There are two flaws with the Fournette situation. One is what he needs to fix with his run style, and one is with how the Jags need to maximize his skills.
I feel like we have all pigeonholed Fournette too much as "a power back". That is definitely one of his most elite traits, but Fournette does have above average acceleration and can be effective when being decisive on a one cut, or even using a short hop in space. I'm not saying he will ever be Alvin Kamara or anything close to that, but he does not have to be that. Instead of seeking out contact on nearly every run, if he used a little bit wiggle, he could break a few more tackles, take less punishment over the course of the season, and make more big plays.
Also, Fournette actually has pretty decent hands. At LSU he was used as a returner and often was running routes. The Jags have significantly under utilized this option, because Fournette's other elite trait is his top-end speed. So why not try to get him the ball in space or over the top by using wheel routes or deep overs/posts after motioning him out. I would be very surprised if he cannot outrun the LB/Safety they put on him and get some separation over the top. I really hope Deflippo's uses some of this with a more accurate QB.
(05-13-2019, 04:27 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]There are two flaws with the Fournette situation. One is what he needs to fix with his run style, and one is with how the Jags need to maximize his skills.
I feel like we have all pigeonholed Fournette too much as "a power back". That is definitely one of his most elite traits, but Fournette does have above average acceleration and can be effective when being decisive on a one cut, or even using a short hop in space. I'm not saying he will ever be Alvin Kamara or anything close to that, but he does not have to be that. Instead of seeking out contact on nearly every run, if he used a little bit wiggle, he could break a few more tackles, take less punishment over the course of the season, and make more big plays.
Also, Fournette actually has pretty decent hands. At LSU he was used as a returner and often was running routes. The Jags have significantly under utilized this option, because Fournette's other elite trait is his top-end speed. So why not try to get him the ball in space or over the top by using wheel routes or deep overs/posts after motioning him out. I would be very surprised if he cannot outrun the LB/Safety they put on him and get some separation over the top. I really hope Deflippo's uses some of this with a more accurate QB.
As far as asking him to make a cut, hop, or "use wiggle" - I think that is a dubious proposition given what I've seen from him.
He doesn't often make the best decisions in those situations.
I think they will definitely be using him in the passing game. His hands are no secret and everything we are hearing from and about the Flip/Foles combo suggests lots of involvement of backs catching out of the backfield.
Fournette's vision issues, contact decisions, and lack of lateral agility are an uphill battle for the coaching staff. It will be interesting to see how they scheme around that and utilize his straight line speed.
(05-06-2019, 03:17 PM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2019, 12:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just watching some Armstead reels on YouTube and while I understand the narrative that he’s cut in the Fournette one cut and go mold - there are some differences.
Armstead seems to be looking downfield more than looking at the next defender. Perhaps a bit more vision than Fournette in that regard.
The other thing I’m seeing that I really like is his:
A. Decisiveness when he sees a crease and
B. His ability to “get small” when he sees the slightest gap to squeeze through
He doesn’t do the bull in a china shop routine in those spaces. He squeezes through.
Encouraging trait.
After watching some of the games he played in, Armstead to me is a classic "Outside Zone" running back. And I'm not so sure that's a good thing considering this team and their recent approach to the Running Game.
The offense under Hackett with Fournette as the feature was (is?) more Power oriented where they lead with a Fullback to pry open the Defense. Whether or not Fournette's current style of "go to the hole called no matter what!!!" is a result of Fournette' ability or the coaching is up for debate. But what you see from Armstead is a player who reacts to where the hole develops, not where it's called. When you see him stick his foot in the ground and cut back on a LB, that's classic Outside Zone stuff. And where you see him always move forward and fight for yards, a lot of that is classic Zone style as well. "You don't need five yards every time, but you have to get yards every time."
Now, if they plan on making the most out of Armstead, are they going to do more Zone style where the blocking surface is expanded and there is often only one RB in the backfield? Will Fournette adjust to that? Will Armstead adjust to a Power style? I like the kid, but the Staff needs to find the best way to get the most out of the talent that they have.
Fournette ran some zone concepts at LSU. Most utilized a fullback to make the reads easier for him, but it is not totally foreign to him.
(05-13-2019, 04:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2019, 04:27 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]There are two flaws with the Fournette situation. One is what he needs to fix with his run style, and one is with how the Jags need to maximize his skills.
I feel like we have all pigeonholed Fournette too much as "a power back". That is definitely one of his most elite traits, but Fournette does have above average acceleration and can be effective when being decisive on a one cut, or even using a short hop in space. I'm not saying he will ever be Alvin Kamara or anything close to that, but he does not have to be that. Instead of seeking out contact on nearly every run, if he used a little bit wiggle, he could break a few more tackles, take less punishment over the course of the season, and make more big plays.
Also, Fournette actually has pretty decent hands. At LSU he was used as a returner and often was running routes. The Jags have significantly under utilized this option, because Fournette's other elite trait is his top-end speed. So why not try to get him the ball in space or over the top by using wheel routes or deep overs/posts after motioning him out. I would be very surprised if he cannot outrun the LB/Safety they put on him and get some separation over the top. I really hope Deflippo's uses some of this with a more accurate QB.
As far as asking him to make a cut, hop, or "use wiggle" - I think that is a dubious proposition given what I've seen from him.
He doesn't often make the best decisions in those situations.
I think they will definitely be using him in the passing game. His hands are no secret and everything we are hearing from and about the Flip/Foles combo suggests lots of involvement of backs catching out of the backfield.
Fournette's vision issues, contact decisions, and lack of lateral agility are an uphill battle for the coaching staff. It will be interesting to see how they scheme around that and utilize his straight line speed.
I feel like he does it sometimes, but then sometimes he doesn't trust it. Like the Chargers game in his rookie season. When he was decisive he made Perryman and other miss and got few extra yards. When he stutter stepped or just didn't make a decision and go, it allowed the Chargers to size him up and make clean tackle. He doesn't need top 5 in NFL lateral agility to pull this off with his size and power. He just has to react and go.
He definitely has vision issues at times, but I feel that is at least in part due to his habit of just relying on power and lowering your shoulder. By opting for that nearly all the time, he stops being patient and keeping your eyes up and looking for holes to avoid the contact.
Granted by this point, it may be impossible to coach that out him. But I'm hoping that ain't the case.
(05-06-2019, 12:28 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2019, 01:05 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]WOW. Flowers just may be our receiving RB. His hands are wide receiverish to say the least. He can catch a cold in Jamaica during an heat wave. I also like his running abilities.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
I really think Flowers is being slept on around here. So what they have Oliver? Why not have two guys on the field who can do similar things? I’m sure Nick wouldn’t mind. Flowers knows how to find those creases in the zone like nobody’s business and can be a QB’s best friend in the H-Back role while Oliver gets acclimated to the speed of the game.
I Concur BUT we released/cut him.
NH3...
(05-13-2019, 05:41 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2019, 05:21 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]I Concur BUT we released/cut him.
NH3...
I think DeFilippo wants to utilize a move TE (Oliver), an inline TE (Swaim), and keep an H-Back type around as a lead blocker who occasionally mixes it up in the pass game.
Right now, the only guy that
seems to be well suited to that H-Back/FB role is the camp invite they just signed.
Charles Jones II
If you scan through this vid, you'll see him block and catch for Tulane. #84
https://youtu.be/PVI5opzgFYs?t=375
(05-17-2019, 07:49 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]Does Mike Gillislee do anything for you?
Not really.
It seems like they aren’t entirely satisfied with the RB group as of yet. At this point why not just sign Ajayi to a 1 year deal and let the cards fall where they may.
(05-17-2019, 09:42 AM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (05-17-2019, 07:49 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]Does Mike Gillislee do anything for you?
Not really.
It seems like they aren’t entirely satisfied with the RB group as of yet. At this point why not just sign Ajayi to a 1 year deal and let the cards fall where they may.
Ajayi's got a history of being injured, is coming off a torn ACL and isn't a great locker room guy. He might also be looking for a bigger contract than the Jaguars are willing to give, or a bigger role than the Jaguars have available. It seems like they're content to roll with Fournette, Armstead and whatever couple of veteran backs they can find who fit in.
(05-13-2019, 04:37 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-06-2019, 03:17 PM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]After watching some of the games he played in, Armstead to me is a classic "Outside Zone" running back. And I'm not so sure that's a good thing considering this team and their recent approach to the Running Game.
The offense under Hackett with Fournette as the feature was (is?) more Power oriented where they lead with a Fullback to pry open the Defense. Whether or not Fournette's current style of "go to the hole called no matter what!!!" is a result of Fournette' ability or the coaching is up for debate. But what you see from Armstead is a player who reacts to where the hole develops, not where it's called. When you see him stick his foot in the ground and cut back on a LB, that's classic Outside Zone stuff. And where you see him always move forward and fight for yards, a lot of that is classic Zone style as well. "You don't need five yards every time, but you have to get yards every time."
Now, if they plan on making the most out of Armstead, are they going to do more Zone style where the blocking surface is expanded and there is often only one RB in the backfield? Will Fournette adjust to that? Will Armstead adjust to a Power style? I like the kid, but the Staff needs to find the best way to get the most out of the talent that they have.
Fournette ran some zone concepts at LSU. Most utilized a fullback to make the reads easier for him, but it is not totally foreign to him.
I would be very interested to see some of that. I'll go look up some highlight films on him.
Armstead fits gap running much better to me. Very much a "hit the hole and go" guy
(05-18-2019, 10:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2019, 04:27 PM)Oh rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]There are two flaws with the Fournette situation. One is what he needs to fix with his run style, and one is with how the Jags need to maximize his skills.
I feel like we have all pigeonholed Fournette too much as "a power back". That is definitely one of his most elite traits, but Fournette does have above average acceleration and can be effective when being decisive on a one cut, or even using a short hop in space. I'm not saying he will ever be Alvin Kamara or anything close to that, but he does not have to be that. Instead of seeking out contact on nearly every run, if he used a little bit wiggle, he could break a few more tackles, take less punishment over the course of the season, and make more big plays.
Also, Fournette actually has pretty decent hands. At LSU he was used as a returner and often was running routes. The Jags have significantly under utilized this option, because Fournette's other elite trait is his top-end speed. So why not try to get him the ball in space or over the top by using wheel routes or deep overs/posts after motioning him out. I would be very surprised if he cannot outrun the LB/Safety they put on him and get some separation over the top. I really hope Deflippo's uses some of this with a more accurate QB.
What are “deep overs” ?
Same as an over, but deeper.
(05-13-2019, 05:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2019, 05:41 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]
I think DeFilippo wants to utilize a move TE (Oliver), an inline TE (Swaim), and keep an H-Back type around as a lead blocker who occasionally mixes it up in the pass game.
Right now, the only guy that seems to be well suited to that H-Back/FB role is the camp invite they just signed.
Charles Jones II
If you scan through this vid, you'll see him block and catch for Tulane. #84
https://youtu.be/PVI5opzgFYs?t=375
I was more impressed by Flowers than CJII but it's evident that the front office/coaching staff has better knowledge than I do by far.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(05-18-2019, 10:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2019, 04:27 PM)Oh rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]There are two flaws with the Fournette situation. One is what he needs to fix with his run style, and one is with how the Jags need to maximize his skills.
I feel like we have all pigeonholed Fournette too much as "a power back". That is definitely one of his most elite traits, but Fournette does have above average acceleration and can be effective when being decisive on a one cut, or even using a short hop in space. I'm not saying he will ever be Alvin Kamara or anything close to that, but he does not have to be that. Instead of seeking out contact on nearly every run, if he used a little bit wiggle, he could break a few more tackles, take less punishment over the course of the season, and make more big plays.
Also, Fournette actually has pretty decent hands. At LSU he was used as a returner and often was running routes. The Jags have significantly under utilized this option, because Fournette's other elite trait is his top-end speed. So why not try to get him the ball in space or over the top by using wheel routes or deep overs/posts after motioning him out. I would be very surprised if he cannot outrun the LB/Safety they put on him and get some separation over the top. I really hope Deflippo's uses some of this with a more accurate QB.
What are “deep overs” ?
It's a receiving route that's kind of like a combination between a drag and a post.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pub...277230.jpg
Basically you want to get depth in the stem of your route and then cross the field but you kind of round the route off so it's not a sharp cut like a post, the idea is to slip between levels of the defense and find a soft spot in the coverage; a good majority of Keelan Cole's 2017 highlights came on exactly that type of route as it was Bortles' best throw imho. The long TD against Seattle was on that type of route actually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl23A47aGkM
That's the simplest way i can illustrate it.