Scam of the Century: Scientific Study Destroys Electric Car Debate
If you think you’re saving the environment by driving a Tesla, well, let me let you in on a bit of a secret: You could perhaps emit less carbon if you went with a diesel car.
https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/scam-c...tN4BiNft8Q
(04-24-2019, 03:28 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Scam of the Century: Scientific Study Destroys Electric Car Debate
If you think you’re saving the environment by driving a Tesla, well, let me let you in on a bit of a secret: You could perhaps emit less carbon if you went with a diesel car.
https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/scam-c...tN4BiNft8Q
Not to mention the fossil fuels needed to recharge your electric car when you get home.
Liberals aren't logical people.
Top Gear made this argument about 10 years ago but it was about the Prius and the batteries creating more carbon emissions to mine from Canada, ship to China, and then ship back is all actually worse for the environment.
Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them. The so-called "green energy" is a myth. Whether it's solar power or wind power the energy has to be stored somewhere (batteries) and both lithium and lead-acid batteries are worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels.
It's a dumb argument.
A car that runs on diesel or gasoline is going to produce very similar amounts of CO2 per mile throughout its life no matter where you take it.
But for an electric car, the CO2 per mile has nothing to do with the car itself but with the grid that powers it. That grid can produce less CO2 per kilowatt-hour over time as more solar panels, wind turbines, and energy storage devices are installed.
(04-24-2019, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them. The so-called "green energy" is a myth. Whether it's solar power or wind power the energy has to be stored somewhere (batteries) and both lithium and lead-acid batteries are worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels.
Those are two different problems.
We are not running out of places to store hazardous waste. There are plenty of new places to build new landfills. we have figured out the means to keep the workers safe and keep the bad stuff out of the groundwater.
but we only have one atmosphere and every new molecule of carbon dioxide absorbs extra heat in that atmosphere over the long term.
Fully electric transport will not be truly viable until such time that humans can create a substance that will super-conduct at normal temperatures. Once resistance is removed from electrical theory the possibilities are endless.
(04-24-2019, 04:53 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Fully electric transport will not be truly viable until such time that humans can create a substance that will super-conduct at normal temperatures. Once resistance is removed from electrical theory the possibilities are endless.
Good old Ohm's Theory. That darn resistance is what hinders perpetual motion.
Man Made climate change is a LIE perpetuated by leftist wanting to use it to garner power
(04-24-2019, 04:53 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Fully electric transport will not be truly viable until such time that humans can create a substance that will super-conduct at normal temperatures. Once resistance is removed from electrical theory the possibilities are endless.
Electric transport is available today.
I don't think transport will ever be fully electric. There will always be some gas or diesel vehicles out there.
But you can expect that more people will go electric if fuel prices increase. It's easy to imagine a fuel price where everybody would want an electric car and most people would actually get one.
(04-24-2019, 07:18 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 04:53 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Fully electric transport will not be truly viable until such time that humans can create a substance that will super-conduct at normal temperatures. Once resistance is removed from electrical theory the possibilities are endless.
Electric transport is available today.
I don't think transport will ever be fully electric. There will always be some gas or diesel vehicles out there.
But you can expect that more people will go electric if fuel prices increase. It's easy to imagine a fuel price where everybody would want an electric car and most people would actually get one.
If fuel prices go up and everyone goes electric, there will be more demand for electricity. And since most plants are coal fired, that will mean a higher demand for coal and the price will go up. When the price of electricity goes up, so does the price of charging an electric car so your transportation cost will rise also.
(04-24-2019, 07:33 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 07:18 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Electric transport is available today.
I don't think transport will ever be fully electric. There will always be some gas or diesel vehicles out there.
But you can expect that more people will go electric if fuel prices increase. It's easy to imagine a fuel price where everybody would want an electric car and most people would actually get one.
If fuel prices go up and everyone goes electric, there will be more demand for electricity. And since most plants are coal fired, that will mean a higher demand for coal and the price will go up. When the price of electricity goes up, so does the price of charging an electric car so your transportation cost will rise also.
Shhh don't destroy the illusion.
(04-24-2019, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them.
I agree.
That said, I would definitely like to invest in any company that can turn this dilemma into a benefit but putting such batteries to good use (and have a patent on their invention/discovery)
(04-24-2019, 07:33 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 07:18 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Electric transport is available today.
I don't think transport will ever be fully electric. There will always be some gas or diesel vehicles out there.
But you can expect that more people will go electric if fuel prices increase. It's easy to imagine a fuel price where everybody would want an electric car and most people would actually get one.
If fuel prices go up and everyone goes electric, there will be more demand for electricity. And since most plants are coal fired, that will mean a higher demand for coal and the price will go up. When the price of electricity goes up, so does the price of charging an electric car so your transportation cost will rise also.
Hence the urgency of putting more solar, wind and energy storage on the grid.
Also we have capacity that could be ramped up in natural gas, before we would ramp up coal.
In any case I do agree that if one form of energy increases in price the others will also tend to go up in the short term. Supply and demand.
(04-24-2019, 08:08 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them.
I agree.
That said, I would definitely like to invest in any company that can turn this dilemma into a benefit but putting such batteries to good use (and have a patent on their invention/discovery)
A battery that's no longer viable for powering a car may still be viable for grid energy storage.
(04-24-2019, 03:28 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Scam of the Century: Scientific Study Destroys Electric Car Debate
If you think you’re saving the environment by driving a Tesla, well, let me let you in on a bit of a secret: You could perhaps emit less carbon if you went with a diesel car.
Anyone who says that they're driving a Tesla to save the environment is full of it. They're driving a Tesla because they have more dollars than sense and they want to drive a Tesla.
(04-24-2019, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them. The so-called "green energy" is a myth. Whether it's solar power or wind power the energy has to be stored somewhere (batteries) and both lithium and lead-acid batteries are worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels.
Well, no, that's pretty much totally wrong, but even if we pretend that batteries are the devil, hydrogen fuel cell technology would more than solve that problem. I'd say let's fund it, but when the EPA is totally made of fossil fuel lobbyists, I'll forgive you for having the Trump-level understanding of how energy works.
(04-24-2019, 04:53 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Fully electric transport will not be truly viable until such time that humans can create a substance that will super-conduct at normal temperatures. Once resistance is removed from electrical theory the possibilities are endless.
Not necessarily. It's a critical mass thing, and the reason it won't work in America anytime soon is that it relies heavily on public transit. This country hasn't done all that great a job of setting up public transit systems that can actually take a sizable number of cars off the road. If you can shift most of your commuters over to using public transit for all or part of their journey on a daily basis, you'll get closer and closer to the point where the economic and environmental savings are significant. "A Prius in every driveway" isn't going to do anything but make Toyota shareholders rich.
(04-24-2019, 07:08 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Man Made climate change is a LIE perpetuated by leftist wanting to use it to garner power
...aaaaaaaaaaaand we got there.
(04-24-2019, 04:19 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's a dumb argument.
A car that runs on diesel or gasoline is going to produce very similar amounts of CO2 per mile throughout its life no matter where you take it.
But for an electric car, the CO2 per mile has nothing to do with the car itself but with the grid that powers it. That grid can produce less CO2 per kilowatt-hour over time as more solar panels, wind turbines, and energy storage devices are installed.
(04-24-2019, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them. The so-called "green energy" is a myth. Whether it's solar power or wind power the energy has to be stored somewhere (batteries) and both lithium and lead-acid batteries are worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels.
Those are two different problems.
We are not running out of places to store hazardous waste. There are plenty of new places to build new landfills. we have figured out the means to keep the workers safe and keep the bad stuff out of the groundwater.
but we only have one atmosphere and every new molecule of carbon dioxide absorbs extra heat in that atmosphere over the long term.
Someone apparently didn't read the article. They accounted for differences in the power grids and also factored in the energy used to create the battery.
Also, after that last paragraph given the empirical evidence associated with historical surface temps and the lagging affect of co2 concentration in going to need a picture of this so called engineering degree.
(04-25-2019, 04:16 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 04:19 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]It's a dumb argument.
A car that runs on diesel or gasoline is going to produce very similar amounts of CO2 per mile throughout its life no matter where you take it.
But for an electric car, the CO2 per mile has nothing to do with the car itself but with the grid that powers it. That grid can produce less CO2 per kilowatt-hour over time as more solar panels, wind turbines, and energy storage devices are installed.
Those are two different problems.
We are not running out of places to store hazardous waste. There are plenty of new places to build new landfills. we have figured out the means to keep the workers safe and keep the bad stuff out of the groundwater.
but we only have one atmosphere and every new molecule of carbon dioxide absorbs extra heat in that atmosphere over the long term.
Someone apparently didn't read the article. They accounted for differences in the power grids and also factored in the energy used to create the battery.
Also, after that last paragraph given the empirical evidence associated with historical surface temps and the lagging affect of co2 concentration in going to need a picture of this so called engineering degree.
Power grids change over time and the energy to create the battery comes from the grid.
(04-24-2019, 07:08 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Man Made climate change is a LIE perpetuated by leftist wanting to use it to garner power
i feel sad that your brain has been this badly broken by propaganda
(04-24-2019, 11:57 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 04:03 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that lithium batteries could be very dangerous, then there's the problem of disposing of them. The so-called "green energy" is a myth. Whether it's solar power or wind power the energy has to be stored somewhere (batteries) and both lithium and lead-acid batteries are worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels.
Well, no, that's pretty much totally wrong, but even if we pretend that batteries are the devil, hydrogen fuel cell technology would more than solve that problem. I'd say let's fund it, but when the EPA is totally made of fossil fuel lobbyists, I'll forgive you for having the Trump-level understanding of how energy works.
I did work for a solar company for a while so I think I have a pretty good understanding of how energy works.
(04-25-2019, 07:05 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2019, 07:08 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Man Made climate change is a LIE perpetuated by leftist wanting to use it to garner power
i feel sad that your brain has been this badly broken by propaganda
It's bad that both sides are fooled by the lie of climate change.
The lie is that there's anything we can do about it.
So the left's green initiative and the billions of dollars it creates through BS environmentalism is the lie they perpetuate so they get RICH RICH RIIIIIIICH!
The right's lie is nothing is wrong, go about your business so they continue to get RICH RICH RIIIIIIICH.
Both sides lie to you all (and you all EAT IT UP) and they get rich while you argue on the interwebs.
The truth is climate is cyclical and there ain't nothing a bunch of ape descendants can do about it.