.

Agree
(04-12-2019, 07:28 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless Bosa or Q. Williams drop, just take Hockenson. Sweat, Bosa, Oliver and Gary can all be solid players, but I'd rather go with the safest pick in the ENTIRE draft at the position of greatest need.

My preferences for those reasonably expected to be available at 7:

1.  Sweat
2.  Haskins
3.  Fant
4. Hockenson 
5.  Burns
6.  Taylor
7.  Oliver
(04-12-2019, 11:03 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-12-2019, 07:28 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless Bosa or Q. Williams drop, just take Hockenson. Sweat, Bosa, Oliver and Gary can all be solid players, but I'd rather go with the safest pick in the ENTIRE draft at the position of greatest need.

My preferences for those reasonably expected to be available at 7:

1.  Sweat
2.  Haskins
3.  Fant
4. Hockenson 
5.  Burns
6.  Taylor
7.  Oliver

Its criminal some of those players you have over Oliver
(04-13-2019, 07:28 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-12-2019, 11:03 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]My preferences for those reasonably expected to be available at 7:

1.  Sweat
2.  Haskins
3.  Fant
4. Hockenson 
5.  Burns
6.  Taylor
7.  Oliver

Its criminal some of those players you have over Oliver

Another problem I have with Oliver is the off field stuff.  He got into it with his coach over a jacket.

While getting into it with a coach isn't the same as drugs or violence, I do have concerns about his ability to function without issues here.

If his wearing of a jacket on the sidelines caused issues with his head coach, how would he coexist with Coughlin's rules and fines?

Besides, last year, there were locker room issues that spiraled out of control on this team.  I don't want to risk that.  (Of course I don't know exactly why Sweat was kicked out of Michigan State, so there's that.)

But I  also wonder about his scheme versatility.   In a worst case scenario, the team doesn't turn things around and the coaching staff gets fired.  I question his ability to play in an odd front.  Yes he played some on the nose in college, but I doubt he would have much success at the NFL level at NT.  I wonder if he would have the length to cope with a T

With Sweat's size, length and speed, he can play with his hand on the ground in our scheme, or as a rush backer in a 3-4.  I see Sweat as a bigger Jevon Kearse.  Same with Burns, though I trust him more dropping than Sweat.

Furthermore, except for Haskins, all of the picks represent pressing team needs.  Foles has a record of heavy utilization of TEs in his best years.  However, we have NO viable TEs.  Fant and Hockenson carry first round grades and would immediately upgrade the offense, probably giving the team the best TE in team history..   Taylor plugs in at RT, providing physicality in the run game and good pass protect6for Foles, though he needs to improve against inside counter moves.  We just drafted a guy who functions best at 3 technique in Bryan.  Do you relegate him to the bench after a year?

Then there's Haskins.  Yes we signed Foles, and I love the acquisition.   I think Foles stabilizes the position and, if given sufficient support, can take this team to the playoffs and beyond.  But he IS 30.  My belief is that if you have a starter in his 30s and are in a position to draft a franchise QB, you draft the QB.  While Haskins only has one season of starting experience, he has the physical tools to be a quality starting QB with some seasoning.  With Foles, Haskins would have the ability to sit a year or two and develop.  If you examine the Jaguars most successful QBs (Brunell and Garrard) they had the luxury of developing on the bench for a year or two before becoming full time starters.  If you look league wide, you'll see plenty of the most successful signal callers sat their first season or two.  Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Patrick Mahomes all rode the pines and learned the game under quality vets.  Conversely, if you look at the guy most Jaguars fans feel were busts at QB, all were thrust into starting in their first years before they were ready.  Franchise QBs do more than any other position to make a team a winner.  Properly developed,  Haskins would help this team ,longer term far more than any other player at any other position,  including Oliver.
Well said Bullseye.

If the Jags take Haskins and he develops into a top tier QB, he will consistently take this team to the playoffs as opposed to any other player in this draft.
If Haskins is there, we have to pick him.

You either play him later or you trade him for picks later.
You really trust this front office to get the QB position right? I don't. You show me one successful QB this franchise has ever taken at any point in the 1st RD and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. They're not taking Haskins with the 7th overall pick. It's just not happening. Not after what they've done with Foles and with how they handled Bortles' situation cap wise (they chose to eat the cap hit this year to avoid blurring any lines here about whose the QB moving forward).

Drafting Haskins 7th overall would start a [BLEEP] storm and circus the moment he throws an INT. Especially when we have a lot of issues and needs to address on offense. We need help in pass and run protection. We need help on the outside. We certainly need help in the backfield. Referencing Aaron Rodgers, who rode the pine behind Brett Favre, Tom Brady, who, thanks to an injury saw the field early and may have never been who we've grown to see, and then Mahomes, who was guaranteed to start in 2018 with Alex Smith woefully failing to get a play-off team over the hump is not good enough to justify Haskins there.

Rodgers sat for three long years behind Favre. And those guys you also cited WERE NOT top 10 overall selections with the exception of Mahomes, which, again, he was a starter after just one season. And we knew that was coming with the obvious moves the Chiefs made to get him. 30 also is no longer "30" in today's soft era of football. Foles could probably play another 5+ years if needed.

They have to spend that 7th overall pick on either improving his time in the pocket or by adding a piece on the outside to target. Or, they go defense or trade down. Haskins? No. No thanks. We need instant impact on this team while we have what's left of this defense intact. Next year's QB class is looking a lot more promising any way.
“Don’t take Ben Roethlisberger! We already have Leftwich! You have to put pieces around him!”

“Don’t Draft Mahomes or Watson! We have Blake and he needs pieces!”
(04-13-2019, 10:28 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]“Don’t take Ben Roethlisberger! We already have Leftwich! You have to put pieces around him!”

“Don’t Draft Mahomes or Watson! We have Blake and he needs pieces!”

Again. I could flip this around on you. 

"Take Haskins 7th overall! Foles wins out" Trade Haskins away for a 2nd RD pick in the future. Loss of total value. 

"Take Haskins 7th overall! Foles sucks! No pieces around him! Well, looks like Haskins is also struggling because he's working with the same pieces!". Let's not take Herbert or Fromm in 2020 or maybe Lawrence in 2021!

You really want to keep doing this?...

Leftwich was a mistake to begin with. I remember sitting on the couch at the age of 14 saying "Why the [BLEEP] would they draft this guy when one of his highlights is him being carried downfield with a bum knee?". Wanted Suggs that year. Was looking for the next Tony Brackens. We had him and let him slip on by. 

But we can sit here and keep playing [BLEEP] patty cake all day if you want?
(04-13-2019, 10:28 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]“Don’t take Ben Roethlisberger! We already have Leftwich! You have to put pieces around him!”

“Don’t Draft Mahomes or Watson! We have Blake and he needs pieces!”

Eh if Foles failes, then Caldwell's gotta go.  Which means a new GM who should get to pick his own QB.
Some always fall for the early hype by the media every year like Teddy was.

https://twitter.com/mlombardiNFL/status/...96384?s=19
(04-13-2019, 10:21 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You really trust this front office to get the QB position right? I don't. You show me one successful QB this franchise has ever taken at any point in the 1st RD and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. They're not taking Haskins with the 7th overall pick. It's just not happening. Not after what they've done with Foles and with how they handled Bortles' situation cap wise (they chose to eat the cap hit this year to avoid blurring any lines here about whose the QB moving forward).

Drafting Haskins 7th overall would start a [BLEEP] storm and circus the moment he throws an INT. Especially when we have a lot of issues and needs to address on offense. We need help in pass and run protection. We need help on the outside. We certainly need help in the backfield. Referencing Aaron Rodgers, who rode the pine behind Brett Favre, Tom Brady, who, thanks to an injury saw the field early and may have never been who we've grown to see, and then Mahomes, who was guaranteed to start in 2018 with Alex Smith woefully failing to get a play-off team over the hump is not good enough to justify Haskins there.

Rodgers sat for three long years behind Favre. And those guys you also cited WERE NOT top 10 overall selections with the exception of Mahomes, which, again, he was a starter after just one season. And we knew that was coming with the obvious moves the Chiefs made to get him. 30 also is no longer "30" in today's soft era of football. Foles could probably play another 5+ years if needed.

They have to spend that 7th overall pick on either improving his time in the pocket or by adding a piece on the outside to target. Or, they go defense or trade down. Haskins? No. No thanks. We need instant impact on this team while we have what's left of this defense intact. Next year's QB class is looking a lot more promising any way.

So because the team has missed on QBs before, they should never address the position in the present or future?  Since the Chiefs missed on Todd Blackledge, they shouldn't have taken Mahomes?  Welp, since the Chargers missed on Ryan Leaf, they should have ignored Drew Brees or Phillip Rivers?  You mean to tell me the Colts' history of missing at QB, which includes Art Schlichter, John Elway, and Jeff George should have precluded them from drafting Peyton Manning?  


Your second paragraph-at least the start of it- illustrates why I listed Haskins second.  The resulting controversy surrounding the pick would be overbearing and tiresome until he proved to be worth the pick.  But the opportunity to develop a franchise QB slowly is justification for Haskins.  To me the main reason it isn't justification is if you don't think Haskins has the tools period. 

I do understand the argument for immediate impact for this team.  This team still has a pretty good defense capable of some really good things.  With a still young veteran QB and a few more pieces around him, we can go far with good health.  If we went with more immediate impact players, I  certainly wouldn't complain if we got the picks right.  But I  also believe a properly developed Haskins could give this team the long term stability at QB and other positions.

(04-13-2019, 01:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Some always fall for the early hype by the media every year like Tebow was.

https://twitter.com/mlombardiNFL/status/...96384?s=19

FIFY.
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